Staff Complaint - ShesTrying

[Asura]

BYOND Key: Xero The Reaper

Staff BYOND Key: ShesTrying

Game ID: b4H-ckMF

Reason for complaint: She winds my character and then permits security to arrest me immediately following. She bans me for what she claims is a lack of escalation prior to welder-bombing, and because I express to her my opinion that she's incorrect and unwilling to listen to me based on my prior warnings. Total lack of professional demeanor as well as abrasive attitude which she projects onto me. Following her actions, I refused to roleplay because I felt as though the round was botched by her intervention. I suppose this wasn't the best choice on my part, but I could have just went to cryo anyway.

Evidence/logs/etc:

You have been winded by a member of staff! Please stand by until they contact you!
  Forktress: anyone else lagging?
ShesTrying has added themself to your ticket and should respond shortly. Thanks for your patience!
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: Why
  diggiez: did you know Pope Francis has a fucking rock albulm
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
  shestrying: stop
  shestrying: he's winded
  shestrying: remove the cuffs
  to ShesTrying: we're performing a terrorist attack
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: With what escalation?
  Jason Kilroy: my bad, thought it was the explosion
  to ShesTrying: admins rushed us to do something in aooc
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
  shestrying: it's fine.
  to ShesTrying: its part of our plan.
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: You need escalation to do things like welderbomb
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
  shestrying: no touching.
...You almost hear someone talking...
  to ShesTrying: we've robbed the armory
...You almost hear someone talking...
  to ShesTrying: inst that escalation
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
...You almost hear someone talking...
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: What roleplay have you done to validate that?
  to ShesTrying: its not my fault they didnt catch us
  to ShesTrying: im doing what my team asked of me
  shestrying: nu
  shestrying: winded
...You hear something about...En
  Akinyi Idowu: ah
  shestrying: bAD
  Akinyi Idowu: i expected nothing more
...You almost hear someone talking...
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: You did that with no roleplay escalation at all.
  to ShesTrying: idk why admins complain in aooc for us to spice up the round then they mess up the spice
...You hear something about...bad
...You almost hear someone talking...
Central Command Update
Non-Command Pay Cut
Due to internal decisions, all wages of non-command staff will be reduced 15%.  Please, keep operation functional.


... You can almost hear someone talking ...
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: Nobody 'messed up' but you.
  to ShesTrying: ask my team if we've escalated
...You almost hear someone talking...
  to ShesTrying: we've escalated, ask my team
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: I'm asking what you have done, roleplay wise, to make this acceptable
  shestrying: STOP
...You almost hear someone talking...
  shestrying: aaaAAA
  shestrying: no touch
...You almost hear someone talking...
  shestrying: winded
  shestrying: no touch
...You almost hear someone talking...
...You hear something about...Ah
  Budget Bot: oh
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
  Budget Bot: Why doesn't examine give such a warning lol
  to ShesTrying: MY TEAM HAS ROBBED THE ARMORY, MADE A FALSE COMMAND REPORT, MADE SEVERAL MOLOTOVS AND EVEN HAD A RUN-IN WITH SEC WHO TRIED TO RAID US WITHOUT A WARRANT
  shestrying: please sto
...You almost hear someone talking...
  shestrying: just leave him
...You almost hear someone talking...
  to ShesTrying: We've escalated.
...You almost hear someone talking...
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
...You almost hear someone talking...
  to ShesTrying: The bomb was to get their attention.
...You almost hear someone talking...
...You almost hear someone talking...
...You almost hear someone talking...
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
  Budget Bot: ignore them
  to ShesTrying: by now we would have made an announcement on comms about it
  to ShesTrying: but you're stalling the rp
...You almost hear someone talking...
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
...You almost hear someone talking...
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
...You almost hear someone talking...
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: Who saw you rob the armory? The command report was about pay, not bombings. Have you used the molotovs? What happened with the run in wirh sec?
  Xero The Reaper: can antags tell ShesTrying that we have indeed escalated
...You almost hear someone talking...
  Xero The Reaper: since she seems to think my welderbomb was random
  ShesTrying(Moderator): I'll bwoink who I need to.
  Xero The Reaper: you're incorrect
  Xero The Reaper: we've fucking done our job here
...You almost hear someone talking...
...You almost hear someone talking...
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
  Message from Luxury Replicas (Unknown / spam?), "Watches, Jewelry & Accessories, Bags & Wallets !" (Unable to Reply)
  Xero The Reaper: we're making the round interesting
...You hear something about...throughout
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
  ShesTrying(Moderator): Stop, or I'll be muting your aooc. Keep any grievances in the ticket.
...You hear something about...get
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: You need to calm down.
...You hear something about...are
...You almost hear someone talking...
  to ShesTrying: I feel harrassed. I'm trying to play the round and you've literally haulted everything. I only did what was asked of me by my team.
...You almost hear someone talking...
...You almost hear someone talking...
...You almost hear someone talking...
  to ShesTrying: how is this good for the round, what ur doing?
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: I'm getting to the bottom of it. Just wait a moment while I speak to the other antagonists. I'm going to unwind you now, don't do anything drastic.
... You can almost hear someone talking ...
  Message from QuickDatingSystem (Unknown / spam?), "You have (1) new message!" (Unable to Reply)
You push the the welding helmet up out of your face.
[Common] Arrivals Announcement Computer states, "A new Cyborg is inbound from the NTCC Odin."
Central Command Update
Lifesign Alert
Unknown biological entities have been detected near NSS Aurora, please stand-by.


