[Denied] Week Ban by Scheveningen

[Munks]

BYOND Key: Munks

Total Ban Length: 1 Week

Banning staff member's Key: Scheveningen

Reason of Ban: Shit deadchat attitude, being a dick. Was more intent on flinging crap in deadchat rather than responding to the staffmember for a discussion.

Reason for Appeal: As a result of ingame activity (trying to give someone an opportunity to surrender and getting silently headgibbed for it when I could have shot them) I'm pissed off in deadchat and calling powergamey actions for what they are. Scheveningen bwoinks me and literally just asks me something along the lines of "Are you incapable of not freaking out everytime you die ingame or something?"

This is a completely rhetorical question, from Scheveningen no less, that could have easily been asked in deadchat or something so I ask them to use normal dsay or whatever if they want to idly chat, and then go back to talking in deadchat. Scheveningen took this as a reason to write about how toxic and rude I am and that they're giving me a three day ban over it. Rather than argue with them, I simply respond with "Bye." because I'd rather get the ban over with and leave than log out there and risk getting hit with 'logging out during an adminhelp' or something. Scheveningen then took me saying "Bye." as being snarky in adminhelp and more than doubled it into a weeklong ban.

I'm not sure what sort of discussion Scheveningen was hoping to arouse from their initial message, but if they were interested in conversation then they could have worded it in a less bait manner. It was a stupid rhetorical question, baseless considering I hardly react strongly to being killed, and I didn't take it seriously. Whenever literally any other admin bwoinks me on this server, they act professional about it and I respond in kind, despite whatever "toxic attitude" Scheveningen thinks that I've made a habit of responding with in ahelps. I don't think that not taking "Are you incapable of not freaking out everytime you die ingame or something?" seriously as an adminhelp is worth a three day ban, and I don't see how responding with "Bye" to being told that I'm being banned is 'escalating' and worth turning it into a seven day ban. Should I have argued with it instead, or just silently logged off while being talked to? Please elaborate

[Scheveningen]

It wasn't a rhetorical question. I 100% expected you to answer it sincerely and you turned around and gave me an insincere answer and didn't reply for minutes after that, focused your attention further by flinging deadchat abuse the way of the antagonists that killed you (as you usually do). You are aware that staff recognize this as a common issue with you, yes?

 

Rather than argue with them, I simply respond with "Bye." because I'd rather get the ban over with and leave than log out there and risk getting hit with 'logging out during an adminhelp' or something. Scheveningen then took me saying "Bye." as being snarky in adminhelp and more than doubled it into a weeklong ban.

 

Isn't it counter-intuitive to appeal a ban if you're going to have this attitude? If you actually attempted to engage in a discussion with me by being honest the ban duration would not be as long. I was legitimately hoping you would actually discuss these issues with me instead of blowing me off. "I would rather take a ban rather than waste time with this discussion" is an awfully immature way to handle interactions with staff members, and I'm not sure what you expect to accomplish with this ban appeal if you've already shown you don't care whether or not you get banned either. Do you really want to be unbanned? Because the signs don't quite show it.

I did double it because it was snarky the way you responded. It shows you have little care for talking. Ergo, if you show you think the discussion is a waste of time by the way you phrase your response, then I don't need to waste my time either. And perhaps you think your time on this server is also a waste of time, and we do not need to oblige you to waste your time and ours by acting in this rather destructive way. Isn't that fair?

 

Should I have argued with it instead, or just silently logged off while being talked to?

 

Yes, you absolutely should've "argued" with it. I have been known to be lenient and retract statements of how long a ban is going to be if someone decides they're going to be more responsive. I have been known to not be lenient when the subject of discussion decides they aren't going to interact at all. No, you shouldn't have silently logged off for it because it would've caused the same effect.

If you want to play on this server and have fun with it, you need to recognize it's a necessary requirement to actually respond to staff no matter how they engage you. Ignoring them and choosing to selectively respond to deadchat to fling more crap at (which you have a history of doing) will net you a ban.

The only regret I have was that I didn't have the opportunity to engage in a proper discussion with you due to how you reacted. I resorted to the measure I displayed because I knew it'd be a waste of my time and yours given how you reacted to my attempts at communication.

