Make the changeling more of a monster, less of an organic traitor

[driecg36]

Alright, I know there's a lot of suggestions for changeling, there's even one up right now, but I really do think it's the weakest antag (yes, worse than Rev) in terms of fun and round enjoyability.

The main problem with ling IMO is that it is too similar to other antag types, and doesn't bring many new or interesting things to the table (though it has the potential to). It currently exists as a hybrid between a traitor and a vampire, with neither of the things that make these two antags so interesting. Traitors have a massive amount of freedom in how they want to approach a situation, either through action, stealth, deceit, trickery, etc, while changelings really only have one option: get someone secluded, use an exterior stunning tool, succ them, rinse and repeat. Sure, impersonation RP is a lot of fun, but since there is such an obvious mark left (the husked corpse with your victim's DNA), you're gonna get found out sooner or later. Vampires, on the other hand, have things like dominate, embrace, and enthrall that involve other people into the round and create unique RP potential.

Rounds of changeling are often hard to tell apart from extended (except for select few people), as really the "best" way to play ling without getting memed by sec is silence sting -> kill -> hide body. Sure, this gamemode involves sec/the detective if the body gets found, but noone else is even going to realize what has happened.

Here is my proposal on how to fix the issue. It's a complete rework, and needs a lot of criticism to be something palatable.

Remove all the stings, and remove the chemical pool/gene unlocking tree. Instead, have a mechanic where whenever the changeling uses one of its new abilities, it gets closer and closer to turning into a horrible mass of flesh that regenerates very quickly, deals a massive amount of damage, and has some interesting abilities. This mass of flesh would look something like Goon's greater form, or just any scene from the Thing.

The only way to slow down this process would be to absorb more humans. There would be two ways of doing this currently: the current way, where you have to succ someone with a probscosis in human form, or the Fleshy Mass way, where you simply absorb the victim in your body, digest them for a bit, then turn into them with all their gear on, leaving no body.

Upon absorbing enough genes, the ling would be able to use all its abilities with no cost, and be able to switch from monster form to human form at any time.

 

Changelings would still have access to stasis in both forms, as well as the ability to transform to their other absorbed genes free of cost.

Human lings would keep arm blades as an ability, as well as some new ones:

Arm Blades: You morph your arm into a sharp blade made of organic material. This breaks whatever cuffs that are on you.

Extended Neck: Your head bursts in an explosion of blood, revealing a new appendage. This appendage can stun/bite people from 2 tiles away, as well as giving you a fast absorption rate.

Mutant Legs: Your legs split into four. You cannot be knocked down. Your walk speed is significantly slower, but you have an unnaturally fast sprint.

 

Instead of having a chemical cost, these abilities would make the ling get much closer to Mass form, and can't be reverted until you transform or you absorb enough genomes to have that ability.

The Fleshy Mass would have all of the abilities stated above, as well as the fast, (not really) traceless absorb.

Addendum: I know with the newmap meme and the massive swarm of suggestions, this really isn't the time to even consider this suggestion. However, I do thing Ling has a massive amount of untapped potential, and currently exists as my least favorite (and I'm fairly certain a lot of people feel the same way) game mode. Just read it, tell me what you think, tell me how you think it could be better.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Guest

[Kaed]

Eh. Ignoring that this entire thread uses way too many instances of the word 'meme', this is basically just a request to make changeling more like it is on Goon, i.e. based thematically on The Thing. It amuses me, though, that your primary complaint is 'ling is too much like traitor' and you turn around and suggest we 'make ling like vampire'. it seems to me that's taking one step forward and another big one back.

Let me tell you the problem with that, even if we again, ignore the inherent irony. Skullcode vampires aren't just antags that have to go around sucking blood and leaving corpses or they turn into monsters. There are whole aspects of their design that involve subterfuge, control, and misdirection. More often than not, vampires are encouraged to keep their victims alive and under their delicate control, rather than murder them.

What you have come up with here is essentially 'make the changelings murder people constantly or they out themselves as horrible monsters'. What other aspects does this introduce for people who are not interested in going on a murdering spree? The only path this idea seems to give is to be fucking disgusting and terrifying in an incredibly overt way, until security brings out flamethrowers and incinerates you into ash like how they deal with this in John Carpenter land. There isn't really a whole lot of middle ground here, because once you start using your abilities, everyone will want you dead. Sure it's scary, but it's also single-faceted and with 2-4 lings in a round, people will quickly become exhausted with screaming at Jin McNormal's head popping off and crawling away on spider legs or whatever.

