How much Engineering does a Roboticist know?

[SomeoneOutTher3]

I have been wondering about this for quite a while. I think that roboticists would know a lot about engineering ICly, and I want to know just how much. This is what I think roboticists would know about engineering and why. If I am wrong, please correct me.

Electicity,wiring, and hacking:Both jobs would be taught how to do it. Engineers would be taught to do so because it is part of their job, and roboticists would also know everything about it because they have to wire mechs and robots as part of their jobs.

Construction: Engineers know everything about this because it is their job. Roboticists would be taught construction because they have to assemble mechs and robots. Being able to fix a hull breach by covering the entire area with lattices and floor tiles seems entirely plausible, since those two things don't seem far off from what one would do when assembling a mech (Connecting the parts together, adding plating,etc.). Building grilles is a matter of arranging metal rods into a net-like pattern and welding them together, something one would expect almost everyone to be able to do. Attaching windows to them? I would expect a roboticist to be able to do it due to having knowledge of construction in general as part of their job training. The iffy part is whether or not roboticists would be able to build walls, both reinforced and non-reinforced. I think roboticists would be able to at least make regular walls, since it is a matter of building a girder and adding plating to it. Roboticists would probably know how to connect steel beams together to make a girder, since they need to know how to connect metal components together as part of their jobs. As for adding plating to finish the wall, roboticists would definitely know how to do so, since they need to do it to assemble mechs. APCs and alarms would probably be within their ability to construct.

Piping: Obviously, engineering would know how to do it. As for robotics, I am pretty sure that one of the messages when assembling any mech says "You connect the hydraulics system of the [MECH NAME HERE]". And then "You secure the hydraulics system of the [MECH]". Doing both of those things is a matter of connecting pipes properly. In fact, it would seem like a harder thing to do than ordinary engineering piping, and thus make it seem like a roboticist would know how to do ordinary engineering piping. Installing pumps and filters would be iffy, and I would like some clarification on whether a roboticist would know how to do that.

Engine Setup: Right now, engine setup is a matter of connecting gas canisters to their appropriate canister ports and turning on the appropriate pumps. I think a roboticist, after taking some time to look around the engine and told what the engine waste loop is for, would be able to figure out how to set up the SM engine.As for the singularity and tesla engines, security the appropriate machinery to the ground would be within the ability of the Roboticist, but not assembling the particle accelerator. The reason I think securing the machinery to the ground would be within a roboticist's ability is that doing such things would be taught to roboticists because they need to be able to do so when assembling mechs.

TCOMM Scripting: Roboticists would be taught some programming because they would also need to be able to construct a new AI core. It is reasonable to assume they would know some TCOMM Scripting. And from what I can gather, very few engineering personnel know how to do NTSL Scripting.

[Pyrociraptor]

Honestly, while In term of mechanic, its the same thing, IRL, there's a difference.

Let me put my "Engineering student grain of salt".

Electrical: There is a difference between wiring the main powerline and some small electronics. Roboticist wiring an APC? Fine, if he's trained. Roboticist wiring the main station grid? Heeeeh, no.

Construction: There's also a big difference between constructing a wall girder, a wall and the station's floor. If we consider how the station would like, building said girders would require some precision, same for building the floor. There is a major difference between being able to shape/construct a robotic arm and building some floor. Not because you know how to assemble Glebükren, Ikea's lastest table, means you know how to actually make each components. So TL;DR: Roboticist building a window and the grills? Plausible. Roboticist fixing the station's hull breaches? Not really.

Hydraulic: This may be plausible, as hydraulic usually require more precisions. The roboticist could maybe be able to put some pipes together, but probably won't be able to make a super-complex system to filter various gases from one mixed-gas canister.

Engine: Remember, the game is "simplified for the user". While setting up the Engine OOCly is easy, ICly, its probably won't be. A roboticist probably lack the proper training to set up that glowing crystal of doom. A scientist that study nuclear physic doesn't necessarily know how to operate a nuclear power plant. Trust me on that.

Tcomm script: That one? Sure. Make sense, according to programming/coding knowledge.

Edit: Remember, everything in the game is simplified for gameplay purpose. May seems like if compared to IRL, but its not.

[Skull132]

Heyo, mechatronic engineering student here. Which is basically robotics, automation, so on.

Robotics in general is a really odd field. You get a decent amount of knowledge from mechanical and electronic engineering, but you specialize in niche (small scale) applications of that knowledge. Also going to note that course structure varies widely from university to university, so I can only speak for what I'm being taught and what I'll have to go through.

Electronics: Pretty much, as Pyro already said. Small scale electronics? Yup, can do. Soldering, wiring schemes, electrical schemes for robutts. But most of the education focuses on power systems that rarely exceed 25 volts and a mere handful of amps. Anything bigger is going to be an unknown. There's also a difference in components and approaches. I'm currently taking courses for computer construction, which has absoloutely nothing to do with the components you'd need in a large scale power setup. Nor are courses that would tell me about the latter in my future.