[Munks]

I'm not sure how you'd see how your opening question, "Are you incapable of not freaking out everytime you die ingame?" however it was worded, to be anything but inflammatory in a situation like this. I responded with what I was given. Ask literally any other admin that speaks to me, and see how many recall me being snarky or pissy in admin PMs in response to actual professionalism.

 

Isn't it counter-intuitive to appeal a ban if you're going to have this attitude? If you actually attempted to engage in a discussion with me by being honest the ban duration would not be as long. I was legitimately hoping you would actually discuss these issues with me instead of blowing me off. "I would rather take a ban rather than waste time with this discussion" is an awfully immature way to handle interactions with staff members, and I'm not sure what you expect to accomplish with this ban appeal if you've already shown you don't care whether or not you get banned either. Do you really want to be unbanned? Because the signs don't quite show it.

Attitude? I was taking the three day rather than bothering to argue with it, and I acknowledged it by saying bye instead of, again, silently logging off or being quiet and sitting there waiting for it to happen.

 

I did double it because it was snarky the way you responded. It shows you have little care for talking. Ergo, if you show you think the discussion is a waste of time by the way you phrase your response, then I don't need to waste my time either. And perhaps you think your time on this server is also a waste of time, and we do not need to oblige you to waste your time and ours by acting in this rather destructive way. Isn't that fair?

Again. I'm not sure why you're trying to take it this far. I said 'bye', acknowledging a ban and getting it over with. You're spinning it into "oh, i guess you think being on this server at all is a waste of time, too, hmm?" trying to take it even further.

 

Yes, you absolutely should've "argued" with it. I have been known to be lenient and retract statements of how long a ban is going to be if someone decides they're going to be more responsive. I have been known to not be lenient when the subject of discussion decides they aren't going to interact at all. No, you shouldn't have silently logged off for it because it would've caused the same effect.

I was being rude in deadchat, and you took issue with it through Rule 1 -- "Don't be a dick". Sure. Fair game. I didn't argue with it because I didn't see any reason to, because I recognize how it'd break rule 1. No, I didn't argue. Nor did I silently log off. I said "Bye" to get it over with, and you took "Bye" as an excuse to double the ban, because, not as satisfying?

[Scheveningen]

I was being rude in deadchat, and you took issue with it through Rule 1 -- "Don't be a dick". Sure. Fair game. I didn't argue with it because I didn't see any reason to, because I recognize how it'd break rule 1. No, I didn't argue. Nor did I silently log off. I said "Bye" to get it over with, and you took "Bye" as an excuse to double the ban, because, not as satisfying?

 

"Not as satisfying?" Is that what you're accusing me of?

No. I doubled the ban because I have zero tolerance for childish responses and a player refusal to recognize toxic behavior. If you had said, "Sorry", even if you didn't mean it, it would've radically changed the outcome to a warning.

If you had said, "You're right, I apologize and will stop," this shows me you recognize that you should've exercised restraint and understand you were being an asshole and you'll do better.

What you did instead was not verbally recognize this and think it wouldn't matter what you said since you thought you were going to be banned anyway, so you chose not to try to have a discussion or own up to any degree of culpability. And then add onto you being rude and standoffish in your response to me. Yes, you can do that in one word, that is how powerful context is. I have zero obligation to just take that attitude. It is rude and childish. Resorting to blame me for how you respond to other people is ridiculous.

[Munks]

Am I not inherently recognizing that my behavior is toxic by not arguing with the 3-day when it was given to me...? You went from your baity intro about how I 'freak out' all the time to a Rule 1 ban, and I saw no issue with it, so I acknowledged it and wanted to get the process over with. Yes, when you suddenly come out with a paragraph about why you're now banning me, that leads me to conclude that I'm about to be banned, regardless of how I react to it. Why would I argue with it if I understand why it's happening and have no issue with it?

[Scheveningen]

Am I not inherently recognizing that my behavior is toxic by not arguing with the 3-day when it was given to me...?

 

You barely said anything of substance so no, I couldn't assume that you understood that.

 

Yes, when you suddenly come out with a paragraph about why you're now banning me, that leads me to conclude that I'm about to be banned, regardless of how I react to it.

 

Because you blew me off by not responding to me seriously.

 

Why would I argue with it if I understand why it's happening and have no issue with it?

 

It is not just about arguing! What can I say to emphasize further as to how important it is to be taking communication attempts from staff seriously, to an extent that you'd understand?

[Scheveningen]

Appeal denied. This will expire by itself in less than a few days.