The Thing was a scary movie because every scene with the monster was fresh terror, a new stomach-turning form of body horror they hadn't seen before. When you try to standardize that into a set of abilities in a game setting, it loses it's impact simply by rote of repetition. Someone tried to make a game once out of The Thing, and I played it. It got really old fast, and only the boss battles even had any impact (and that wasn't much)

[driecg36]

OK, I think you took my post as something way more aggressive and egregious than it was, and I'm sorry if I upset you because you like ling, but I really do think it needs changes, and I know for a fact a lot of other people do too.

I never said make ling more like vampire. Vampires are not extreme, disgusting monsters, nor did I ever imply they were. I would know, vamps are my favorite antag. Vampire are clever, subtle beings that use other to do their dirty work and play with the minds of their victims. My best vamp round, I had 4 thralls and 1200 blood without killing a single person. Using one example of one mechanic does not mean it is copying vampire. If you weren't so busy with the "irony", maybe you would've noticed that. Thematically and design wise, ling would have nothing to do with vamp.

The second half of your post is actually something worth discussing, so I will; I do see the problem with murderboneing, but as current lings stands, it really is not much better. The only way to actually expand upon your abilities is to kill people, and even though "absorb DNA" exists, it's not very useful since you cannot take their ID/clothes from afar either. I do agree that perhaps the ticking counter on the monster-o-meter may not be the best idea, but I do think that using ling transformations should eventually force you into monster mode.

Now, please tell me what the current ling brings to the table, aside from impersonation, which is still a thing in my suggestion? Is it fun to get mute stinged, then beat with a toolbox? Is it fun to get paralysis stinged and just be done with no chance to fight back?

Addendum: I've never played on goon, i've just heard of greater form and thought it was a lot more interesting than uncounterable stings that aren't even noticeable by anyone but the person getting stung. If an antag kills someone and noone ever finds out, was that antag ever there at all?

[Kaed]

OK, I think you took my post as something way more aggressive and egregious than it was, and I'm sorry if I upset you because you like ling, but I really do think it needs changes, and I know for a fact a lot of other people do too.

I never said make ling more like vampire. Vampires are not extreme, disgusting monsters, nor did I ever imply they were. I would know, vamps are my favorite antag. Vampire are clever, subtle beings that use other to do their dirty work and play with the minds of their victims. My best vamp round, I had 4 thralls and 1200 blood without killing a single person. Using one example of one mechanic does not mean it is copying vampire. If you weren't so busy with the "irony", maybe you would've noticed that. Thematically and design wise, ling would have nothing to do with vamp.

The second half of your post is actually something worth discussing, so I will; I do see the problem with murderboneing, but as current lings stands, it really is not much better. The only way to actually expand upon your abilities is to kill people, and even though "absorb DNA" exists, it's not very useful since you cannot take their ID/clothes from afar either. I do agree that perhaps the ticking counter on the monster-o-meter may not be the best idea, but I do think that using ling transformations should eventually force you into monster mode.

Now, please tell me what the current ling brings to the table, aside from impersonation, which is still a thing in my suggestion? Is it fun to get mute stinged, then beat with a toolbox? Is it fun to get paralysis stinged and just be done with no chance to fight back?

Addendum: I've never played on goon, i've just heard of greater form and thought it was a lot more interesting than uncounterable stings that aren't even noticeable by anyone but the person getting stung. If an antag kills someone and noone ever finds out, was that antag ever there at all?

 

Oh no, no no. Don't misunderstand me. Current ling is absolutely atrocious and awful. The entire design of the mechanics revolves around 'sting' mechanics, none of which are particularly interesting. That it needs to be changed is something we both agree on.

I just don't agree that going the direction of full horror movie is the right way to do it. That's why I submitted this thread https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8339 essentially suggesting we port Polaris ling set, which removes the most garbage sting varieties and provides a whole slew of other powers to use, along with giving you full access to your entire skill set as options. Yes, admittedly, a lot of them are very 'traitory', but I mainly meant this as an easy way to introduce some fresh new mechanics to what is an extremely stale, unpalatable game mode. I'm not opposed to it later being reworked into something slightly less derivative.

[driecg36]

I'm of the opinion that every game mode should bring something unique, and no other game mode really has a "horrible monster stalking the crew" thing going on. The closest thing we have to horror is cult, which is also in desperate need of a rework.

Personally, one of my favorite ss13 gamemodes is shadowling, just because that when the ling ascends and the lights go out, I get genuinely spooked.

I just think skipping the "make this bad mode less bad" step and going straight for the "make this gamemode good" step would be a more efficient solution. Though polaris lings are already a massive improvement over current lings, I still do think lings have more potential as being spooky alien monsters (and thus having their kit being built around that) and less organic tators.

I'm also sure there are ways to make them less murderboney, but lings are kind of an antag that needs to murder at least a little bit. It's a shame, but I don't see any way to rework it aside from deleting lings all together.