Remove Genetics Injectors

[EvilBrage]

As it says in the title. I think this would cut down on a great deal of abuse we see coming from genetics, would eliminate the ridiculous self-testing phenomenon, and would encourage working with assistants and other lab rats to figure out which traits do what - not to mention, mass-producing powers for people to chucklefuck with use becomes a chore, which is probably a push in the right direction.

Thoughts?

[MagnificentMelkior]

As someone who mainly plays genetics, This by itself is not a good idea. The DNA modifier itself is a horrible way to put specific gene blocks into a target. It would simply be much too time consuming to test all the blocks, compared to reaching completion in any other field of science, even for a very experienced geneticist. Another issue: why is self testing such a horrible thing? It stands to reason that the person who works with these powers every day is going to be the most qualified to actually employ them effectively, not to mention its not irrational to inject yourself with something that you have determined is reasonably safe, which is a claim any geneticist who discovered every power on an extended round, at the very least, can make. Also it would mean that in the event of a genetically modified individual leaving the lab and doing evil, it would be much harder to revert them back to normal. Why not just use DOs and/or Admins to deal with a geneticist who would widely distribute powers without command's permission, as a person who did that would get fired just as quickly as a scientist who handed out proto-pistols and energy shields.

[Guest]

Block injectors carry zero risk and always manifest positive/negative attributes.

[MagnificentMelkior]

Block injectors carry zero risk and always manifest positive/negative attributes.

I got the impression he wanted to remove those too. But if not, that's actually a neat idea. And if I wanted to turn people into superheros with only block injectors I'd like minimum 6 injectors a pop, which is just untenable... but still, this presents the problem of clean SE syringes not being a thing.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

I like this idea as I'm of the opinion that making genetic powers easy to get (and they are, currently, easy to get) makes them cheap and annoying rather than cool/special.

[canon35]

Maybe we should replace Injectors with a tube on a DNA modification machine that can directly inject a block into the person? Boom, no way to carry it around, can still access powers to test as a geneticist.

[EvilBrage]

As someone who mainly plays genetics, This by itself is not a good idea. The DNA modifier itself is a horrible way to put specific gene blocks into a target. It would simply be much too time consuming to test all the blocks, compared to reaching completion in any other field of science, even for a very experienced geneticist.

No more time-consuming than it is at present. You'd know which blocks do what and could zap them on the desired individual accordingly (or, with some anti-rad medication on hand, use the feature that copies all of the SE blocks of an individual.) The point of the suggestion is to make it time-consuming, as opposed to figuring it all out thirty minutes into the round and cursing everyone with inevitable chucklefuckery, or worse, an entire security force with X-ray and remote viewing. You thought they were bad before? This suggestion was employed after watching a round of that in action, and I don't think I could stand a repeat.

 

Another issue: why is self testing such a horrible thing? It stands to reason that the person who works with these powers every day is going to be the most qualified to actually employ them effectively, not to mention its not irrational to inject yourself with something that you have determined is reasonably safe, which is a claim any geneticist who discovered every power on an extended round, at the very least, can make.

The self-testing isn't the issue. The issue is the players running around and using telekinesis to move absolutely everything around and slam people, only to then expect players to feign ignorance as to what the issue is because omg u metagaem otherwise. The issue is the hulks who bash through walls and blame it on the "mental effects" of the disorder. The issue is the "remote view" that can, more or less, instantly locate an antagonist in the process of his deeds (think an AI that doesn't rely on cameras.)

 

Also it would mean that in the event of a genetically modified individual leaving the lab and doing evil, it would be much harder to revert them back to normal. Why not just use DOs and/or Admins to deal with a geneticist who would widely distribute powers without command's permission, as a person who did that would get fired just as quickly as a scientist who handed out proto-pistols and energy shields.

If "command permission" meant anything in terms of mechanical balance, I might be inclined to agree. However, as we've established, scientists who're using and handing out lab equipment are punished about as often as security officers themselves. Self-testing geneticists are the target of the occasional head of staff's ire, but they are largely ignored until they become green and start punching walls. As for reverting them back to normal, 1u of Ryetalyn still does the trick, as always, so I don't see any particular difficulty there.

If we want to go halfway on it, I'd actually recommend the inverse of what's been discussed already - that is, removing block injectors and forcing a complete SE overhaul instead.

