Moral's Ban Appeal

[MoralsManners]

BYOND Key: DaBurs

Total Ban Length: Permanent (Seriously?)

Banning staff member's Key: Garnascus

Reason of Ban: Defending myself in an elevator that had an antagonist in it, helping officers in that same elevator fight off two seperate ambushes.

Reason for Appeal: This ban is insanely ridiculous. I was in the elevator unknowing that the two security guards were dealing with an antagonists, until shots started being fired. I paniced ICly, punched the merc in the gut once or twice and stood in the corner of the elevator. A second merc shows up, starts firing and gets knocked down. I take his gun, throw it away from him and back up. He stands back up and keeps struggling with officers. I pick up a random stun laser from the floor and fire a single (1) shot at him, shout ICly and drop the gun.

Garnascus proceeds to tell me how stupid I am, and how I should have just ran blindly away from security by myself to other parts of the station while I was politely trying to explain to him that maybe being by yourself in a situation where the station is being raided isn't such a good idea. The way he typed was very disjointed, ungrammatical and gives me the impression he is probably under the age of 18. He way he handled this apparent admin report was completely immature, and what I did not only didn't call for a permanent ban, but I feel any ban whatsoever. I was simply defending myself as two mercenaries were in an intense gunfight within five feet of me and trying to be a good samartian by helping the officers at the same time. All of my actions were roleplayed in-character, and in no instance did I go full murderer-minge and spam attack the mercenaries. In total I must have performed only three or four attack actions at most, and spent most of the time roleplaying out my injuries that I recieved from the mercenaries.

I'd also like this to be considered an informal staff report against Garnascus, who in all my time on this server I have never seen act so childish and unprofessional. I would really like to call into question if he was even sober from how bad he was slurring his own typing.

[Garnascus]

i asked you "hey please dont do this thing"

you told me "no i will do this thing when i want to"

you then told me "you must be really bored. get off your power trip sweetheart"

If i tell you to do something in an ahelp you have to do it. You not only told me you would refuse to do it that way but you then insulted me. you could have just retreated a safe distance. that would have been fine. 

Quote

ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): There is such a thing as good samaritan and self defense laws and I'll use them if I want, sorry man.

ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): Get off your power trip, sweetheart.

Also its probably best if when making a ban appeal you do not call into question whether or not the admin is drunk.....

[Garnascus]

gimme a sec ill post the full logs. was on my phone for a bit. 

[Garnascus]

Quote

ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): Whats up?
ADMIN: PM: Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke)->DaBurs/(Logan Cullum): why did you assist security fight that person?
ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): Cause we were all in very close proximity in an elevator and I was very scared for my life, and got a spike in my thigh for my efforts.
ADMIN: PM: Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke)->DaBurs/(Logan Cullum): no i watched you leave from the top elevator and then follow them into the lower elevator.
ADMIN: PM: Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke)->DaBurs/(Logan Cullum): you could have and should have just run. 
ADMIN: PM  DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): I had no idea that they were even antags until I was in the elevator itself.
ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): There are several logs of me asking who they are.
ADMIN: PM: Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke)->DaBurs/(Logan Cullum): fair, but when you can retreat you have to. you're an atmos tech. you are not security
ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): Well my thinking is there were three security in this elevator, and they were telling me to go out on my own while there were other mercs or traitors or whatever around and I thought that was pretty unsafe, I just wanted to stay close to security  is all
ADMIN: PM: Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke)->DaBurs/(Logan Cullum): that is very dumb thinking
ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): I switched elevators when they told me to leave, then they got in the elevator I was in after I reported I had a spike in my leg so it worked out
ADMIN: PM: Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke)->DaBurs/(Logan Cullum): just dont get involved in fights like that
ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): I don't think so? Running off away from security by yourself in a station that has mercs in it is dumb?
ADMIN: PM: Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke)->DaBurs/(Logan Cullum): that is so vague it does not justify fighting an antag with security
ADMIN: PM: Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke)->DaBurs/(Logan Cullum): do not do it again please
ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): Vague? You must be really bored to still be bugging me right now.
ADMIN: PM: Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke)->DaBurs/(Logan Cullum): no, the rules are rules.
ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): There is such a thing as good samaritan and self defense laws and I'll use them if I want, sorry man.
ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): Get off your power trip, sweetheart.
ADMIN: PM: Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke)->DaBurs/(Logan Cullum): ok goodbye then

So. fight or flight is a thing and generally non-sec need to err on the side of retreating. the elevator doors where not closed so it was possible to retreat a safe distance and still remain near security. Wanting to remain near security is fine but helping them fight in that situation was not fine. That is why i said it was dumb. This was only going to be a note but it turned into a permaban due your unwillingness to listen to me and then insulting me. Do you have anything to say about any of this?

