Nikov's Head of Staff Application

[Nikov]

BYOND key:

Nikov

Character names:

Manfred Hayden

 

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How long have you been playing on Aurora?:

I began playing on Aurora in June or July of this year. I have played SS13 since Baystation was created by the Bay12 community. Over time I have tempered and developed my play style to progressively more serious roleplaying servers, although I have been a heavy roleplayer on other media for over a decade.

Why do you wish to be on the whitelist?:

Manfred Hayden has, on other servers, won praise as a Chief Engineer for several years now. As there is a lack of Chief Engineers, and Manfred has developed into the role so much over time, I wish to offer his services in this capacity.

Why did you come to Aurora?:

Recent history only. After TG's low-roleplay began to bore me and servers like Hypatia and BestRP/UnboundTravels (their Starbound community was first-class)/Aphelion deteriorated for their own reasons, I began playing on Aurora. I found everything agreeable and suiting my tastes save the whitelist applications, which sent me briefly to Aphelion while that lasted. I am now returning and see the need to put Manfred in his customary job.

Have you read the BS12 wiki on the head roles you plan on playing?:

Yes. I even wrote an in-game book that was added to the HoP's guide. I was a Head of Personnel and Captain from time to time back then, and may resume those roles after building a character up to it.

 

The Five Points of Human Resources Management

The Head of Personnel can be a rather varied job. He can savour the prestige or feel shackled to the ID computer. If you find yourself wearing teal, make the most of it by doing your job correctly.

Support the Captain. Be sure to work as a team to lead the crew. Earn this trust by making frequent use of command chat (:c) and deferring to him on matters of great importance, like assigning new heads or calling the shuttle. You do not outrank the other heads, but you have the unique position of being able to assign people. You are the one who will take over should the Captain need to step down, so it'd be a good idea to look like a good leader in front of him.

Uphold the Rights of Crewmen. Security often commits excesses and the Captain is either dead or personally involved in a case. Rarely, you will be forced to do the impromptu job of a pseudo-Captain and make difficult decisions about the fate of a crewman should the Captain be missing, dead, or personally involved. In these situations, remember to consider every side of the story before making a decision and try to follow Corporate Regulations while still giving out a fair sentence. Almost always, a weak Captain and Head of Personnel will result in bad Security.

Follow the Principle of Least Privilege. When assigning new access levels or creating new jobs, ask yourself just how much access is really needed to perform the task. If a hardworking engineer wants EVA access, consider if he really needs access, or just for you to open the door for him while he gets a suit. If the Counselor is being proactive about finding bodies but often needs people to open doors, maybe the risk of giving him more access is less than gain from increasing his effectiveness. Decisions like these keep the station more secure and cuts down on the number of accidental arrests made by Security for assumed trespassing. Remember to write their increased access or privileged items on a sheet of paper and give it a good stamping so the Janitor will be able to show why he's mopping the Medbay floors.

Talk to the Crew. The Captain is often too busy dealing with who knows what. The Head of Security is usually trying to keep his department in check. The Research Director is on fire, the Chief Medical Officer is up to his elbows injured people, and the Chief Engineer is trying to keep everyone warm and breathing in a vacuum. You're really the only Head able to take time and listen to the crew. Invite crewmen to talk to you when there are conflicts. Defuse the interpersonal and interdepartmental problems you discover during these conversations, and prevent grievances from becoming grief. Advocate on behalf of the beaten to security, and generally reduce the frequency and intensity of mutinies.

Manage your Department First. While technically you can demote everyone who's ID you seize to Assistant, managing civilian workers not under another head is your immediate responsibility. Keeping janitors on task, directing the Chef to throw a pizza party, and getting the records up to date are the first thing to do after assigning job and access changes. Demoting bad Security Officers or stepping in for an absent department head also falls on your desk, but going into other departments to micromanage in front of their head is both bad form and likely to make you reviled. Always clear a demotion with their department head, or ideally, have all the heads aware they can send troublesome employees your way to be sent to the mining base. This lets you focus on your immediate underlings and avoid stepping on toes.

 

It may still be in the databases somewhere with my pen to it, written in-character while sitting at the ID computer. Manfred since retreated to Engineering almost exclusively.

 

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Please provide well articulated answers to the following questions in a paragraph each.

Give a definition of what you think roleplay is, and should be about:

Roleplaying is assuming the personality, motivation, knowledge and flaws of a character and engaging in a collaborative storywriting experience with other roleplayers. I say storywriting because in SS13, in particular, I've found every great round is like a good science-fiction short story. There were things you did and people you spoke to, objects you noticed and bits of information you learned, that finally aligned in the final moments of terror like tumblers in a lock, opening some great experience.

As you have requested a paragraph I am obliged to keep this brief, however the following was posted by myself on another server and describes my unvarnished point of view on roleplaying characters and their responsibility to the shared story. It isn't precisely topical to this server, but I think it is pretty damn telling.

 

The fundamental question is this: is Colonial Marines a server where we play a top-down shooter and roleplay while we do so, or is it a server where we roleplay and play a top-down shooter while we do so? A number of players view this as a military roleplaying server, others a survivor horror roleplaying server, and still others just go to get their combat on. I wish to speak to this question.

I can understand all of these as valid ways to enjoy the server, but those who exclusively roleplay and those who exclusively fight are working at cross purposes. Joke characters with four-foot purple beards and lime green eyes making Dwarf Fortress references detract from the game of the grizzled veterans and wide-eyed recruits. Likewise, the 'non-combatant' medic refusing to draw a weapon all round and sobbing in the corner is leaving a hole in the line of the stalwart Marines. It needs to be decided which of these two extremes is preferred on the server; I have my suspicions a hardcore roleplayer who is terrible at combat is preferred by the administration, but may be unappreciated by a large group of the player base.

