Characer Complaing Against Sybil Rosetta-Sigma

[Evandorf]

BYOND Key: Evandorf

Player Byond Key: Killerhurtz

Staff involved: Garnascus

Reason for complaint: I am SO. Goddamn. Salty right now.

I have a log and can post if needed. I will be linking this to those involved as well so they can comment.

It was a ling round. I was basically stalking the Librarian most of the round. Ahren(W3bster) was the other ling and sec officer. He outs me fairly early to the rest of the crew. I deny it and it goes nowhere for the longest time. Actually most of his outing me as a ling was along the lines of "I stung him. He's not hallucinating." Things that are hidden from other players. So I'm playing as the Detective and I'm following the librarian. Eventually she gets so shaken up that she runs into R&D and gets cornered. She stands there yelling at me to get back and that there's a cult after her and such and the RD comes around the corner. They go off into the server room to have a little powow and when they come back out the RD says that the librarian is staying with her in R&D and that I can't interview her about her erratic behavior or what she shouted about a cult because I have no evidence. Ok, shaky reasoning, but OK. I left. I go back to the library. I see a cargo tech the librarian had been speaking to. He is in the librarian's office and is climbing back out over the table. I arrest him. Both on the grounds of him getting into areas he shouldn't and in conjunction with the fit the librarian is throwing. At this time, I have him in processing and soon after Ahren comes in tossing a flashbang and stunning me. Cuffs me. Claims I was going to consume the cargo tech. RD comes in since he is the only active head. Gives Ahren the go ahead to CONSUME me since I'm such a bad guy.

Some points:

-I was a changeling antag.

-I had not killed or attacked a single person the WHOLE round.

-I had stalked a singular person most of the round under the guise of an investigation.

-The RD's reasoning/proof for why I had to be killed, why he would ALLOW an unknown alien to consume and kill me was because that same unknown alien "told him I was untrustworthy" and had to be put down. This was the MOST staggering to me.That basically it was OK to kill me because this other alien (who makes swords out of his arms and admits to attempting to inject crew with hallucinatory chemicals) said so.

-There was a staggering lack of proof of any misdeed. Even between two human crew members, you have to have some proof to jail them let alone allow them to be killed by another crew member. There was no proof. Hell, there was not even a goddamn body. I had killed, no one. Only that the wierd alien thing said it was so. I never outed myself as a changeling, I denied it all round long. I never morphed or did anything to give myself away. For all the RD knew I could have been another normal crew member.

Approximate Date/Time: 10/27/2015 1:10 AM US Central

Edited October 27, 2015 by Guest

[Killerhurtz]

My side of the story:

SO. I join at around the 2 hour mark. Big news, the AI had a happiness law, and there were unknown lifeforms so a First Contact protocol was active. Sybil gets called into her department because there was "someone screaming, and the detective". So she goes in - and get the PDA passcode from her office (because there was a borg, and in an extended, canon round Sybil saw several times the AI use the borg to acquire the passcode from the paper because she was busy and so she always was wary of this situation). She happen to meet the third problem - the detective and the librarian - on her way to the server room to change the passcode. They talk - the librarian seems to just want to get away from the detective. So Sybil says one moment, and slips into the server room to secure it with a new password (because she felt it was more urgent). Karina, the librarian, slips in with her, and the door closes - and at that point she decides not to stop her because she might have wanted to say something - and so she did. Karina didn't trust the Detective - she thought he was part of a cult that had marked her for death - and as said also mentioned a club. And since the detective WAS indeed acting a bit odd (and Sybil had a quick glance at the PDA message logs - there was a bit of wierdness here and there that correlated with Karina's story of a cult), she made some excuse to keep her in - all while mentioning that the detective had neither an arrest or interrogation warrant, it wasn't code blue AND that he presented no evidence as to her interaction with the cult, before ordering him out of the department. By then, the second 'Ling (described simply as 'alien organism' on the comms) was at the bridge - and since Sybil was RD, it was her role to establish first contact proper.

