Staff complaint - YouJustGotOwened

[Lady_of_Ravens]

BYOND Key: Lady_of_Ravens
Staff BYOND Key: YouJustGotOwened
Game ID: no clue, probably not important
Reason for complaint:
A touch over a week ago (I have been somewhat delayed in posting this) I had an unpleasant interaction with YouJustGotOwened in OOC chat. Logs and context are available below, but the gist of the matter is that I brought up a bit of Aurora history — the fact that it used to be the position of the admin in charge of the Tajara lore (HiveFleetChicken) that Tajara have live scorpions for genitals that literally fight to the death during sex — and he took exception, forbidding any further discussion/mention of the topic. Which, okay, it's shocking, sure, but mostly in an amusing, "I can't believe that was really a thing" sort of way. It certainly isn't a topic worthy of being unilaterally blacklisted.

After the fact I did some checking, just to be sure, and I haven't been able to find any server rule that this topic violates. It also doesn't fall into any of the "unwritten rule" type categories (which totally should be written, btw, but that's neither here nor there). It's not divisive, or illegal, or obscene, or any of the obvious stuff. And there's certainly nothing sexually suggestive about aliens with live scorpions for genitalia. Quite the contrary, in fact, given that this bit of lore seems to have been generated for the specific purpose of being as non-erotic (one might even say anti-erotic) as possible.

So why did YouJustGotOwened forbid the topic? I'm not actually sure. YouJustGotOwened's only justification was that I "do not need to be talking about taj genitalia," which is both technically correct and not an actual reason for anything. Maybe if I had pressed the issue I would have gotten an explanation that amounted to something more substantial than an obvious deflection, or maybe he would have used his authority in a punitive manner. Either way, I would expect an admin acting in their official role to do so based on a clear, well thought out, and logical rational that could be plainly articulated. That really doesn't seem to be the case here. Thus, I'm filing a complaint.

Evidence/logs/etc:
Here is a log of the interactions between myself and YouJustGotOwened on this topic.

Quote

OOC Lady_of_Ravens: Oh, here's a weird bit of nostalgia. Anyone remember the Tajara lore lead who's official position was that Tajara have live scorpions for genitals that fight to the death during sex?
OOC YouJustGotOwened: We're not talking about that in OOC
OOC Lady_of_Ravens: Sure, okay. I didn't mean to break any rules or anything.
OOC Lady_of_Ravens: BTW, if anyone doesn't believe me, search "scorpions" in the aurora forums.
OOC YouJustGotOwened: I did say not to talk about it anymore
OOC YouJustGotOwened: So that does mean not to talk about it at all
OOC YouJustGotOwened:
OOC Lady_of_Ravens: Yeesh, okay.
OOC Lady_of_Ravens: I don't get what the big deal is.
OOC YouJustGotOwened: You do not need to be talking about taj genitalia in OOC, regardless of whatever history there is
OOC YouJustGotOwened: Just think about it for more than a second
Lady_of_Ravens: I don't want to say the wrong thing and be accused of arguing or get banned so I am just going to go for now. Was fun guys. Maybe later.

For the purpose of completeness/transparency, I have also included a log of all OOC chatter during the period of this interaction.

Spoiler

OOC Lady_of_Ravens: Oh, here's a weird bit of nostalgia. Anyone remember the Tajara lore lead who's official position was that Tajara have live scorpions for genitals that fight to the death during sex?
OOC ASmallCuteCat: w h a t
OOC KingOfThePing: cool thing to read in ooc
OOC TheStripes: lets never say that again.
OOC Sparta9002: uhm
OOC Bochka: What the fuck
OOC RandomHomelessGuy: tell me more
OOC KingOfThePing: love it
OOC Tzui5020: Huh?
OOC Lady_of_Ravens: No joke.
OOC TheStripes: lets all hide ooc together
OOC TonesofBones: oh boy
OOC Bochka: I need my daily dose of OOC, Stripes
OOC YouJustGotOwened: We're not talking about that in OOC
OOC PierogiMan: furred shawty bringing the mortal kombat copy to the boing boing sesh
OOC Goolies: Goolies:
OOC N. Komaeda: OOC Goolies: Goolies:
OOC PierogiMan: omg hi gool
OOC Dessysalta: N. Komaeda: OOC Goolies: Goolies:
OOC Lady_of_Ravens: Sure, okay. I didn't mean to break any rules or anything.
OOC Kelnor: she hit the floor, she hit the floor, then shawty got GATALITY
OOC Goolies: kisses pierogi man xxx
OOC Casgam1: it's not even goolies being the weird one this time
OOC Lordnesh: that's not the real Goolies. The real Goolies doesn't play SS13.
OOC Goolies: IM ALLOWED TO GHOST
OOC Sparta9002: that doesn't count
OOC Sparta9002: stinky
OOC Lordnesh: watching people from the shadow realm doesn't count as playing.
OOC ASmallCuteCat: what can be put in "tail accessories" for unathi?
OOC RandomHomelessGuy: nothing afaik
OOC ASmallCuteCat:
OOC SimpleMaroon: only tail cloths/prosthetic tails for taj currently
OOC ASmallCuteCat: ah, alright
OOC ASmallCuteCat: and here i was hoping i could smuggle an entire chocolate cake in my tail accessories
OOC SimpleMaroon: lmao
OOC Sparta9002: use tail as a third hand
OOC Lordnesh: be bug and just have third hand
OOC Sparta9002: b u g
OOC Lady_of_Ravens: BTW, if anyone doesn't believe me, search "scorpions" in the aurora forums.
OOC Casgam1: :dread:
OOC YouJustGotOwened: I did say not to talk about it anymore
OOC YouJustGotOwened: So that does mean not to talk about it at all
OOC YouJustGotOwened:
OOC SimpleMaroon: tomasa brb
OOC Lady_of_Ravens: Yeesh, okay.
OOC Sparta9002: bruh
OOC Lady_of_Ravens: I don't get what the big deal is.
OOC YouJustGotOwened: You do not need to be talking about taj genitalia in OOC, regardless of whatever history there is
OOC YouJustGotOwened: Just think about it for more than a second
OOC Cash7800: average ss13 player
OOC CatsinHD: My burden
OOC Lady_of_Ravens: I don't want to say the wrong thing and be accused of arguing or get banned so I am just going to go for now. Was fun guys. Maybe later.