I play as a squad leader and have to be aware of the sort of players the dice give me. Sometimes I get combat-happy rambos with no interest in orders. These people run off from the squad and find somewhere to shoot aliens. Other times I get roleplay-intensive screwballs who I emphathize with but would really like to stop playing General Hospital in the FOB chapel and start treating his squad on the line. Fundamentally, however, the fobbit is writing a story, even if its the story of how much his squad leader thinks he's a waste of radio bandwidth. However, the out-of-character fighter is not writing a story. He is, at best, the guy who died at 5:21 in the D-Day scene in Saving Private Ryan. Don't remember him? He's waaaaay back in the shot, out of focus, an extra who tripped on an extension cord next to craft services. He was never in-character and his death just adds to a general atmosphere.

The ideal player, however, is a good gameplayer and good roleplayer who's character is a believable Marine. There are some snowflake characters; combat princesses as opposed to combat studs. One's cigar chewing bravado I can believe, one has a very dangerous hairstyle to wear around airlock machinery. There are believable archetypes of all sorts for the learning or casual roleplayer to fit into. Its not that much to ask that the fighters roleplay fighters, not clowns with RPGs.

But what about aliens? The story is never about them. They are the round's antagonist, the monster off-screen, the source of conflict. They exist to push the story that the Marines write. Nobody has written a character dossier about Drone (442)'s slow and steady evolution into a wise and respected queen. A player might have a one-off story about the time they snuck a Hunter into surgery and protected unborn embryos with bloody zeal, and that's well and good. Its roleplaying. But in the end Hunter (541) and Larva (352) are lost in anonymity and only the nurse and wounded Marine who burst into the room to clear them out will have a nod and a wink next round. The game's mechanics and human nature do not lend to memorable stories being written about the expendable and unnamed xenomorphs. All we humans care about are individuals with names who we can relate to; faces and not the faceless.

You can see this in all the classic science fiction. Starship Troopers is about soldiers in nuclear armed armor dropping on planets to lay waste to a nameless, faceless horde of bugs (the communist North Koreans and Chinese). The story is about soldiers struggling against the tyrannical and faceless threat the author saw in Communist expansion. The Forever War is about soldiers in nuclear powered armor landing on planetoids orbiting collapsars to fight a frighteningly capable force of nameless, faceless clones (the North Vietnamese Army). The story is about soldiers returning from relativistic conflict to see the homefront they fight for change into something unrecognizable each time as the author saw after Vietnam. Watch Aliens. The story is protecting a surrogate mother and child from the personification of rape and violence. The characters are human, the antagonist is something Other, and the story is preserving humanity over that otherness.

So here we are. What is the story of a Colonial Marines round? What is humanity fighting for? Survivors? They're killed or stuffed away as minor characters. The corporate liason? Entirely unsympathetic, an antagonist in and of himself. The commander's pride? They're frequently mutinied against. Vainglory? The old German expression for Iron Cross-seeking fools, "sore throat"?

I humbly posit that our story is one of men-in-arms fighting for their brothers-in-arms against the perfect enemy. There are no atrocities save what we inflict upon ourselves, because the alien is amoral. There are no excesses of violence against the enemy, because the conflict is total. As a perfect enemy it does not exist to emerge victorious. It exists to threaten defeat, which humanity will deserve only by its failings, its infighting, its incompetence, its pettiness.

Because of this, when you design and play your Marine, ship's doctor or survivor, bear in mind that the onus of writing each round's story is on you. If you are bad at combat make your character bad at combat in a believable sense. You're the recruit, you're the replacement, you're the butterfingered greenhorn. Better still, take a non-combat role. Likewise if you're good at something capitalize your character around that strength, but still in a believable way. Fight the urge to Mary Sue. Stress out, lose your cool, break down when the pretty face in the squad gets smeared across the wall.

But when you're an alien remember; you're there to be the antagonist. You're there to threaten defeat, to bring out emotion, to challenge the enemy commander's grip on his platoon and test the bonds of loyalty between the abducted squad leader and the squadmates behind him. Don't metagame or powergame. Game-master. Make your nests terrifying and organic, not checkerboards of doors and resin nests. Emote over your captives. Pile them in dark rooms filled with gore and burst hosts. Toy with your victims. Wound, infect, encircle. Smash the lights and growl from the darkness, instead of pouncing and severing their head. Use the pretty one for bait and leave the decapitated body of the purple-bearded idiot to be found in a pile of blood.

You will find this far more rewarding, I promise you.

 

What do you think the OOC purpose of a Head of Staff is, ingame?:

The OOC purpose of a Head of Staff is to provide a safeguard, a fallback and an example. As a safeguard, good heads of staff recognize powergaming or metagaming by their subordinates and attempt to reduce its damage in-character. For example, the Head of Security might notice his officers jumping to conclusions about the round type based on metagame information and then strive to downplay that information, both subtly reprimanding a metagamer and encouraging others to engage in better play. As a fallback, a head of staff covers for holes in his department's staffing to ensure the station as a whole can continue to function. For example, a chief engineer with only engineers will set up atmospherics. No station would start its shift without someone to manage the air supply, and the fallback covers for this OOC error. As an example, heads of staff interact frequently with subordinates while in a position of power and need to be dutiful leaders, encouraging a high standard of play through their own actions.