And so, after leaving Karina with Zairjah - a trusted scientist - Sybil left for the bridge. Upon arrival, he was there - and so was Joyce Emii, the CMO, who had been handling the situation thus far. We meet them, and we get acquainted - the alien lifeform (speaking in an alien voice) said it trusted Sybil, and Sybil trusted the lifeform for two reasons, at that point: one, Joyce had spent considerable amount of time with him and was not harmed at all, and two, they didn't even hide that they weren't human. And so Joyce left to take care of CMO duties. Sybil and the Ling talked for a while - he opened up to everything, how his species hunted organics, and how HE hunted other of his own species. How they were pretty much invulnerable save for highly damaging stuff and their own species. Nothing was hidden. Every single strong and weak point given. And since he did seem, at that point, COMPLETELY cooperative, open and non-hostile, and the detective was acting strange in Sybil's opinion, she agreed to hatch schemes to physically restrain the detective. At that point, something happened in Atmospherics, which the 'ling needed to respond. Sybil went back to her department, told Karina the news - and in the meanwhile, the detective apparently found that cargo in the library (which isn't that big of a crime). The security officer Ling disapproved, and contacted me with instructions - Sybil told them to remind the detective that they couldn't arrest people without a warrant or evidence (not knowing that was what happened) and to contact her if things got worse. After that point, Sybil talked a bit to Karina - trying to get her to hand over the protopistol Zairjah made for her defense - before Sybil got called to the brig. Next thing she knows, the detective is cuffed and on a chair. Because of her knowledge of what they were, and the earlier agreement, Sybil started browsing the legal book for the crimes possibly committed and how to get the detective into, preferably, isolation so that Ahren could peacefully consume (after 'injecting him with psychoactive stuff' - which Sybil dismissed), but before it could occur, Ahren moved on and started killing the detective. Sybil did not interfere for three main reasons - one, it was part of the agreement. Second, even if she wanted to, she didn't know how to. And third, they were in processing - Sybil, being RD, couldn't stop it because she didn't have access. Shortly afterwards, a Head of Security came aboard. Sybil gave a full report to the extent of her knowledge, before asking if she could take the body for a dissection. The Head of Security approved of the situation, not even acting against the 'unknown alien' security officer which did the deed, and allowed Sybil to take the body (that is before griefers set the station full of plasma).

So, from my point of view - things escalated the way it did because Evandorf was the least subtle ling I've ever seen (and that's saying something considering that he is considered less subtle than a ling who actually told us they weren't human. They made it clear they were stalking a prey, and their opponent played it against them.

As a side note, the player afterwards did not stop complaining about it, to the point of being annoying - and when the plasma fire came to departures, by accident, he wished death upon 'all of the murderers' in there. It seems, to me, it is a case of a ling gone wrong - and as he stated himself, he is very salty of it.

[Evandorf]

Apologies for typos as I am writing this on mobile.

I was as subtle as I could be. I was behaving in the same way I would if I were actually investigating a real case as detective. The problem is that your view of my actions were skewed by your misconceptions based on the alien's information. And honestly, I think the main problem is a type of meta bias. If someone were to come up to you and say "That detective is an alien. Trust me." Regardless of how trustworthy he is I think most people would be skeptical. However, every time Hawkens brought this up, first to Officer Calhoun, then the CMO who I don't remember the name of, and then to you, the result was not suspicion of the alien standing before them but of the person they are accusing. Again, there was and is (I believe) no way of knowing a ling from a human. Hawkins could have concocted this story about any of the prisoners that round, who actually committed crimes, and it seems that he would have likely been given the go ahead.

The metabias I speak of is simply that w3bster is well known. You hear something from him and somewhere in your mind you think "he knows what he's doing" and "he wouldn't be wrong" and you gloss over protocol and regulation. You kept me from merely interviewing the librarian because of lack of a warrant or proof but that didn't seem to stop you from allowing punishments or detainment to be done to me (who again did nothing but allledgedly act suspicious).

[Killerhurtz]

Except that, as I said, you were way too insistent - and as a detective, it's not your job to chase down people. That's security's job. The reason why it was suspicious is that you went beyond your powers in order to 'apprehend' your target. And Sybil put Karina in Zairjah's care BEFORE I knew it was Ling (I thought it was cult; Sybil just thought something was amiss). There was no bias.

Also, as I said, there were two reasons why Sybil trusted the 'Ling, primarily - lack of hostility and the fact that the alien stated facts that Sybil already had an idea of (down to the target's identity and location, and who you were).

