bear0117 staff complaint

[1glitchycent]

Byond CKEY - 1glitchycent

Discord - shqvelheaded

Game ID: cwD-duua

Synopsis: I was playing SFA, operating my vessel, attempting to find soft targets or potential salvage. I found very little, only a sensor relay. So I decided to revisit the exoplanet the Horizon was last seen orbiting, hoping they would be gone or would have left a shuttle behind. They then contact me and inform me that I am to maintain a 4 grid perimeter. Fair enough. I begin moving north, and accidentally end up within that perimeter due to dust clouds blocking my sensor range. This is kind of an unrelated note, but the Horizon could very clearly see my approach while I could not see their location because all spacecraft BESIDES the Horizon are always visible, even outside of sensor range. So, I turn around as soon as I see them, and they send a Longbow round my way. Logically, I disengage because my crew is not currently prepared for combat. 

I then decide that since I've found little else in the way of loot, and no other offships are present, I am going to try and find a way to retaliate against the Horizon for trying to kill me. So, therefore, I ask an administrator for permission, and explain my circumstances. They tell me that realistically, I would not attack the Horizon, and thus will not attack the Horizon

Overview of why I don't think this makes much sense:

First of all, rules-wise, the general precedent, as I have been told, for offships is that the Horizon has to choose to escalate with YOU first, which is what they did by firing a 406mm howitzer shell at me, with the intent to kill me. After all, they aren't necessarily antagonists, and the Horizon is to engage with them how they see fit. By, again, attempting to destroy the SFA offship, they clearly escalated the situation into a conflict. This should be obvious. 

Then there's Bear's main reason for denying my request, that the SFA Corvette wouldn't attack the Horizon because their odds of victory were low.  This is kind of just a silly statement to make. The Horizon is, for a ship of its size, hilariously undergunned with armor as thick as a corvette's in most parts. Not to mention the fact that they aren't particularly maneuverable. Any time the Horizon tries to roll, there's a fair chance that a dozen or so people end up with popped lungs in medbay. It wouldn't be an easy fight, or an ideal one, but it's certainly possible, especially when the Horizon's main gun is conveniently situated right next to a docking port.

Finally, ignoring that, one should note that the SFA is not exactly composed of people who are rational actors. They have previously been known to bite off far more than they can chew. Take a look at the Gate Massacre for example. That's not something someone interested in long-term sustainability does. Saying that the SFA would not back down from a fight where the odds weren't in their favor is a bit odd, since that's what the SFA has been doing for most of its history. I doubt the people who have CONTINUED to engage in piracy and crime when everyone is out to kill them, in VALLEY HALE no less, would have improved their skills of discernment or general capacity to engage in self-preservation tactics.

Edited Tuesday at 03:55 by 1glitchycent

[1glitchycent]

The main issue, the way I see it, is the first point brought up. The Horizon is allowed to, according to this interaction, fire 406mm howitzer shells at offhips which are forbidden from acting hostile towards it in any way. And then, after this is done, said offships are not permitted to find a way to retaliate. So, not only are offships not allowed to instigate any conflict with the Horizon, they aren't even allowed to respond to conflict instigated BY the Horizon. That needs to be changed. If you fire a howitzer shell at someone, there should be a POSSIBILITY of incurring consequences, even if the Horizon's many mechanical advantages make that chance rather slim. 

[CampinKiller]

@Jasorn and I will be handling this 

[Bear]

As was discussed with other staff in round, we agreed having you antagonize the ship 20 minutes after the Horizon sent you a warning shot towards the back end of the round served little to no point and was not sufficient justification to then re-engage and escalate. Additionally, you are a small barely a frigate, with no supply line, undermanned, and were with little to no crew and no guaranteed resupply or repair. Going against a significantly larger vessel with a full crew compliment and better armaments. If you had engaged them when they fired on you that would be another matter, but even still, a warning shot in comparison to being actively pursued would require scrutiny and logical judgment for a fringe element. Approach it from the IC stance when figuring this out, I'll point out a few things here momentarily. But, you were given a warning shot by a larger and more dangerous vessel to clear their space while they worked. What do you gain from getting into a fight with them beyond likely death or crew casualties, loss of medical supplies, loss of rare repair supplies, loss of rarer and critical ship-based ammo, and loss of return in profit. Do you think a three man party is going to seize the Horizon? Even at best had you managed to best them in the fight, you are at a net loss. There is no logic in the fight to begin with. You were not fighting for your survival, which would have been a different story if they had say, chased after you with the intent to destroy.

2 hours ago, 1glitchycent said:

Any time the Horizon tries to roll, there's a fair chance that a dozen or so people end up with popped lungs in medbay. It wouldn't be an easy fight, or an ideal one, but it's certainly possible, especially when the Horizon's main gun is conveniently situated right next to a docking port.

You would not know this about the ship as a random SFA renegade, nor is this true. The horizon is very maneuverable and dangerous especially when the server population allows for a full and competent helm as the events have shown when combatting much larger and far more dangerous event threats. Retrain your thought process in how you approach the game. Mechanical limitations or silliness should not be your default thought line for justifications. Just because the skrell can red-grab and throw a vaurca bulwark, does not mean they should. 
 

2 hours ago, 1glitchycent said:

They have previously been known to bite off far more than they can chew. Take a look at the Gate Massacre for example

Lore has not and never will be an excuse to bypass server rules be it sanity, escalation, or general rp expectations for characters and antagonist characters including off ship roles.

You are an off ship that may be antagonistic which has stricter expectations and a lot more limitations in comparison to a round antagonist such as a mercenary or a ninja. If you wish to antagonize the server I suggest your ready up at round start to roll as an actual antagonist. There are a lot of options to do solarian-based gimmicks there. I understand it can be frustating to play an off station with your hands tied, but our focus is on the horizon, not 3rd party additions. Those are seasonings on top of the burger, not the meal itself.

That's all I really have to say on the matter, I hope that helps clarify things a bit for you and why we denied your request. Handling staff can ping me if they have any other questions.

[Jasorn]

Bear basically explained it perfectly here, keep in mind as stated during this round Bear even asked staff chat what should be said in this case, multiple mods/admins agreed with this denial to fight the Horizon. The SFA is not meant to be an attacking vessel, except for tiny shuttle or small civilian crafts, getting a giant warning shot toward you and then fleeing at high speeds across the sector is the right play and should be left at that. Coming back multiple times and then wanting to fire back after half the round doesn't really make sense, and might even be seen as not wanting to preserve your character's life. Leaving this open for a day for any further questions, otherwise no wrong doing from Bear here.