What do you think the OOC responsibilities of Whitelisted players are to other players, and how would you strive to uphold them?:

A whitelisted player must play to a higher standard to maintain the respect of those not so privileged, both in actual roleplaying and obedience to the rules. They need to be guides to new players in the community and provide stability to the community. I will work to these ends, and in particular, enjoy taking in new Engineers and teaching them the game mechanics while in-character, making it a simultaneous example of roleplaying.

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Please pick one of your characters for this section, and provide well articulated responses to the following questions.

Character name:

Manfred Hayden

Character age:

42

Please provide a short biography of this character (approx 2 paragraphs):

A native-born Martian, Hayden grew up inside a Thyssen-Krupp hematite mine. Learning technical skills as an apprentice mine electrician at the young age of twelve, by maturity Manfred had developed a practical knowledge of mine operations that put him in supervisor positions over newly arrived Earth college graduates, whos' degrees and classroom learning cost more than a few lives in the unpleasant and imperfect conditions of Mars' tunnel complexes. After catching a few executive's eyes (precisely why being a secret he is not privy to), he began to be groomed for bigger and better things with formal management training and the tacit goal of creating a "bootstraps" success story to manage the often troubled mine labor force.

His career with Thyssen-Krupp came to an abrupt end following strikes and violence that spread across Mars in his mid-twenties. Hayden had been the protégé of one of the executives implicated in the scandal, although he personally attests no fault in the matter. Technically trained but lacking prospects within Thyssen-Krupp, Hayden enlisted in the Martian Espatier Corps and was quickly placed into the Engineering department. Following two one-year orbital tours aboard a cruiser, then-Corporal Hayden had spent thousands of off-watch hours learning other roles aboard the ship and expanding his education into the neglected liberal arts. His broad understanding of ship's systems and formal management training made him Chief Engineer's Mate, 1st Class for the M.E.C.'s most infamous vessel; the MES - Scharnhorst.

The Scharnhorst was one of humanity's first interstellar warships. Accordingly it was also sub-luminal. Following orders which remain classified, the Scharnhorst began her burn, accelerated to a sizable fraction of the speed of light, and began her deceleration centuries later. Aboard the Scharnhorst, only twenty years passed; outside much of the Second Space Age slipped away to special relativity. Hayden managed the ship's elaborate maintenance schedule, learned from his superior, argued mess-hall theology and read the Western canon for two decades. By the time the Scharnhorst reached her destination and slipped into a high polar orbit above her target world, humanity had achieved the superluminal Bluespace drive and very surprised, yet human, ships were over the planet. What occurred at that time remains a Nanotrasen secret, but Manfred Hayden soon found himself without a career in a naval force which had been dissolved generations prior.

As the product of nearly thirty years of continuous on-the-job training, and having superseded his superior officer to serve as Chief Engineer during the final years of the cruise, Hayden was quickly picked up by Nanotrasen along with many of his crewmates. He has not, however, fully adjusted to life outside of the strange sub-culture which fermented on his ship for twenty years, nor was that life kind to him. The nuclear salt-water drive that pushed him across the stars inflicted radiological cancer upon his superior and mentor aboard the Scharnhorst before wracking Manfred as well, and he was compelled to sign into Nanotrasen's payroll for the promise of full medical services.

What do you like about this character?:

I like his, apparent, mastery of his field. Manfred knows everything about Atmospherics and most anything about the rest of the engineering bay, which is appealing to me. He was an engineer before I even considered my current career (systems engineer) and occasionally I "what would Manfred do" when its -14 Fahrenheit and I need to test something on an engine in an outdoor lot, or wrangling the plumbing in my basement with a twelve-pound thread cutter. The answer is grit my teeth and get it done. I like his bold, assertive character. He was first drafted up when I was a much younger man and aged ahead of me, and in an odd way became an inspirational figure from my own fiction. I'm going to shut up now because I sound psychotic to myself.

What do you dislike about this character?:

I dislike the ways in which he is a broken man. He never had the things I took for granted and can never gain the things I love. He has no country, no family, no wife, no children. He is as an Athenian driven from Athens in the Persian war. He had a ship and his oar to row, and pulled for those beside him in the trireme. But now any glories he wins will be forgotten, his body unburied, his death unwept for. He is something that I would fear to be, in spite of how successful he might appear to be. He is a tragic hero putting himself together after the third act has dismissed him, and I think that makes him a powerful character to play. Often times I would want to interact with someone in a way I can't with Hayden because of his nature. He tends to offend people I would rather not offend, but I cannot help it. Take Katelynn McMullen. I would like roleplay with that character but Manfred has fouled things up so completely IA directed her not to talk to him after she feigned suicide in front of him and boiled up some bad memories of his Chief Engineer doing the same when tormented in his death agonies. He can forgive her for ignorance, but is setting himself up to be hurt further. It would be interesting for Manfred to become a Head of Staff, actually, since they'd be pushed together.

What do you think makes this character fit to be a head of staff?:

Manfred's specific training and education provides the job requirements, but being a head of staff is as much interpersonal as understanding the game mechanics in one's department. Manfred has created interesting roleplay for his subordinates for many years now. Sometimes he simply enforces a hardhat policy, other times he calls the entire department into his office for pay distribution (making them sign a paper denouncing the suspected revolution, on one occasion), and other times he slaps his hands together, calls a few engineering interns into a room, and goes through a depressurization-and-you orientation. The HoP didn't like that one, but damn it, that intern cracking in a perfectly safe environment would have died in an actual hazard. And that's how he is; very hard, very practical, very much a career Navy man and a Chief Engineer. He is concerned about his subordinates' feelings plenty, but won't hesitate to remove, kindly or unkindly, someone who can't do the job and won't stand to be trained. Some of his traits as a subordinate shift when he becomes a leader. He himself puts on a mask for the leadership role, somewhat tempering his personality in response to his higher responsibilities. This is an element of his formal training.