As for the metabias part... really? I only know a handful of characters by memory, and of these, a tiny fraction do I actually know the player behind it. I don't know w3bster. It just sounds like you're trying to justify my actions being bad, and at that point I'm going to wait for some form of moderation to come in.

(Also, I just re-read - in your post, the 'staff involved' part is who you AHelped. You DID Ahelp someone right?)

[Evandorf]

I did AHelp, it was answered by Garn who said it was an IC issue. Edited the initial post to reflect that.

I wasn't overly insistent at all. Another officer was looking for the librarian, Xenua I think. I'm not certain if it was related to me or not, probably was as Hawkins was pushing people about it the whole round. Anyway I meetup with Xenua in the library because he's asking the AI to open the librarian's office door to look for her. I wait around with him there, and eventually an engineer comes to help because I think the AI was offline at the time or just afk. The engineer opens up a wall and three people pop out. One was a miner, a friend of the librarian, brandishing a pickaxe. The other was the QM and the third was the librarian herself. The librarian bolts out from the library while Xenua is talking to the miner with the pickaxe. I follow the librarian who runs into science through a door someone just went through. This is where you found us. She was shouting at me to stay back. I was keeping my distance. I made no move on her or did anything aggressive other than tell you I wanted to interview her about the cult issue. I resisted leaving without her at first, but I left when I saw you'd not let her go without a warrant/evidence.

Later I sent you a PDA message asking to meet up with you regarding questions I had and you just replied that you were busy.

That was pretty much our entire interaction that round other than when you came to security after Hawkins had me cuffed in processing. Then you did not even listen to a thing I said. You just stated that you knew I was a threat and an alien because Hawkins said so. Then Hawkins consumed me.

[Killerhurtz]

Thanks for the info - Garn probably will comment eventually, if not someone else.

And neither I nor Sybil didn't know what had happened at that point - all Sybil knew was that the detective, alone (you'd think if it was legit they'd have another officer with them, especially since it was code green) had chased someone INTO her department (instead of calling backup and charging the librarian with trespassing into a restricted area - hell, since Sybil had joined, you COULD have contacted her, and she WOULD have helped you extract the trespasser - unless it's an emergency or approved, she HATES intruders in her workplace, and as a Head it is her duty to uphold protocols), and that person was trying her hardest to stay away from the detective. If that's not suspicious as all fuck, then what is? Then Sybil had to tell you to leave what, three times? Before you conceded and she escorted you out - and it's at that point that the other Ling ended up talking to, and enlisting Sybil's help.

As a side note, I consider rather aggressive the fact you followed her in. As stated, at that point, you had FULL rights to lock her up for trespassing, and even line her up for a psych exam followed by time in solitary (at which point nothing would have stopped you from devouring her).

And at the time you sent a PDA message, Sybil WAS busy - gathering information from the other lifeform. The fact that you didn't eat anyone yet is irrelevant - Sybil had already a lot of evidence that the detective was fishy to hell and back, and as stated previously, Sybil couldn't have stopped it if she wanted to because of where you were. Ahren had you in his clutch, with a closed access door between you and most help.

The best part is, if you'd played along and admitted it, Sybil would have kept you mostly safe - for the wrong reasons, of course (because a life subject is more valuable than a dead one) but you would still have lived.

But regardless - Sybil had established likely cause of harm from the detective (even though it wasn't her job), and was given the opportunity (if it wasn't for the fucking fire) to dissect a strange lifeform while having a live, non-hostile one to hand to Central for analysis. The best of all worlds for her.

If you thought you were subtle and not leaving any hints, you might want to study a bit more - because a vast majority of what you did was off. First, there HAD to be a reason why the librarian doubted you, yes? That means you slipped up somewhere. THEN instead of using the tools available to you, as a detective, to get her in (and to disprove Ahren and get him arrested for slander and other such things), you just ignored everyone else and just CHASED your target. Trespassing yourself to get to her (and if Sybil didn't come, I KNOW you would have consumed her right there and then - she was cornered, no one was looking, it would have been the ideal crime). AND THEN, when everything was stacked against you, you decided to play the officer instead of the detective and tried to arrest someone instead of calling for a real officer and then just laying low until you had another plan.