Additional remarks: I don't actually expect anything to be done based on a single complaint against an administrator who has been around for quite a while, but I also don't appreciate being "Owened" and see no reason to remain silent on the matter. If nothing else, this is provides a record that can be referenced later as required.

Edited yesterday at 06:29 by Lady_of_Ravens
Formatting.

[Owen]

You were not banned for this, you were not given a warning for this, you were not given a note. You were not even bwoinked about this. You were just told to knock it off in OOC, as your logs reveal. There was nothing hostile about this either, though you still apparently do not understand that it is not appropriate to be talking about tajara genitalia in OOC (regardless of the history of the server). You were told to knock it off and then seemingly left acting like I was going to ban you for this if you stayed any longer. 

6 hours ago, Lady_of_Ravens said:

Additional remarks: I don't actually expect anything to be done based on a single complaint against an administrator who has been around for quite a while, but I also don't appreciate being "Owened" and see no reason to remain silent on the matter. If nothing else, this is provides a record that can be referenced later as required.

I am not sure what you expect to be done here. There is no world where you're going to be allowed to discuss genitalia or sexual topics in OOC. This is not an 18+ server, and tajara sex is certainly an 18+ topic. I've got nothing else to say here until the handling staff members take the complaint. 

[CampinKiller]

Myself and @Loorey discussed this.

8 hours ago, Lady_of_Ravens said:

So why did YouJustGotOwened forbid the topic?

We are not an 18+ server, we do not allow the discussion of topics of a sexual nature, especially genitalia (real or fake alien), on the server. It is an obscene topic of discussion, one that I'd daresay should quite obviously not be brought up.

Further, Owen did not even give you a note for this (rather generously, considering the topic of discussion), and we didn't find there to be any issue with his behavior in OOC. The reason he was telling you to not talk about it was pretty clear cut, this was not a nuanced situation at all. 

If there is nothing else, this will be closed in 24 hours.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

Yeah, but is it actually obscene and/or 18+? Nothing I said would fall outside the range of what you might find in a biology textbook, a nature documentary, or (if you prefer a slightly more extreme example that remains below the 18+ bar) shown on an episode of Rick and Morty. Are the reproductive cycles of xenomorphs or tarantula hawks something you would consider obscene or of a "sexual nature"? What about sexual orientation, intersexed people, or other expressions of atypical sexual dimorphism? How about the use of sex-related profanity?

No, seriously, I'm genuinely asking. Because while I wouldn't consider the existence or mention of any of those things to be inappropriate or obscene, I also know that there are a wide variety of cultures and values represented on the internet, and there exist people would consider most (possibly all, though I did try to include at least some items in the list that really should be safe by any standard) of them to be quite objectionable. So while you can say that it's obvious or clear cut, the truth is that it's actually not. If it was obvious, I would never have brought the subject up in the first place.

Which really is what my objection here is about. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with a server having a rule forbidding the discussion of anything of a "sexual nature", though some further specificity really is needed there. What isn't cool is expecting players to follow undefined rules based on the unknown cultural standards of some subset of the admin/mod population. Or well defined rules that are well known and agreed upon among the entirety of the staff but which are undisclosed and so can only be guessed at or inferred from observed judgements.