 

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Please provide well articulated answers to the following questions.

How would you rate your own roleplaying?:

My roleplaying is the product of well over a decade of practice. Specifically in SS13 I could stand to improve my non-verbal presence, as I often rely on in-game actions and not emotes as much as I do in other media. However I do not often hear complaints, and do often hear praise, from other players. In particular I have earned some high praise recently as an antagonist for pulling my victims in and along, rather than the more prudent course of destroying them. I am not infallible but certainly wish to be as good as I can be and made a mistake or two when I first joined the server, but have since felt out the environment and play accordingly.

 

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Extra notes:

Manfred's background story may raise eyebrows but should not raise issues. It deliberately weaves into Aurora's lore somewhat loosely, as he has existed across a great many SS13 servers. I make it a point not to give dates or specifics during an in-character conversation in order to keep things fluid enough to mesh with whoever I am speaking with, and even passed Hypatia's rather strict inspection. Specific dates can float easily and special relativity is a universal constant. Manfred's tragedy of sailing to a forgotten and unneeded war shapes the character, however, and plays into a classic science fiction convention of sub-light travel. Halderman's The Forever War was a major inspiration for this element. Lastly, his military background is in a form of space navy as an engineer.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Guest

[TechnoKat]

Looks like a well-headed player. Everything is written nicely(and long) with some points I agree. Just looks like a copy n' paste in some ways.. Dunno really.

Giving my endorsement.

[nbielinski]

Good day ladies and gentlemen,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but off the bat I need to say I would like you to consider taking more time in engineering roles before going for Chief Engineer. I will tell you why, before you nail me to the forums with big blunt rusty nails. My main reason is the general lack of actual IC showing of his abilities. Now I will state firmly that I have conferred with other engineers and Chief Engineers who state that Mr. Hayden seems lacking in his abilities as an engineer, or atmos tech, whichever flavor you chose. Secondly as I recall I have seen your character in security roles that require at least a bit of training and practice in a law enforcement academy, meaning that he is both trained in security and engineering yet has the training to be a Head of Staff for one of those departments, which is to me, a bit suspect considering his age. Regardless we come to my last fears, firstly is your position on Chief Engineers, the quote, unquote, "Lack of them." That you stated seems to exist, now the problem with such a preposition is that a lack of Engineering heads is a problem, when indeed any engineer should be able to fill the roll of CE.

And my final fear is the new map change, as we all know it will include not only a super matter engine but a reworked atmospheric system that relies on the atmosphere from the planet being formatted for station wide consumption. These are two rather complicated tasks that engineers and atmospheric techs even at the apprentice level will need to learn. So a show of skill and ability will be needed enough to where experienced engineering staff are able to state that you are worthy of Chief Engineer. As per your application, I find it might be best suited if you were applying for Head of Security but the Chief Engineer requires more than the promise of experience.

In short, I oppose.

[Witt]

Good day ladies and gentlemen,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but off the bat I need to say I would like you to consider taking more time in engineering roles before going for Chief Engineer. I will tell you why, before you nail me to the forums with big blunt rusty nails. My main reason is the general lack of actual IC showing of his abilities. Now I will state firmly that I have conferred with other engineers and Chief Engineers who state that Mr. Hayden seems lacking in his abilities as an engineer, or atmos tech, whichever flavor you chose. Secondly as I recall I have seen your character in security roles that require at least a bit of training and practice in a law enforcement academy, meaning that he is both trained in security and engineering yet has the training to be a Head of Staff for one of those departments, which is to me, a bit suspect considering his age. Regardless we come to my last fears, firstly is your position on Chief Engineers, the quote, unquote, "Lack of them." That you stated seems to exist, now the problem with such a preposition is that a lack of Engineering heads is a problem, when indeed any engineer should be able to fill the roll of CE.

And my final fear is the new map change, as we all know it will include not only a super matter engine but a reworked atmospheric system that relies on the atmosphere from the planet being formatted for station wide consumption. These are two rather complicated tasks that engineers and atmospheric techs even at the apprentice level will need to learn. So a show of skill and ability will be needed enough to where experienced engineering staff are able to state that you are worthy of Chief Engineer. As per your application, I find it might be best suited if you were applying for Head of Security but the Chief Engineer requires more than the promise of experience.

In short, I oppose.

 

I have to agree with nibbles. Sorry for now its -1

Alos, on a mildly unrelated note; you do not need to copy your biography into your Gen records.

[Nikov]

First, I do not play Security. The RnG put me in the security role for a single round last night. I declined an offer to respawn deciding to play it out for a change of pace. I see now that I should have done so. His age is not unusual. A 42 year old Chief Engineer is not uncommon with ability. Twenty years is enough time to rise in the ranks, particularly having started in an old-world apprenticeship.

Second, "taking more time in Engineering roles". I have played an Atmos Tech or Engineer or Chief Engineer for multiple years now across multiple servers, and being a Station Engineer isn't a job I usually take. Engineers appear to be much more common than atmospheric techs, and atmospherics is perhaps the most complicated and critical system on the station. I have worked where I can do the most good, and engage in "Engineering" work when Chief or a Tech. But this seems beside the point. Being a a Chief Engineer for two years following the loss of his senior, it is unlikely Nanotrasen would ask him to prove his abilities afresh. There might be tests, or letters of recommendation from his old crewmates, but in character, I don't understand the reasoning. Individual characters not seeing his abilities is the result of how a round progressed. You can find other Chief Engineers who would endorse me.