From the Baystation 12 Wiki (since our wiki doesn't have an entry for it):

 

The Detective's job is to investigate the remains of any crime, identify the perpetrator, and then ask Security to arrest them for you. They have no brig access because they are supposed to be an evidence collector and investigator, not a Security Officer or Warden.

 

And that is why everything you did was out of touch. A detective actively hunting people, like a security officer, is REALLY wierd - if this was an extended round, I'd have written down an incident report for major overstepping of your powers.

[Evandorf]

OK, a little more backstory.

Before the events in my previous post I had visited the librarian once. I said and emoted things to her in an attempt to establish RP before killing her. I wasn't trying to be subtle because it's more fun and when there is just one person saying things like "This guy is an alien and he's trying to eat me!" then they should naturally be given a psych evaluation. I don't think showing my hand to one person, my intended target, is giving myself away. Especially if they don't have any actual physical or recorded evidence to back up their claims.

So, long story short. I don't make my move on the librarian because more people come into the library and that's just no good. I play things off like I was just in there for a book and leave. Then I can only assume the librarian got in touch with someone else in sec because up until this point Hawkens didn't know who I was.He only knew that I had access to the sec radio. He quickly found me with two other officers, one being Calhoun, and we had a very long discussion. Hawkens kept saying I was an alien, I kept denying it, and round and round in circles because you cannot prove someone is a ling.

This is about the time when I go back to the library due to overhearing Xenua's radio messages, and the story picks up in my previous post.

So from the position of my cover story, I did not know she was afraid of me. As I said before, she simply bolted out of the library. I did not go after the librarian in an attempt to arrest her and I was not going to consume her immediately there either. The middle of the science corridor is too exposed. I was just trying to get her back to sec for an interview/statement. To that end I followed her into science and when she started screaming at me I kept my distance. If I were an actual security officer I would not have simply cuffed her and arrested her for trespassing then and there. I thought that if anyone came upon us, as you did very soon after, that they would likely feel concern for this person that was clearly scared to death. As such, I began asking questions such as "Who is after you?", "What's going on?", "Who were those other people?" and she would only shout at me to stay back and that there was a cult after her. In essence I was just "trying to calm her down" as far as my cover was concerned.

However, the main issue I have still exists. Typing all this out in a post here is all well and good, but you could have found it all out during the round if you had simply listened to me instead of just grabbing a regulations book to start adding up a bunch of charges of which half were fabricated and none had any actual proof. And proof is what you need, especially for capital punishment. I don't know what kind of protocol is required to authorize a punishment of "death by weird alien who seems like a nice guy" but I'm fairly certain it wasn't followed.

[Killerhurtz]

I don't think showing my hand to one person, my intended target, is giving myself away.

Except it is. She wouldn't have ran otherwise.

Also, you're forgetting that as I keep saying, Sybil could have done NOTHING because there was a security door between you and her. It was not by my hand that you died. And the reason, in the first place, that you got cuffed and put there is because, as a detective, you played the officer. It ends there, there's nothing more to say until moderation comes in.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I don't think showing my hand to one person, my intended target, is giving myself away.

Except it is. She wouldn't have ran otherwise.

 

That logic is metagaming. Just because someone runs away doesn't mean they're actually telling the truth. What if the detective hadn't have been a ling? That would have been embarrassing. You were trusting a panicked witness accusing one of your own and babbling about a cult, and an unknown alien entity that you've never seen before, over your own security staffer who had been showing every signs of being a regular ol' detective from how it sounds.

You don't trust the alien that admits that his species consumes people alive to survive.

Even though you got the other ling eaten, IC'ly no one can know that. All we'd know is that you just got someone killed for trusting a psycho and an alien monster. Say hello to maximum security prison.

[Killerhurtz]

First things first, I didn't mean it as a "she ran therefore ling' but as "someone ran from you screaming, therefore you gave yourself away to at least someone".

Jackboot, let me list the facts (from my point of view) in order:

Sybil trusted a panicked witness of something that seemed to be backed by PDA logs (that she had a glance of because of these accusations, while changing the password because of crazy AI) that had been followed by someone who had very little purpose following her, ESPECIALLY where she went. And that was oddly insistent on JUST letting her go - he could have contacted the rest of security to back him up. He could have contacted the CMO, the only other head, for assistance. But no, he had to solve this on his own, despite having NO power to arrest or take anyone in (and Sybil knows this very well). And so, by keeping Karina with her, all she did was prevent an unlawful arrest by someone not qualified.

