Staff Complaint - TishinaStalker

[Guest]

ayy iz ya boy delta coming at you with another shitpost, trigger warning: sardony and salt

BYOND Key: OneOneThreeEight

Staff BYOND Key: TishinaStalker

Reason for complaint: Accusing me of using excessive use of force on a confirmed and dangerous antagonist, being absurdly offended when I pointed out that there was a difference between dislocating a guy's knee out of its socket and fracturing a man's leg with a bloodied stun baton, messaging me immediately when I popped the guy's leg out of place rather than allowing the in-game situation to resolve and then talking to me afterward.

Evidence/logs/etc:

Condensed version:

Que-Tup Xequal fires the taser gun!

The electrode misses Number 17 narrowly!

Que-Tup Xequal fires the taser gun!

Que-Tup Xequal fires the taser gun!

Number 17 slumps to the ground, too weak to continue fighting.

*click click*

You holster Springfield Mil Spec 1911.

Que-Tup Xequal puts the taser gun into the security belt.

The cuffs won't fit around the ominous insulated gloves!

Aleksander Ruslanovich says, "Alright then."

Que-Tup Xequal checks Number 17's pulse.

Aleksander Ruslanovich says, "Oh."

Aleksander Ruslanovich has grabbed Number 17 passively!

Aleksander Ruslanovich pins Number 17 down to the ground (now hands)!

Que-Tup Xequal says, "Cant cuff him"

Aleksander Ruslanovich covers Number 17's mouth!

Aleksander Ruslanovich has reinforced his grip on Number 17 (now neck)! ((I was targeting my mouth earlier to put a cigarette in my mask slot and smoke it, so that happened.))

Number 17 resists!

Number 17 resists!

Aleksander Ruslanovich starts forcing Number 17 to the ground!

ÿNumber 17 has been beaten in the right leg with stunbaton by Que-Tup Xequal!

Number 17 resists!

Aleksander Ruslanovich forces Number 17 to the ground!

Number 17 resists!

Aleksander Ruslanovich bent Number 17's right leg into a jointlock!

Number 17 resists!

Aleksander Ruslanovich bent Number 17's right leg into a jointlock!

Number 17 resists!

Que-Tup Xequal says, "Good idea"

Aleksander Ruslanovich twisted Number 17's right leg into a jointlock!

Number 17 resists!

[security] Que-Tup Xequal says, "We got him."

Que-Tup Xequal talks into the security radio headset

Que-Tup Xequal says, "we got him."

Aleksander Ruslanovich begins to dislocate Number 17's right knee!

Number 17 's body becomes limp.

Number 17's right knee collapses!

Aleksander Ruslanovich starts to tighten his grip on Number 17's neck!

Aleksander Ruslanovich has tightened his grip on Number 17's neck!

Aleksander Ruslanovich lost his tight grip on Number 17's neck!

Aleksander Ruslanovich has grabbed Number 17 passively!

Que-Tup Xequal puts the stunbaton into the security belt.

Aleksander Ruslanovich pins Number 17 down to the ground (now hands)!

Aleksander Ruslanovich has reinforced his grip on Number 17 (now neck)! ((this is finally where I try to drag the ninja back to the brig before I'm interrupted, which is 8 seconds after i bend the guy's knee out of its socket))

Secondary Admin PM] TishinaStalker: So, what's going on here?

to TishinaStalker: Can't cuff the ninja.

[secondary Admin PM] TishinaStalker: Why not?

to TishinaStalker: Do you really not know why?

to TishinaStalker: #The cuffs won't fit around the ominous insulated gloves!

[secondary Admin PM] TishinaStalker: You could tell me instead of immediately asking "WOW, DO YOU NOT KNOW?" But Alberyk already told me. Thanks for answering my question. What was the necessity behind breaking his knees exactly? ((like okay, i had actually assumed the entire staff team had some passing knowledge of how hardsuits work but i guess not, but even posing a rhetorical question counts as snark nowadays huh))

to TishinaStalker: It's dislocation, not breaking his knees.

to TishinaStalker: And no, I asked you rather simply why you thought I couldn't cuff this guy.

[secondary Admin PM] TishinaStalker: That didn't answer my question at all, Delta.

to TishinaStalker: Well considering we couldn't actually cuff the guy nor stop him the last few attempts, dislocating his leg would've prevented him from escaping. I escalated force properly so I could detain him.