So far as a lack of Chief Engineers, yes. There is no chief engineer this round and there tends not to be. I want to fill the role, same as anyone else who asks for a whitelist. I have played hundreds of hours as a Chief Engineer on supermatter collector, supermatter TEG, and singularity engine stations. I have constructed TEGs from scratch, built new rooms, flag them as areas with the blueprints, powered and lit them with airlock permissions and atmospheric connections. I have constructed houses on the mining outpost with self-contained airlocks. I have installed remote door bolts for Security lobbies. I have even devised and implemented a self-governing supermatter TEG arrangement that bleeds excess pressure on the hot line into the waste radiators to lower the injected gas temperature and automatically regulate a supermatter's power output. You ask if I can manage to rig an atmospherics network, I've done so and taught a current Chief Engineer the finer points of atmospherics before she became a Chief Engineer.

You say I should apply for Head of Security, this is based on a misunderstanding of my character brought about by only one round as evidence. I cannot agree. If you think I am more likely to pass for a Head of Security than a Chief Engineer, then I do not think your understanding of my character is accurate at all.

Witt, his employment record was in the middle of being re-written into a psychologist's approval-to-hire letter when the round ended and I lost my work after an hour.

[nbielinski]

You've failed to notice the focus of my post, it is not debating what you have done or your experience in the 10 years of roleplay, my statement is that your attitude is lacking for a Chief Engineer. The entirety of your post gives off to me, and at least one to two others, the vibe of those copy pastas that state, "I am a navy seal, etc. etc." I am honestly not sure if there is a word for it but flashing yourself as experienced is not as good as actually having someone vouch for your experience. Now I am not speaking as a singular here, I've taken a firm outlook on the opinions of several of the best engineers on the server, individuals who have said they can do what you say, and have actually done it. And they agree that this application shouldn't be passed as of yet. And to conclude, your statement about teaching a, "Current Chief Engineer" seems to reek of the same air, atmospherics can be played a thousand different ways by a thousand different people, telling an individual a few points in atmospherics is no large task. As it stands many of the current Chief engineers are less than valid in general, which I why I must put my foot down because one too many remarks that they know better simply by being a Chief engineer and seem to lead in the same way.

"I have this job therefore I am allowed to boss you around." Sort of vibe, it is an air of arrogance and unwillingness to show progression due to having made their whitelist app and have it passed through. But, as of right now you've informed me that others will vouch for you and inform us that you are indeed worth being pushed up the ranks of engineering to CE, I, and indeed the rest of the community, will have to see them come forth in order to take that statement to heart.

[Guest]

Some projection and hostility up in here. Whoof.

I've played with Hayden on a few occasions now. Once when playing off him as a Nuke Op. He pretty smoothly made my philosophical anarchist security officer a tidy little deal to smuggle him off station on the abandoned operative shuttle. It was a dynamic and fun interaction that both surprised me (the fella didn't even shove an e-gun up my ass, what gives?) and opened up a lot of opportunity for roleplaying with Hayden down the line.

He's got a wonderfully unique backstory that Hayden's rightfully reluctant to pass around. He's got a strong grasp of what makes playing an antagonist entertaining and compelling. And putting him in a head of staff role would let him push forward that same kind of entertaining training, character conflict, unique job roles, tasks ...

I'm rambling a bit, but the gist of it is that I very much enjoy playing with Hayden. I'd love to see Nikov make more characters in general, but Hayden works amazingly as an antagonist, and hasn't made me feel a lick of salt so far. Similarly, I'd love to see him in a command role, despite not having any characters in engineering to play off of him super-regularly. Yet.

If I could give a +2, I'd do it. But since I can't, hey. Got my +1.

[Nightmare]

I generally don't post on whitelist apps, but I have to strongly agree with Nibbles. Knowledge of the department itself aside, I feel that heads of staffs need to be good leaders. I just don't see Manfred as the leadership type.

[Nikov]

You have not seen him with the opportunity to lead, or assume the attitude he assumes when leading. He did, however, lead his nuke ops team with patience and an overwhelming attempt to help the poor new guy. If you want to assess his leadership abilities, watch how he responds when told to take charge of a problem. Mytz has worked under him in this respect exceedingly well.

[Tainavaa]

I didn't plan on posting here but I have to say to Nibbles and Nightmare; I think you're both a bit misguided.

Nightmare, being a good head DOES mean you have to be a good leader yes, but is the leadership cap capped at Manfred's ability to lead, or Nikov's ability to lead? And is it so low (as this is a game and we're not expecting actual managers to be playing the managerial roles) that he should be barred from it?

Nibbles though. I find some "discrepancies" in your points against him. Namely in conferring with "best engineers" and the like. When you confer with the best engineers you confer with people who have memorized step-by-step guides. So what does that really mean? Not much, to be honest. It takes a short while to learn engineering and wiring and anything you can't do is easily found on the wiki. What is the one section of engineering you can't find a step-by-guide guide on? Atmospherics. If Manfred knows one thing, it's atmospherics. Is it more or less than any of the "best engineers"? I don't know really, but that's not relevant. What matters is that he knows it. We don't expect heads of staff to know a bunch of secrets of the department; especially not right off the bat. There are also people who simply don't give a fuck about the secrets. Do you think every research director should know how to powergame research and development to be a research director? I don't, I expect a research director to be able to RP managing a research team and essentially being the supervisor, stepping in wherever they're needed.