And if it weren't a ling? Sybil would have assumed all responsibilities, and would have assisted the takedown of that new creature with her research arsenal.

As for why she trusted the alien? Occam's razor. To believe the detective was innocent, she had to assume that Karina and the alien were lying, that the alien did infact get massive amounts of information (that Sybil already suspected) from nowhere and that the Detective really DID just not think about using his fellow security officers to help him in his investigation by mandating interrogations. Believing that the detective was guilty involved simply assuming that the alien and Karina were telling truth. Therefore, due to Occam's razor (which is part of her coding as a science IPC), it is correct to assume that the detective is guilty.

ICly, what would have happened is that Sybil would have been tricked by a panicked crewmember and a crafty alien despite it not being her job to keep the crew safe from hostile lifeforms (RDs are in charge of first contact, not hostile contacts. They're not combat-trained).

Also, it would have happened with or without Sybil - as I said, there was a door to which she did not have access to between them. And Ahren had taken in the detective on his own - if I wasn't there, it would just have meant there would have been no witnesses to the devouring. Sybil only arrived after the detective was already cuffed AND tied to a chair (for trying to arrest a cargo technician against his powers - which is, again, a lawful arrest from Ahren's part). Sybil could have shrugged and left, it would have been devoured. Sybil could have called for help - but since Security was pretty much empty (I think there was a single sleeping agent at the front desk), by the time anyone would have been able to come, they'd have been devoured.

While Sybil DID conspire to capture the detective to help them, ultimately she had no interaction with his capture. She arrived on station, got to the research station. Met the wierd detective, kept the person away from them. They left. Got to the bridge, talked to the alien. Security alert caused alien to need to leave. Sybil returned to Research to talk to Karina, then is called to brig. She goes to brig, the detective is cuffed and tied to a chair. Sybil, to rub it a bit in, got a legal book and listed the potential things he did - all knowing (and the detective should have known, as well) that RDs had no legal powers. At that point. Sybil wanted the detective to admit it so that she could apply the first contact protocol to him as well - but before that could happen, Ahren devoured him.

[Evandorf]

-Hawkens was acting inline with station authority and command structure. If you had told him not to consume me he would have stopped. I am on mobile currently and can update this with log excerpts but I believe my exact words were "RD, he's going to kill me. I'm going to die." and the response I got was "It has been approved."

-Again, I was not arresting the librarian in science. I was at first trying to calm her down and later, after you spoke to her, was trying to get her to come back to security for a statement/interview.

-I am not certain, but in extreme cases I believe the RD can use chain of command structure to make decisions in the absence of other, higher order heads. I'm not certain if the CMO or RD is higher, but I expect some measure of authority in life and death situations.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I may have misread, but I didn't see Denten say he was committing an unlawful arrest like you said he was. Detectives are completely within their power to shadow someone and be pushy in asking them questions - that's not suspicious. Being an asshole maybe, but nothing to make you think they're an evil alien.

And you can't claim inability to help him when you personally approved his being consumed.

You are allowed to use the chain of command to make decisions in the absence of other heads, in situations where it's necessary enough. Having bodysnatchers running around is obviously a situation where the sole head can have expanded powers.

Being an IPC does not give you an excuse to metagame. You had no evidence except testimony of a mentally unstable individual and a hostile xeno. You had someone in your security department executed for hooliganism on your own approval, strengthening a hostile unknown alien.

Did you get any evidence except the screaming librarian and obviously manipulative alien, that had already committed murder by virtue of being on the station as a former crew member that it had to kill to steal their face and pose as them on the station?

[Killerhurtz]

For the librarian, he wasn't. The cargo worker was the unlawful arrest, as he tried to actually subdue and restrain him from what Sybil and I read.

And Jackboot, what was I supposed to do then - stalk the detective myself to make sure he wasn't harmed? While Sybil approved, all of this literally happened without her even KNOWING about it until the last minute.