Construction: Materials differ, for one. We avoid construction materials and construction approaches. Instead, we focus on so called mechanical engineering materials and their application. Stuff like construction grade steel and concrete are something we don't get a lot of knowledge in, so we wouldn't know how to apply or work them.

There's also construction skills. I am getting taught how to weld, cast, and cut metal. However, that course exists to familiarize me with the common methods of industry, their upsides and downsides, and differences. I will probably not be able to make a sturdy construction for a construction job. Regarding the construction of mechs, a lot of it appears to be quite simple seam welding. Not requiring huge knowledge about reinforcing welds and so on. So, building walls, I'm very suspicious about. As that's a lot of welding, when compared to simple spot and seam welds on a mech/robutt.

Piping: Similar to electronics. Hydraulics and hydraulic drives are definitely a thing we get taught. However, that knowledge is widely different from the knowledge required to manage a large scale pipe loop. Machinery you get taught will be different, approach will differ, so on.

Engine: Nope. Beyond a general understanding of how shit might work, you would absoloutely not be able to set one up. Unless you have specific training for it. Fun fact, not even engineers could set one up without specific training. Qualification training exists to familiarize individuals with machinery.

TComms: Depends on the person's specialization. If they said, "Fuck it," to programming courses, then probably not. But computer science and IT are pretty integral to our course structure.

TL;DR: Yes and no. Scale differs. A lot. Simply because the actions carry the same name or similar notions does not mean the skills are immediately compatible. Robotics is small shit, surgery. Construction engineering is large stuff, building a house.

[Pyrociraptor]

Well, seems like you got both side. The Engineer's side, and the Mech Engy side.

[Skull132]

Well, seems like you got both side. The Engineer's side, and the Mech Engy side.

 

Well, to clarify. Mechatronic engineering, with my current course structure at my uni:

- Mechanical engineering: Very thoroughly. From the underlying maths, theoretical mechanics and analysis; to power plants (the small kind) and so on.

- Electronic engineering: Decent enough level, though the focus is on small scale. Basically, how to wire up microprocessors to inputs and outputs, and how all of the components involved are made.

- Programming: Low level programming, roughly 1 course per semester. So good enough!

- General design principles: not really applicable to SS13.

[Pyrociraptor]

And well, I'm gonna explain my knowledge due to my courses:

(Say hello to the French mess that is the French studying system.)

- Energy Engineering (dunno the correct translation. Basically where we learn about energy, as in "Nuclear powerplants, Solar panels, etc...". Its also learned as a minor course, just "in case".) Mostly apply for the "Electronic" and "Engine" part.

- Electronic engineering: Same as Skully. What I specialize in (hardware Pyro).

- Programming: Same as Skull. Apply for the Tcomm part.

- Civil Engineering: Mostly construction and architecturing. Also a side option. Apply for construction.

[SomeoneOutTher3]

Thank you for your answers to my question. Skull's answer is the best one so far. Would you say that hacking doors would fall under something a roboticist would know(Seems like a "Small-scale application"? What about securing machinery to the ground, such as an emitter or field generator? What about building an individual power unit, such as a PSU or SMES? SMES seem like something relatively small-scale. Lastly, I have seen some roboticist characters able to setup the solar arrays without engineering staff. Would that be plausible?

[Pyrociraptor]

Door hacking: That one is a bit tricky. I suppose Skull would be in a better position to answer that one, as I have no idea on what does a Mechatronic Engineer learn on wiring.

Securing Machinery: Securing "special" machinery usually require a bit of training. Roboticist securing an emitter to the floor? Seems plausible, even if it wouldn't be the most stable thing in existence. Roboticist also doing the wiring for said-emitter? See the part on electrical wiring, as it usually require being connected from the main powerline.

Powerunits: PSU and SMES, compared to "modern technology/knowledge", are two different things, so you get two different answer for each:

PSU: A roboticist building a PSU would be somewhat plausible. These thing are mostly a bunchload of batteries put together, and assuming your roboticist wasn't sleeping during courses, he would be able to do it. However, he would still require an adult (see: A trained personnel) to wire it properly outside.

SMES: No. A SMES is "basically" an oversized magnetic coil made for energy storage/redistribution. As the first line of Wikipedia says about these thing:

Superconducting Magnetic Energy Storage (SMES) systems store energy in the magnetic field created by the flow of direct current in a superconducting coil which has been cryogenically cooled to a temperature below its superconducting critical temperature.