We expect heads of staff to facilitate fun and roleplay, ultimately. I think the two head positions that are the most difficult to qualify for are Research Director and Chief Engineer for the simple virtue of the atmospherics learning curve; for both the atmospherics department, and toxins. If competence is your concern, then the one thing you need to worry about is his knowledge in atmospherics. If he's got a grasp on atmospherics then he can probably learn the rest of engineering fairly easily.

Another thing that rubs me the wrong way is "best engineers". It isn't difficult to be a good engineer (assuming a good engineer is one that simply knows their job's mechanics very well). I do see your point on heads having a "I'm the boss that means I can boss you around" mentality but something very common I see that ruins rounds for people, is nepotism. Engineering has, by far, the most camaraderie of any department I've seen but I've also seen where that strong camaraderie can end up. Chief engineers relying only on their favorites for jobs, leaving everyone else in the dust. I feel that some of your "best engineers" are guilty of this and I can only ask; are they, then, not worthy of their whitelist? If these "best engineers" ARE guilty of this, then their opinions and views very well could be skewed vastly by virtue of their mentality. That means that these best engineer sources are unreliable and should not be used because then it's a simple matter of popularity. After all, these aren't popularity contests.

[Nikov]

As for player ability to lead, at fear of sounding like a copy-paste Navy Seal, I won't go further than saying I've run a number of roleplaying guilds in the past, one of which being a real pillar on an MMO's server. I lost the time for it, sadly.

[Nightmare]

Yes, there is player leadership and character leadership. Are we not talking about Character leadership? Because clearly the character that would be CE is Manfred. Do I think Nikov could be a good leader? No clue, do I think that Manfred could? As far from what ive seen no. So it really depends on if we're giving whitelist to the player or the character to me.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Guest

[Witt]

I didn't plan on posting here but I have to say to Nibbles and Nightmare; I think you're both a bit misguided.

Nightmare, being a good head DOES mean you have to be a good leader yes, but is the leadership cap capped at Manfred's ability to lead, or Nikov's ability to lead? And is it so low (as this is a game and we're not expecting actual managers to be playing the managerial roles) that he should be barred from it?

Nibbles though. I find some "discrepancies" in your points against him. Namely in conferring with "best engineers" and the like. When you confer with the best engineers you confer with people who have memorized step-by-step guides. So what does that really mean? Not much, to be honest. It takes a short while to learn engineering and wiring and anything you can't do is easily found on the wiki. What is the one section of engineering you can't find a step-by-guide guide on? Atmospherics. If Manfred knows one thing, it's atmospherics. Is it more or less than any of the "best engineers"? I don't know really, but that's not relevant. What matters is that he knows it. We don't expect heads of staff to know a bunch of secrets of the department; especially not right off the bat. There are also people who simply don't give a fuck about the secrets. Do you think every research director should know how to powergame research and development to be a research director? I don't, I expect a research director to be able to RP managing a research team and essentially being the supervisor, stepping in wherever they're needed.

quote]

At no point, did Nibble say he "conferred with the best Engineers", what he said was he talked with other Engineer and CE players. and as one of said Engineer players, I have to say that nibble fairly adequately articulated both his thoughts and the thoughts of other. That being that Manfred as a character is not one that is ideally suited for CE. does that mean the player himself should not get a whitelist? Generally no; however based on by review of his application and the extremely limited time ive seen Manfred ( I assume your only character) on and playing. I still say no because Manfred feels like he is a personification of you and more importantly, because you only just came here and to be frank you haven't given us enough time to observe both you and your character(s) to make up our opinions

 

We expect heads of staff to facilitate fun and roleplay, ultimately. I think the two head positions that are the most difficult to qualify for are Research Director and Chief Engineer for the simple virtue of the atmospherics learning curve; for both the atmospherics department, and toxins. If competence is your concern, then the one thing you need to worry about is his knowledge in atmospherics. If he's got a grasp on atmospherics then he can probably learn the rest of engineering fairly easily.

 

As for the He knows Atmos, ergo he is qualified to be CE; I have to say that is quite silly, I personally know of a couple of our more common CEs who don't know atmos at all. As for knowing atmos, it is more than knowing what levers to turn on, its about knowing the ebb and flow its about seeing new ways to make it work. From what I have seen, Manfred knows his one way to atmos, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, and part of being a team player and a leader is learning to see others ways and ideas.

So, let me paraphrase and give my final opinion. Manfred as a character is not CE material. As for the player. I have not seen you enough to make a yes vote.

So my advise, store this app on a shelf somewhere for a week or two become more active on the forums and OOC and let the community see you and not Manfred.

[nbielinski]

Tain you are straining so far away from the point it almost reaches into the land of endless argument. No I don't think a Chief Engineer needs to know something and frankly they can know everything from either atmospherics or engineering (Which Manfred has failed to show any ability to be labeled as knowing "everything.") but that falls by the wayside when the character is just unlikable. Now a bad engineer or atmos tech can be taught the ways to be a good one, and a good engineer or atmos tech can make mistakes. But when your character is just overly confident in themselves, well there is no way to fix that without undue effort having to be taken. And if you truly mean you want RP to be enhanced by a head of staff then perhaps having them be someone crew can serve under would be the first step.

Now your whole issue with me saying that I consulted some of the best engineers I know, first of all your understanding of knowledge seems to be foul already. Knowing game mechanics is one thing, putting them into practice is another. As engineering requires you to be able to do things with the game that involve (sometimes) complex constructions and workings, and sure, Manfred might know these things but his efforts to prove himself are more than lacking.