[MoralsManners]

I never insulted you and the logs you just posted prove that, and my reasons are valid and stand up to basic logic and survival instinct. Even with that I only did a max of four attacks, three of them with my bare fists to the chest area. I still maintain a permanent ban is so grossely overkill for what happened that this whole case is pathetic. I have nothing else to say to you personally, and hope a different admin can respond to this thread.

[Garnascus]

13 minutes ago, MoralsManners said:

I never insulted you and the logs you just posted prove that

ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): Vague? You must be really bored to still be bugging me right now.

ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): Get off your power trip, sweetheart.

ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): Get off your power trip, sweetheart.

 

ADMIN: PM: DaBurs/(Logan Cullum)->Garnascus/(Manuel Clarke): Get off your power trip, sweetheart

 

[MoralsManners]

Again, where is the insult? I'm sorry but telling someone when they are abusing their power isn't an 'insult'.

[Lady Fowl]

You insulted them by implying they were unable to speek/type properly or they were drunk.

I was there for the incident and to be perfectly honest, you were being a complete dick to them. It doesnt matter if you feel they are right or wrong, acting like you are the big dick will never end you up anywhere in admin tickets or these situations. If you felt it was unjust, you make a complaint, not refuse to listen and tell staff off like that. That isnt the type of attitude thats really welcomed anywhere

[MoralsManners]

Me saying he was having a powertrip isn't warranted for a permanent ban from the server, I don't care what you think. I said nothing of him being drunk or being unable to articulate his words properly until I was actually banned, and before that point all I did say was that he was having his little powertrip. Which, my point was obviously proven, because I was permanently banned for an extremely small offense.

Also like I mentioned in my original post, this is an informal staff complaint; and addressing how a Head Admin is having serious issues articulating sentences, communicating and managing his power as an admin are very real and valid criticisms. He can choose to be insulted by the citicisms instead of taking them to heart, but that doesn't make them insults in and of themselves.

Edited April 21, 2019 by MoralsManners

[Lady Fowl]

22 minutes ago, MoralsManners said:

Me saying he was having a powertrip isn't warranted for a permanent ban from the server, I don't care what you think. I said nothing of him being drunk or being unable to articulate his words properly until I was actually banned, and before that point all I did say was that he was having his little powertrip. Which, my point was obviously proven, because I was permanently banned for an extremely small offense.

Also like I mentioned in my original post, this is an informal staff complaint; and addressing how a Head Admin is having serious issues articulating sentences, communicating and managing his power as an admin are very real and valid criticisms. He can choose to be insulted by the citicisms instead of taking them to heart, but that doesn't make them insults in and of themselves.

So make a complaint, not a ban appeal. Ban appeals are for people who are accepting of there ban and wish to appeal it, not quasi complaints

[MoralsManners]

No, ban appeals are for people appealing their ban. Which is the main reason I made this post. As a moderator yourself, you should know that much. The complaints I made against Garnascus are secondary to that (but still valid complaints), and I won't bother filing a formal complaint because I see Garnascus has had many of those filed against him before and these kind of reports from what I can garner never give any results and can be compared to shouting into a void. If you're done getting acquainted with the prefix 'quasi' I'd really like to get my ban appealed already.

Edited April 22, 2019 by MoralsManners

[Garnascus]

I will explain why i permanently banned you. 
 

1. You refused to listen to what i told you to do in an ahelp.

2. You explicitly told me you would continue doing what i told you not to do.

3. You insulted me 

All you had to do was say something like "Alright garn i understand that next time i can just retreat a safe distance. This way i can remain near security if i want to and still not get involved in fights", Instead you made an appeal in which you implied i was drunk. I am sorry but i will be denying this appeal. You are free to make another one at your convenience.