And I know I'm allowed to use the chain of command for that. Except Sybil did NOT order him to take him in - Sybil said that she would be working on getting him restrained. That implied gathering more data (originally, Sybil was planning on having the Detective pass some medical tests - and hoped that it would come up. She wouldn't have had allowed it without proper verification. But as I said, that was a moot point, because within five minutes of Sybil being done talking to the alien, the two were already confined, together, in Processing. Yes, Sybil did approve of it - because, in it's way, it was a self-verifying thing; either it was the right thing to do and it would end there (which, IC, it did - with the Head of Security approving it when she arrived) OR it was wrong and Sybil would have taken steps (now that the Head of Security was there) to attempt to physically restrain the alien while a proper officer or the HoS could arrest them before turning themselves in. As a side note, sole head is not accurate - there was also the CMO that DID actually talk to the alien as well (they are the one who told me there was an alien to talk to), and shortly thereafter there was a Head of Security which did not disapprove and did not brig Sybil for this.

I know that being an IPC does not give me the right to metagame. And I did not. My character had recorded the following as evidence: the fact that the Detective trespassed in her department to interrogate someone (instead of giving trespassing charges to the party). The extreme insistence of working alone for the Detective instead of requesting help from their department. The talks with the alien. And, as a minor augment to this evidence, the possible witness and PDA logs. Also, the Xeno at that time was NOT hostile. There's about five different targets they were isolated with that they did not interfere with. As far as Sybil was concerned, it was peaceful.

And as I said, it's not a case of 'I let someone be executed for hooliganism'. It's a case of 'an officer-that-was-an-alien arrested the detective for what, as far as Sybil knew, was an unlawful arrest of a cargo worker and Sybil pre-approved the interaction between two xenos despite her not having the resources to interfere regardless'.

As for the whole 'xeno already having killed to even be on the station' - Sybil had no proof that it was a kill either. It would be metagaming to assume that. As far as Sybil knew, he merely had the appearance of a crewmember.

So now, the question is Jackboot - what would you have had me do?

Would it have made a difference if Sybil said she disapproved?

Would it have been not a valid complaint if Sybil responded to the Brig five minute later - at which point the detective would have been consumed?

Or is Sybil just supposed to blindly trust every member of security and let them figure it out?

What WAS I supposed to do?

Sybil was a spectator to this whole show. She did not order, or be directly involved, with any of the actions that happened.

Yes, she WAS a head - but in the situations involved, she had no real power.

[Evandorf]

Honestly, my main issue and the reason I was so angry in the first place was that I tried to RP the changeling out. I wasn't super aggressive, I focused on one target at a time and gave that person adequate RP to understand what was going on. Hawkins, to his credit also was giving a lot of RP and time to work around the situation within the lore.

I was playing slow and careful with the assumption that the same would be given to me. That if charges or allegations were voiced that due process would be followed by a person in the position of authority.

You say that there could have been two outcomes to him consuming me but I don't think so. How do you know after the consumption whether or not I was an alien? Husks all look the same. There is no way to know.

On a slight tangent, Jackboot, I have to ask about an RP incident between Hawkins and myself earlier in the round. He emoted something along the lines of "Hawkins reaches out to the Detective and his hand begins to morph into the detective's body." I don't know the rules on this but it seems like he's RPing for me and through his emote mandating my reaction. This was in an effort to again out me as a ling. I suppose I could have responded with a "Detective pulls away from Hawkins, leaving Hawkins' arm ending in a facsimile of the detective's chest" to make it look like a trick, but I'd rather like to know your opinion on emoting something that affects someone else's response.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

That's called poweremoting. It's a really HRP form of powergaming. Someone's emotes cannot make you do anything or assume you're doing anything. You are in control of the agency of your character, not anyone else except what's possible by mechanics.

Lizard Harmbaton punches Urist McChaplain in the face! Is poweremoting.

Lizard Harmbaton tries to punch Urist McChaplain in the face! is how you're supposed to do it.

It's a kind of explicit powergaming that you only really see on HRP.

[Killerhurtz]

Denton, OOC I'll concede that I wouldn't know how to tell the difference. But IC? Sybil doesn't even KNOW what happens when one of these aliens eat someone. It's first contact, remember?

Though I WILL admit, things MAY have panned out quite differently had I answered the PDA message. That I will fully admit.

I'm sorry that RPing out the changeling didn't work out the way it did. But aside from not coming back to your message, I don't see how Sybil could have affected the course of the round.

[Evandorf]

Hopefully I'm doing this right.