Regardless, the "best engineers with the worst opinions" that you have fittingly appointed yourself in charge of judging, and myself, and many others who have hinted at the same feelings, who have not stated their feelings, have to agree that Manfred has not shown CE material actions. If you wish I can bust out the mental logs of what has occurred to prove otherwise, but as this is a whitelist application and not a location to blab on for pages at a time saying nothing, I will refrain.

In sort, Manfred has shown a lack of ability to lead, arrogance in the face of taking orders (Might I add that even the CE will have higher ups) and a general attitude that would make several characters feel less than willing to work with him. And a short side note, these notes. From myself, Nightmare, Witt and others. Are people who have watched and interacted with Hayden quite a few times as I recall.. just food for thought before we go off judging the character as the person who plays them.

[Nikov]

I've been on here for months. Manfred is not the personification of me, nor behaves anything like how I behave at my job, nor around women, nor do I share his vices. You don't know me to make the assumption he was written as a personification, but you only know me as Manfred.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, but there is only one anatomy of a cat. I know the anatomy and that's what I demonstrate to anyone willing to listen in-character. The trouble people often aren't, become aggressive over it, and then report that Manfred doesn't know anything. You can't put credibility on that. From what you've seen, I know one way to make it work. From what I can demonstrate if you wished to listen, I know why it works, how I've optimized it, what reasoning is behind every element, and why I do things differently than many others. It is not a question of turning on valves, it is a question of understanding the ideal gas laws and manipulating volume, temperature and pressure. Most atmos techs don't think beyond kilopascals and percents; I think in moles.

Regarding other engineering tasks, Manfred doesn't enjoy fine electronics or computers. He could, of course. He could know everything on the wiki and then some. But I prefer to have a field that my character doesn't know so he's forced to delegate (or at least gripe). This is another way we're different. But that's an aside.

Regarding taking orders: one principle of leadership is that in order to be respected by your subordinates, you have to respect your subordinates. I understand that and Manfred understands that. A number of Chief Engineers have shown him respect, and he obeys them. Another number do not understand this principle of leadership. If Mytz or Aquila were Chief Engineer and gave Manfred an order, he would pursue it with vigor. If Oliver Roadman (all good characters have a rival) gave an order, there might be some thought, but Manfred at least respects Roadman's abilities. They can work together if they keep professional courtesy. A Chief who turns a blind eye to a friend assaulting Manfred with sharp objects while they're in pressure suits and a depressurized room does not get his respect and obedience for the round. Roleplaying this kind of character can step on toes, but being insulted and lied about in-character has to be met with in-character responses. Don't kick a man and then call him violent for kicking back.

As has been said, this isn't a popularity contest. Showing how likeable the player is seems secondary to demonstrating the ability to draw other characters into a roleplaying scene and understand the job being requested. Callabaddie attests I can draw others into roleplay. Tainavaa attests I know the most sophisticated element of the job. Is their word in doubt here?

Edited October 24, 2015 by Guest

[Nanda]

Alright, so, Nikov asked me to respond here, he seems to put a lot of stock (And feels others might?) in my view and opinion. Or maybe it's Aquila's approval he wants? Heh.

I did grill him on a few things, both ICly and in forum PMs about different scenarios and problem solving. He seemed to have no problem with the enigneering aspect.

As far as attitude and leadership goes.. Aquila has been known to attack troublesome crewmates head on, not with words or counsilary solutions, but with a wrench.

I say give him the chance, because we can always remove his whitelisting at a later date. But if we never give someone the chance to try, we never know what we might be missing out on, and what wonderfully fun things might come from the experience!

Or he could be shit and I'll be lynched for this. Also fun! Heh.

Regardless, I give my support of this app.

[nbielinski]

Very well, and as it stands I grow tired of debating the same point over and over to no avail. May I get an admin or moderator to take a proper count of the + and - of this application? Through all the bickering it has become hard to tell.

[Guest]

The administration and whitelist approvers will make a judgement call on their own time, I think.

As for how Manfred reacted to being assaulted with a bladed weapon in space- and the subsequent downplaying of such an event. As a security officer, I'd personally deal with that more harshly than typical assault with aa deadly weapon. Because you're not just threatening someone with stab wounds and potential IB, but a suit breach, pressure and oxy deprivation, and being lost in the void.

I'd endorse the use of force and blunt weapons to eliminate the threat to your person with no hesitation. And I'd definitely expect the victim to hold a wicked grudge. Especially to anyone who displays nepotism or leniency to the attacker.

[nbielinski]

Well no I'm not asking for judgement to be called... that's just not reading what I said at all.

I'm asking can we get a count, an actual count to landmark the actual amount of points the app has.

[Guest]

3 for, 3 against, as Tainivaa didn't vote.

[Killerhurtz]

Just had the honor to play with this player. I give him all of my approval. He's awesome.

[Tainavaa]

Something about Manfred not showing his knowledge, and being unlikeable

 

Once again, these are character things. If Nikov himself is judged to be a good enough roleplayer with the right mentality to be a head of staff then what does it matter if Manfred himself is unable to be a CE? You know what could be said? Sure, but Manfred can't be CE. With him just being an unlikeable character that only plays right into my popularity contest point because if you're saying it just to say it then it's clearly an irrelevant detail. So why mention it in the first place? If it's relevant, I have to ask. So what? Your answer to this question is very important.