[secondary Admin PM] TishinaStalker: How were you unable to stop the last few attempts?

to TishinaStalker: I was briefed by the CSI about this guy already, all I knew was that he evaded security already. Can I ask, what is the issue with using non-lethal measures in order to detain a guy in the equivalent of a super-suit? I was told nothing about this aside from the fact he was supposed to be detained.

to TishinaStalker: Is this suddenly the equivalent of taking an energy blade to his throat? Is that what I'm doing wrong here, using force on an antagonist? ((keep in mind i didn't actually commissar the dude and i was doing my absolute best to secure the ninja alive))

[secondary Admin PM] TishinaStalker: You're just starting to get ahead of yourself and I'm not talking anything about energy cutlasses, so please drop that. What I'm saying is that, from my point of view, that was an awful escalation of force. The first attempt I saw, the dude was shot down by an energy netted individual, and nobody could get close enough to cuff in the first place. Then the next attempt, you guys take a hold of him in a maintenance hall, the skrell beats the guy, and then you break his knee. That seemed like a huge, disproportionated escalation.

to TishinaStalker: A knee dislocation is not me breaking his bones. Dislocations can be fixed by the ninja himself if he knew how to right click on himself and pop his leg back into place.

[secondary Admin PM] TishinaStalker: Exact same thing,w hatever, I don't care for the semantic behind it. Only thing that matters is that you broke/dislocated. Go on with responding on that. ((lol wat))

to TishinaStalker: No, it's not the exact same thing, holy crap. A bone break is a FRACTURE. I did not fracture his bones or legs. What is the issue with me twisting his leg around so that he wouldn't escape? I couldn't handcuff him, and the guy clearly has a hardsuit module which is likely locked. I aimed to get the guy detained before you interrupted the situation instead of letting it resolve, and then asking me questions about the details.

to TishinaStalker: Maybe if mechanics allowed me to handcuff the guy I wouldn't have to twist his leg around in its socket in order to keep him down? Was that possibly considered? My character pretty much doesn't have the knowledge of how hardsuit control modules even work, so they'd be completely screwed in that aspect if anyone would ask him to take the suit control off the guy's back. My character applied additional force in order to get the guy brought in without needing to, say, take my glock, pop a couple rounds into his head and end up start a civil rights movements for ninjas. I used that amount of force because it was needed to outright stop the guy for absolute sure.

[secondary Admin PM] TishinaStalker: Honestly, I could really care less about break/fracture/dislocation/whatever you want to call it because they all achieve the same goal, and that's what I'm leaving that at. Again, I'm not saying that twisting his leg for him to not escape seemed bad, I'ms aying the escalation of force was bad. It went from disabling the guy, but being unable to cuff him because a dude was blocking the door to knee break/dislocation/whatever term you fancy while the other officer harmbatoned him (who has already been talked to for it). Once more just to be clear, I'm not talking about disabling him being bad but the ESCALATION behind disabling him.

to TishinaStalker: So you're saying the way I escalated was bad, right. Okay, was I supposed to like, just drag them back to the brig without restraints, risking them getting back up and kicking my ass or even getting away again?

to TishinaStalker: I thought it was a pretty reasonable assumption to figure that ninja was dangerous given a security officer was lighting him up with a taser.

[secondary Admin PM] TishinaStalker: I'm kind of leery on saying he was dangerous, considering that the most hostile thing the ninja did was throw an energy net on someone, but okay. I'm simply just going to drop this because we're really just wasting each other's time at this rate, but sure, I'll agree with this. Have a nice round.

Additional remarks: Can I be honest? This is one of the most retarded things I've ever had to have been adminhelped about and it goes to show the astounding lack of quality and effort put forward by certain members of the administration team. Would it be reasonable for me to assume; that the ninja immediately bwoinked "halp shitcurity jointlocking me ban they", and then Tishina came to the rescue by hitting that DIBS button, without asking for any sort of additional details from the person reporting it? Were the attack logs evidence enough to go out in a limb in making an attempt to judge my escalation of force (which was actually much more reasonable than cutting someone's fucking throat open with a heat-scimitar, and i fully intended to apologize to that person and pop their joint back in place once I got them back into the brig and secured so i could do my fucking job and QUESTION them, as is my obligation as someone on a ROLEPLAYING SERVER) as poor? I mean, fuck, I had plenty of intentions with roleplaying with the dude but it all kinda went down the crapper what with the poor antag calling the admins on me.

Like gee, maybe I should have put my glock to the ninja's head and killed him, because in that case I could've used the excuse "a staff member did it under the same conditions, why can't I" and gotten out of complete trouble, no? Using alternative means to killing was a total mistake now, and I understand that. Holy shit, my eyes have been opened. I will now totally endeavor to cause permanent irreversible IC damage to antags in an effort to bring them to justice instead of using short-term non-lethal extremes (that could've been fixed by a simple verb input to fix that dislocation) to meet a more equitable and feasible long-term result. I was a blind motherfucker, god damn it!