Your roboticist would then need to be able to properly set up a superconducting coil, properly build said SMES to avoid as much parasites as you can, and be able to set up the cryogenical cooling just for the coil. And again, the whole wiring part comes in again. And I can assure you that just setting up a coil for certain things, such as a transformer, is already a pain and require a bit of training and precision.

Solar Panel: That one is a trick question. Wiring a Solar Panel seems plausible for a roboticist, at the condition that the wires on the arrays aren't "powergrid wires" (Admin (or maybe mapper) input required on that.) However, the trick question is that, to set up one of the station's solar array, you need to go... EVA. And I would doubt that your average roboticist have EVA training.

[Skull132]

Door hacking: A mechatronic engineer or a roboticist should be able to manage that just fine. Because doors are, basically, really fucking dumb robots. As long as the roboticist/mechatronics engineer has training with higher power pneumatics I guess, or is dumb enough not to be afraid of them. Not construction, though. Because metalwork.

Security machinery: I know what you're going to want out of this one. The answer is no, not without training specific to that piece of machinery.

Powerunits: What Pyro said. SMES are a fuckmassive, "Nope", because superconductors.

Solars: Depends on whether or not the guy has specific training for it and knows how to operate the specific equipment in question.

Addendum: Operating machinery is hard. You will not see a university educated head of development walk two floors down to the production floor and start showing the machinists what's what. That really does not happen ever. The head of development will know the principles behind the machines, and perhaps the general gist of the work, but he will not have the actual training required to set up the machines properly. A roboticist would know NT mechs and robots and related doo-dads like the back of his hand. Provided he's good, anyways. General bits of engineering, such as doors, he might be able to figure out, due to the simple nature of them. But specific machinery, such as emitters, SMES, etcetera? Nope. All foreign.

Same goes for engineers. Without training, all they'd be able to do on a borg is probably disconnect it from the power source and cut some wires.

[Fiskap]

Typically, for my own roboticist (that also has specific mechatronics qualifications) I allow her to handle most electrical/engineering equipment/complex devices as long as it's not too specialized (machinery specific to other departments, mostly) or too related to the main grid. For a robotics character with similar qualifications, it would probably be something like this:

Electrical: She and most roboticists can use multitools well, meaning that hacking airlocks or taking them apart is completely fine. Building them however, is another thing. Technically they could do it, but the airlock frame would be too complicated for a roboticist to build by hand. Possible? Yes, but too time-consuming. It's better to get help from an engineer for that.

Most complex devices are electrical-based, my own character could probably take apart almost everything, but building said devices is going to be hard if they're too specialized (job-specific equipment). An exosuit fabricator or autolathe is fine, but a SMES, chemistry dispenser or subspace broadcaster is just too specialized for someone who only tends to deal with a few specific robotics-related machines. Minor constructions such as APCs and air alarms would be fine. PSUs too. Even turrets could be built, if they can get the frame for it.

But what if the machinery is already assembled, and just needs to be relocated and secured to the floor? Typically no, for job-specific machinery. An emitter is more complicated than represented in the game. Knowledge of the grid is required for this.

And like I said, anything related to the main grid is too hard for her. At most she could only repair minor grid damage reliably well. As she got basic EVA training before coming to the station, she could technically set up solars, but it's still something too complex and specialized for her. If she tried to wire solars alone, she would just ruin everything and put knots everywhere. It would just never happen unless the station were really desperate for power. Setting up the SMES, however, is plausible to some extent probably. Just remember that they aren't supposed to know the main grid too well, and would probably mess up the values.

This kind of leaks into the next part now:

Engines: No, it's too specialized and complex. Advanced atmospherics knowledge, thermoelectric generator knowledge and main grid knowledge in general is required, and that's too much for a roboticist that never specialized in this. The engine is simplified ICly and it's just not possible. However, the emitter could probably be enabled or disabled. And again, the SMES could be configured. The SMES, however, could never be upgraded or repaired reliably well. Not much else.

The same goes with other engine types, it's too specialized and complex.

Atmospherics: Mechanically, some aspects of exosuits are atmospheric-based. Exosuits also need to refill their air canister at air connector ports, meaning that they could read air pressure and use connector ports for their exosuit, but not much else.

Construction: Generally, only small-scale construction. A table or window is completely fine. Building walls however is too much, and I have her stay away entirely from that. The same goes with patching hull breaches. Deconstructing walls may be plausible for simple ones, as roboticists know how to weld. But it's still going to require too much welding, and while possible, it's just hard and time-consuming.

And again for construction of complex devices, only machinery that is related to her line of work can be built reliably well.

Tcomms/IT: For tcomms, they could do the programming part. But they could never build or repair the tcomms equipment. Most other software could be figured out by them as well.

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So again, as long as it's not too advanced/job-specific, it should be fine to some extent. Also stay away from grid related aspects and non-electrical construction. But software-based things are fine, almost always.