Moreover, the head of staff whitelist is for all head positions. I got my head whitelist only knowing medical. Yet I was able to play CE, RD, Captain, and HoS despite my knowledge being strictly medical. You're questioning his ability to apply his knowledge but how many chief engineers took a standardized aptitude test to be approved? I started playing CE because I wanted to build shit, should I have my whitelist stripped? I mean, I haven't proven my knowledge in engineering well enough to prove I'm able to play it.

 

Something about judging peoples opinions.

 

Now you are straying from the point. Nowhere in my post did it suggest nor imply that their opinions or views are malicious. It's an objective observation of chief engineers who regularly practice nepotism. Those who do that have a certain type of mentality. Why would they speak highly of someone they're not going to trust with jobs? There's no reason to, I know I wouldn't speak highly or positively of someone I don't trust or like well enough to do a job. Would you? Them's just the breaks, Nibbles.

UPDATE: I let this mull over and I thought of some tacked on points to what I've already stated.

Nibbles: Some chief engineers don't know anything about atmospherics.

• This is perfectly okay. I'm ASSUMING that you also think it's okay. Honestly I'm kind of tired of all the heads that can "do it all" in their entire field. It's boring, I'd like more heads that are restricted. If you agree with me, then why is his lack of proven worth relevant?
  
  • If you rdisagree, then how do you expect him to prove himself with leaders that don't allow the opportunity?

[Reyjakai]

I haven't read this thread, but it seems like the major complaints are that his character isn't qualified, and that he may/may not know everything in Engineering. Who cares? Whitelists are given out based on who we think is a good roleplayer, not whether or not their character is deserving of a head position or not. Would we deny nursie a head application because Essel's a shit? I don't think so, and this is the same situation. Haven't seen anything terrible enough IC to merit denying a whitelist application.

[nbielinski]

**SNIPPY**

 

Again, Tain, you and almost every other individual who has given a +1 (Almost, again) has failed to grasp that knowledge of engineering and atmospherics is irrelevant, yes, some great CE's started knowing very little about atmospherics. Some simply popped up into engineering and by the grace of their head whitelist made a CE out of sheer want to be the CE. Now, I won't debate that maybe Manfred knows what he is doing (despite me, and others seeing otherwise IC) and say that he is competent in engineering practices.

The problem is, the problem I and other have stated yet you have diligently ignored. Is that Manfred seems to have a God complex. Sure he may follow orders but when told that his efforts are incorrect he gets hostile, juvenile and defensive rather than try and understand the issue. And when someone states to know "Everything about atmospherics and engineering" that is a problem, because they don't. No one knows EVERYTHING about atmospherics or engineering and those who state they do are not going to change their minds because of that issue. The repeating topic seems to be, "Are they a good RP'er." And again you seem to ignore us and paint large posts when we say no. We do not like him. We who have spent long rounds interacting with him. Do not like him. He has shown myself and others time and again that he is hard to work with. No matter how many CE's like him. And on that topic I should really shoot that down now. We have dozens upon dozens of CE's. If the excuse for being "Qualified to be CE" is that you trained ONE CE that was so green they could lay next to the grass and blend in perfectly (Not that its a bad thing.) Then I'm fairly sure every competent engineering would be CE by now.

Tl:dr Actually read the posts we make because our points are more than something for you to quote and dissect, Manfred has an attitude problem more than a competency problem, giving pointers to a CE is nothing to praise in engineering.

[nbielinski]

Nibbles: Some chief engineers don't know anything about atmospherics.

• This is perfectly okay. I'm ASSUMING that you also think it's okay. Honestly I'm kind of tired of all the heads that can "do it all" in their entire field. It's boring, I'd like more heads that are restricted. If you agree with me, then why is his lack of proven worth relevant?
  
  • If you rdisagree, then how do you expect him to prove himself with leaders that don't allow the opportunity?

 

We... agree on this.. so why take all the time to format it into some type of vivisection. I apologize Tainavaa but I'm having troubles finding your points no matter how hard I try and read.

None the less, I do disagree. Why? Well because it has become a recent trend of heads, and engineers to adopt a god complex. And I know why its because the old engineers knew their stuff and had the habit of making note of it so the new ones are pulling forth with the statement they know everything. Now onto your first point you say that a head doesn't need to know everything. Agreed, its not hugely important that they know everything. But what you blatantly ignore is the fact that if a person is not all knowing, they should NOT have a god complex.

Feel free to list, embolden, and highlight all the quotes in my posts to try and state otherwise but Manfred has shown time and again that he has the air of arrogance that make his methods the best ones. And when individuals who know better try and tell him otherwise. An example now, that this debate is growing tiresome.

In atmospherics there is a pipe, that takes all the gasses from scrubbers and pulls them into the system. Normally it has a regular ol' pump when the round starts. Standard. Easy. Now the policy of Manfred and the CE he trained is to replace that with a pressure regulator. A pressure regulator has two numbers listed. The one that the pressure behind it should be, and the one that the pressure head of it should be. When I and others attempted to change Manfred and the CE he trained and say that no, such a device would cause a backlog of pressure and clog up the system to the rear. We were almost all shot down with, "No, I've never seen that happen." And no this is not an issue like, "Oh do we use large buckets attached to planes to fight the forest fire or fire trucks on the ground." It is saying, "Do we use firetrucks to fight the fire or do we just use a bucket chain from one side of the national forest to the other."

But before we start debating atmospherics I need to say that this is just one example of poor choices and the refusal to change.

If you refuse to adapt to ideas that are better optimized for the system. Then a bad Chief Engineer you will make. Because there will always be someone with a better way to do things. And if you approach each of them with a God complex, you will not learn anything and will always remain at that level of, "Oh I don't know EVERYTHING." That the other side of the argument seems to love.