I truly appreciate the amount of faith the community and the administration team puts into other people. It's like the Force, it binds us all together. And then suddenly everyone gets paranoid and loses trust for each other the moment an RP situation gets to the point where the end result becomes hazy to anticipate. But hey, go team, right?

Edited February 14, 2016 by Guest

[Gollee]

I was the new antag in this round, as the first one left; I arrived, and was instantly attacked with shotguns and grapples without a word being said. I was the one who ahelped.

[Guest]

I was the new antag in this round, as the first one left; I arrived, and was instantly attacked with shotguns and grapples without a word being said. I was the one who ahelped.

 

I heard gunfire in the nearby maintenance, and I went inside and saw an officer detaining someone who looked like the supposed thief/trespasser with the same type of fullbody gimpsuit. I opted to help them out, and when I discovered I couldn't cuff you I opted to wrench your leg instead.

How was I supposed to know you were a totally different ninja? As far as we could tell in IC, it was the same guy that security kept chattering about to arrest.

[TishinaStalker]

I mean, I feel like we could've just talked this out privately instead because, admittedly, I did lose my temper with you, and that's what led to the stupidity in that whole conversation. In hindsight, I wish I hadn't made the decision to take the task. Settle things that way, but alright. I'll just get to this later tonight. I have a stressful day at work waiting for me today and I'd rather not get into this right now, but I'll apologize for it right now.

[TishinaStalker]

Alright, not sure what made you have the want and need to post an additional remark in such a rude and passive aggressive tone, outside of trying to spark something, but I'm not even going to give most of your additional remark the time of day for it because it really doesn't have any place in a calm, organized discussion. If and when you do change it to look like it belongs in such a chat, then I will be willing to discuss something from it if you wish to discuss it.

Outside of that, I don't really have anything else to add to this, now that I think of it, outside of what I already said. I'm already aware that what I did was wrong, I've already reflected on this issue and now know how to avoid this happening in the future, and I am sorry for how things played out. I don't have any points to bring up because I am aware I was in the wrong in this, and I'll leave it at that.

[Guest]

Alright, not sure what made you have the want and need to post an additional remark in such a rude and passive aggressive tone, outside of trying to spark something, but I'm not even going to give most of your additional remark the time of day for it because it really doesn't have any place in a calm, organized discussion. If and when you do change it to look like it belongs in such a chat, then I will be willing to discuss something from it if you wish to discuss it.

Outside of that, I don't really have anything else to add to this, now that I think of it, outside of what I already said. I'm already aware that what I did was wrong, I've already reflected on this issue and now know how to avoid this happening in the future, and I am sorry for how things played out. I don't have any points to bring up because I am aware I was in the wrong in this, and I'll leave it at that.

 

"I am unwilling to discuss the issues presented before me because they offend me."

Do you... not see how shitty this looks? You clearly weren't holding my hand in those adminPMs, why should I hold yours in this fun little staff complaint against you?

I will check my tone privilege for now, but I will continue to make fun of you for not being able to discern the difference between a limb dislocation and a bone fracture and using that fallaciousness in an effort to push your own opinion that I somehow did something wrong to someone who, to me, was the exact same antag sec was complaining about earlier.

So no, the ninja, as a matter of fact, was not a dindu muffin. It's totally illogical to expect that we should've known it was a different ninja.

[TishinaStalker]

I personally could've cared less about the difference between break/dislocation, honestly. They both carry the same goal of stopping you from using the leg. The only difference was the semantic of what happened to the bone. They are, in essence the exact same thing, and I personally did not care whether we used break or dislocate in the conversation because I would've understood what it was doing in the end and that's what mattered at the time of the discussion.

We were both being jerks to each other in the heat of the moment. Now this is a time when we're both not in that situation anymore. We are now calm and collected. There is no need to be a jerk anymore. If we can't have a civil discussion while we're calm and collected, then I will not have a discussion at all. I hope you can agree with that because devolving to being jerks to each other again won't really solve anything between us; even though you literally just said "Yeah, I'll keep making fun of you". Lets be men instead of boys and treat each other as such.

 

using that fallaciousness in an effort to push your own opinion that I somehow did something wrong to someone who, to me, was the exact same antag sec was complaining about earlier.

So no, the ninja, as a matter of fact, was not a dindu muffin. It's totally illogical to expect that we should've known it was a different ninja

 

Outside of that, I don't really have anything else to add to this, now that I think of it, outside of what I already said. I'm already aware that what I did was wrong, I've already reflected on this issue and now know how to avoid this happening in the future, and I am sorry for how things played out.

 

I have already presented that, yes, I was in the wrong in this situation, and I have apologized for this. I'm not sure what else you want me to say about that because I have already admitted my fault.

[Shadow]

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