[MagnificentMelkior]

As someone who mainly plays genetics, This by itself is not a good idea. The DNA modifier itself is a horrible way to put specific gene blocks into a target. It would simply be much too time consuming to test all the blocks, compared to reaching completion in any other field of science, even for a very experienced geneticist.

No more time-consuming than it is at present. You'd know which blocks do what and could zap them on the desired individual accordingly (or, with some anti-rad medication on hand, use the feature that copies all of the SE blocks of an individual.) The point of the suggestion is to make it time-consuming, as opposed to figuring it all out thirty minutes into the round and cursing everyone with inevitable chucklefuckery, or worse, an entire security force with X-ray and remote viewing. You thought they were bad before? This suggestion was employed after watching a round of that in action, and I don't think I could stand a repeat.

And How would you know what blocks do what? The way you figure that out is be injecting said block into yourself (or a cooperative lab assistant). But if its muddied up with other blocks how are you supposed to isolate it? Anyway, 30 minutes into the round is very early... fastest I've ever done it is 45 and that was lucky, and I'm the fastest geneticist that I've seen. An issue I find as an antag is that its not worth the 50-90 minutes of die rolling to become optimal, and I'll cut and run with what I've got before then or just do non job specific antag stuff (or better yet I make a lab assistant do the grunt work for me). I'm sorry if someone made the entire security force psychic, that does suck and I'd never do that. If remote viewing were up for nerf or even removal I'd understand that. If someone were to go all out with remote viewing they could ruin a round.

 

Another issue: why is self testing such a horrible thing? It stands to reason that the person who works with these powers every day is going to be the most qualified to actually employ them effectively, not to mention its not irrational to inject yourself with something that you have determined is reasonably safe, which is a claim any geneticist who discovered every power on an extended round, at the very least, can make.

The self-testing isn't the issue. The issue is the players running around and using telekinesis to move absolutely everything around and slam people, only to then expect players to feign ignorance as to what the issue is because omg u metagaem otherwise. The issue is the hulks who bash through walls and blame it on the "mental effects" of the disorder. The issue is the "remote view" that can, more or less, instantly locate an antagonist in the process of his deeds (think an AI that doesn't rely on cameras.)

That's why why need definitive hulk lore, for one, and call security on geneticists who abuse tk. Lore about genetic powers is that they are known things, and the guys head glows blue (which different people interpret differently, but the point is its a distinct and obvious visible effect of some kind. Lore follows mechanics.) Seriously someone doing that is commiting at least two crimes (leaving the lab with gene mods active, unless they have permission from the RD or higher) and assault or battery. I can't imagine why security wouldn't arrest a geneticist for doing something like that especially with the hatred a lot of people have for genetics, but regardless that's on them, not genetics as a mechanic.

 

Also it would mean that in the event of a genetically modified individual leaving the lab and doing evil, it would be much harder to revert them back to normal. Why not just use DOs and/or Admins to deal with a geneticist who would widely distribute powers without command's permission, as a person who did that would get fired just as quickly as a scientist who handed out proto-pistols and energy shields.

If "command permission" meant anything in terms of mechanical balance, I might be inclined to agree. However, as we've established, scientists who're using and handing out lab equipment are punished about as often as security officers themselves. Self-testing geneticists are the target of the occasional head of staff's ire, but they are largely ignored until they become green and start punching walls. As for reverting them back to normal, 1u of Ryetalyn still does the trick, as always, so I don't see any particular difficulty there.

Again self testing is not a crime, not irrational, and not a problem (as you've admitted). The problem is geneticists who smuggle their powers out of the lab and apperantly cause problems with them. As for ryetalyn, yea that works but its not the easiest way to take out a genetically modified person because you need a chemist on that actually made ryetalyn. Usually when someone needs depowered the staff comes to me as a geneticist to fix it and I can do so with a clean SE syringe. And speaking from experience, geneticists leaving the lab with powers are often met with ire. I don't leave the lab with genemods active unless I'm literally forced to, or theres a medical emergency. People can and do call security on me when I leave my lab, even just to pop into medbay, and if they don't I can only assume its because they don't mind that much in character.

 

If we want to go halfway on it, I'd actually recommend the inverse of what's been discussed already - that is, removing block injectors and forcing a complete SE overhaul instead.

Well unless you specify what a complete SE overhaul would mean I can't respond to this, but as it currently exists, block injectors are necessary. Trying to work without them would be a logistical nightmare at best, utterly intractable at worst.