 

 

You could have not given tacit agreement to Hawkins and attempted to gather proof or evidence before agreeing to work with him. Again, I agree with Jackboot, I would be MUCH more suspicious of this alien who makes himself known to me and tells me how his kind eat people than of the Detective he is accusing.

[Killerhurtz]

Denton, that's still not answering it.

How could Sybil have prevented this situation?

[Guest]

"Don't kill him, we need to perform tests first."

"I'm sorry, you're a man eating parasitic space wasp that kills its own kind for some indiscernible reason? If you're going to cooperate with us, you'll need to be fitted with a suite of implants after some stringent psych vetting."

"You need to back off and perform a proper investigation before issuing capital punishment. If you're going to be a security officer on this boat, you need to understand that you're not above regs."

Etc.

Instead you kicked back and let a horrible space wasp run rampant and kill ostensibly innocent people.

[Tainavaa]

Callabaddie, that sounds like you're trying to police peoples' roleplay here.

The nature of roleplay is, shit happens. There are going to be shitty situations for yourself and people aren't going to make the best decisions. Do bad decisions necessarily mean bad OOC decisions? Not really, you also can't keep OOC and the meta in mind at all times. I personally prefer not to anyway. In fact I like to forget the meta/OOC exists.

It kind of just sounds like a shitty situation more than anything. These things happen and I would argue it isn't a bad thing on an OOC level.

[Killerhurtz]

I know this is a bad way to tackle this, but...

 

Only post if involved. If you are not a moderator or administrator and were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a player complaint regarding said incident(s).

 

What's your involvement, Callabaddie?

But anyhow - as Tainavaa said, if everyone only made good decisions, things would be awful boring and predictable. And there's the fact that I'm not sure that Sybil could have SAID anything to stop it - it WAS an alien creature.

[Evandorf]

Tainavaa, I would agree with you except for the point that he was playing a head of staff. Maybe I have the wrong expectation but I had assumed that if you were whitelisted as a head you understood and adhered to your responsibility to the crew. Sybil was not an antagonist so my first though was that she would attempt to resolve the issue without any crew deaths.

[Evandorf]

Killerhurtz, the entire reason Hawkins was on my ass the whole round, or at least what he states, is that he was trying to protect the crew. That he consumed for survival but I did it for pleasure. He was working with station command and showed no signs of disobeying. I am fairly confident he would have stopped if you had made the effort.

[Killerhurtz]

Then again, Sybil would have received flak regardless.

Let's put it this way. On the one hand, a single innocent could have perished if Sybil was wrong about letting it happen. And then, since she had tangible proof that they were hostile, she could have done something beyond that. Maybe, with a bit of luck, find some way to clone them (she didn't know if it was possible, and she'd have found ways, most likely, regardless).

On the OTHER hand, Sybil lets the Detective go free. She was right to suspect them, and the Detective wisens up and start being sneaky - they're not discovered until five people have perished, and it's all on her head because she released a creature she had good suspicions that they were harmful. AND she had lost the trust of the one creature that could have helped her, which means that if Security could not do it, she would have had to use more insidious means - like finding exactly what restrains you, cutting you open and implanting you with a bomb. Or end up, with some absolutely abyssimal luck, as a handful of unlawed synthetics versus a single, immortal being with all access - including the armory, where EMP rifles are located.

Which one would be harder to account for? Taking responsibility for one death due to inaction, or one-to-multiple-deaths-to-station-total-loss due to her actions?

And cut the spiel about 'no one dying'. I am 90% certain you would have been just as salty with a permabrig. Or that means you would have stopped antagging, and have became salty at not being able to antag. And then Ahren, if they decided so, ALSO had nothing to stop them from sneakily killing you.

No matter what happens, every situation had at least one, if not several of these elements: your anger, someone's death, multiple deaths.

[Evandorf]

There were more options than killing me or releasing me. There was an option to simply have Ahren detain me and then proceed to take my statement, the statements of others and try any tests you wanted. I would have been much happier if you had simply allowed me to continue the round and add to RP in any number of ways.

If you had told Ahren to stop, and he didn't and killed me anyway I would be A-Ok with that because then he's outed himself as a liar and untrustworthy. He's an antag and has the OK to kill as long as he gives adequate RP. My main issue was collaboration of the command structure with an unknown alien against one of their crew.