[JKJudgeX]

Another "nerf geneticists" thread.

I've already stopped playing geneticist (which was one of my favorite roles) on Aurora because of the whining about powers (which really don't amount to much more than things other players can start with, minus the 30+ minute research time). It's used as a license to freak out and overreact, and treat the geneticist disrespectfully.

Punish people individually who abuse the powers themselves... not geneticists as a whole.

[EvilBrage]

And How would you know what blocks do what? The way you figure that out is be injecting said block into yourself (or a cooperative lab assistant). But if its muddied up with other blocks how are you supposed to isolate it? Anyway, 30 minutes into the round is very early... fastest I've ever done it is 45 and that was lucky, and I'm the fastest geneticist that I've seen. An issue I find as an antag is that its not worth the 50-90 minutes of die rolling to become optimal, and I'll cut and run with what I've got before then or just do non job specific antag stuff (or better yet I make a lab assistant do the grunt work for me). I'm sorry if someone made the entire security force psychic, that does suck and I'd never do that. If remote viewing were up for nerf or even removal I'd understand that. If someone were to go all out with remote viewing they could ruin a round.

Consider also that if you're not an antagonist, you're essentially sitting in your lab waiting for things to happen. With the added biology functions to genetics, I don't think it would suffer terribly from the removal of superpowers and/or block injectors (or rather, a player wouldn't have a shortage of things to do compared to any other department.)

 

That's why why need definitive hulk lore, for one, and call security on geneticists who abuse tk. Lore about genetic powers is that they are known things, and the guys head glows blue (which different people interpret differently, but the point is its a distinct and obvious visible effect of some kind. Lore follows mechanics.) Seriously someone doing that is commiting at least two crimes (leaving the lab with gene mods active, unless they have permission from the RD or higher) and assault or battery. I can't imagine why security wouldn't arrest a geneticist for doing something like that especially with the hatred a lot of people have for genetics, but regardless that's on them, not genetics as a mechanic.

But I can't call security on geneticists who abuse TK. Because technically I don't know about it in-game because I don't have genetics training. Therefore, I'm breaking an OOC rule in an attempt to see IC rules enforced. Get it, now? That's why nobody does anything about it to begin with, presumably.

 

Again self testing is not a crime, not irrational, and not a problem (as you've admitted). The problem is geneticists who smuggle their powers out of the lab and apperantly cause problems with them. As for ryetalyn, yea that works but its not the easiest way to take out a genetically modified person because you need a chemist on that actually made ryetalyn. Usually when someone needs depowered the staff comes to me as a geneticist to fix it and I can do so with a clean SE syringe. And speaking from experience, geneticists leaving the lab with powers are often met with ire. I don't leave the lab with genemods active unless I'm literally forced to, or theres a medical emergency. People can and do call security on me when I leave my lab, even just to pop into medbay, and if they don't I can only assume its because they don't mind that much in character.

Self-testing is a problem, just not the problem I was addressing here, mind you. They don't "mind it" that much because it's become the unfortunate norm, much like those characters who love to state that the mayhem and chaos around them "always happens," cheapening conflict as a whole as a result of their indifference.

 

Well unless you specify what a complete SE overhaul would mean I can't respond to this, but as it currently exists, block injectors are necessary. Trying to work without them would be a logistical nightmare at best, utterly intractable at worst.

It means exactly what it says. Remove block injectors, leave the geneticists with only injectors that modify all of the blocks at once. As for making genetics hard to deal with - that was pretty much the objective to counter the ridiculous geneticists who can become X-ray hulk TK'ing pink tajarans before I can even steal a pair of insulated gloves - and I am very good at stealing things, mind.

[MagnificentMelkior]

Consider also that if you're not an antagonist, you're essentially sitting in your lab waiting for things to happen. With the added biology functions to genetics, I don't think it would suffer terribly from the removal of superpowers and/or block injectors (or rather, a player wouldn't have a shortage of things to do compared to any other department.)

I will agree that with added biology I would not mind the removal of block injectors. As long as it still remains possible to modify your own DNA without help by the addition of some other mechanic, I'd be okay with the removal of all injectors. I think superpowers do add a valuable dynamic to the game, however, and would rather see them remain a thing. It should be noted that the time investment to generate superpowers in a usable or powerful form will go significantly up without block injectors in the game, alleviating many people's issue with it.