  Colfer: I want to make a working joe like I did on baystation
Jason Kilroy says, "Do not tell me where not to go."
Ken'ichi Nakamoto says, "Whoa."
Jason Kilroy says, "Oh, the bomber."
  Colfer: But I feel like that would be hesterical
  Forktress: sweats
  Colfer: hysterical*
Aytek Han'San says, "Arrest them."
  Ken'ichi Nakamoto: wtf u doing
  *beep*
Aytek Han'San says, "If they're the bomber."
  Ken'ichi Nakamoto: you cvantr arrest me
Jason Kilroy says, "Hands behind your head."
  Ken'ichi Nakamoto: i was admin winded
You are not supposed to go past the police tape...
  Jason Kilroy: i saw you
Aytek Han'San says, "As I was saying."
Aytek Han'San says, "May I ask why you are ho-"
Aytek Han'San says, "Exit please."
  Forktress: that would be stupid who...w-who would do something like that
  Ken'ichi Nakamoto: i was winded mate, you didnt see shit
Ken'ichi Nakamoto says, "Whoa."
  Jason Kilroy: i saw you before you were winded
  Aytek Han'San: They can still arrest you for tresspassing
Fatima Tadhhab says, "Well, let me introduce myself."
  Aytek Han'San: dummy
  Ktrkhop: you are becoming hysterical
  Ken'ichi Nakamoto: then thats meta
  Jason Kilroy: carrying the weldertank
  Dark1Star: kek
  Colfer: Please, let me help you.
  Jason Kilroy: how is that meta?
  shestrying: Dtop this in ooc. They saw you before you were winded.
  Aytek Han'San: its not meta, stop whining
  Forktress: TUT, TUT
  shestrying: Stop this. If you have an issue, ahelp.
Jason Kilroy says, "Hands behind your head, Nakamoto."
  Dark1Star: you must be new to the Aurora. welcome
  Ken'ichi Nakamoto: so admin winds me and i walk here and get arrested?
Fatima Tadhhab says, "My name is Fatima, Workers Representative of the Workers Party for the Biesel Dismantling."
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: You have had issues with escalation before.
  Ken'ichi Nakamoto: nope, i wont even rp
Attention! Security level elevated to blue.
The station has received reliable information about possible hostile activity on the station. Security staff may have weapons visible, random searches are permitted.
Jason Kilroy is attempting to put handcuffs on Ken'ichi Nakamoto!
Aytek Han'San says, "My name is Aytek Han'San."
  Colfer: Nanotrasen, relentless in the procuit of affordable quality.
  to ShesTrying: Doesn't matter. I did what I was supposed to.
Jason Kilroy has put handcuffs on Ken'ichi Nakamoto!
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: The welder bomb was inappropriate, you've been here long enough to know that.
Jason Kilroy says, "Fair enough."
Aytek Han'San says, "I am from Dominia, and I work for Nanotransen."
  Colfer: prosuit*
You are not supposed to go past the police tape...
  Bauser: pursuit?
  to ShesTrying: Now you've messed up the entire antag round, gj
  Forktress: sweats harder
  Ktrkhop: i will be with you shortly
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: Alright.
  to ShesTrying: The bomb was not inappropriate.
[Common] Fatima Tadhhab says, "Workers, arise."
  to ShesTrying: I did what my team asked of me ICly.
  to ShesTrying: I was roleplaying.
[Common] Arrivals Shuttle Oversight states, "Central Command Arrivals shuttle inbound to NSS Aurora. ETA: one minute."
  Colfer: *IPC gets set on fire* "Only wild animals fear fire."
[Common] Fatima Tadhhab says, "This conditions can be easily changed with the general strike."
Jason Kilroy talks into the security radio headset
Jason Kilroy asks, "AI, can you raise the lockdown on the brig?"
  to ShesTrying: Now I'm being arrestd because you winded me.
  Forktress: theres definetly no characters like that on station already ha ha
  to ShesTrying: It's unfair.
The Emergency Shutter opens for Jason Kilroy.
[Common] Fatima Tadhhab says, "Security is pretty much disarmed at this point."
  Colfer: there needs to be more
[Common] Alice Gough says, "You... Uh..."
[Common] Jaquelyn Roberts says, "I don'tthink it's that simple..."
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: And oocly you should have known it was not appropriate. In the future, take care with escalation. Security saw you before you were winded.
  Colfer: nanotrasen is RELENTLESS in the pursuit of affordable quality
[Common] A.I.M.M.O. asks, "Strike ? whats going on ?"
[Common] Michael says, "I belive we're more focused on the bombing right now then the paycut."
  to ShesTrying: And all my warnings regarding escalation have expired.
[Common] Alice Gough says, "You know, the people who "disarmed" security almost killed me."
  to ShesTrying: I would have escaped if you didn't wind me.
  to ShesTrying: And you know that.
[Common] Ickthar Slithiss asks, "What iss the general plan here? Murder people for more wagesss?"
  FluffyBirb: how do I make funny robit noises
  to ShesTrying: fix it, please.
[Common] Jaquelyn Roberts says, "Gough, if you are injured, turn your sensors up."
Jason Kilroy talks into the security radio headset
Jason Kilroy asks, "Alternatives for prisoner detainment?"
  Colfer: by booopingng
[Common] Ickthar Slithiss says, "That ssseemss to be an unwisse coursse of action."
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: I am going to be applying a warning. When I unwinded you, you walked right up to security. Not a smart move. You could have walked away.
  Colfer: yoo booop
You are not supposed to go past the crumpled police tape...
Jason Kilroy is restraining Ken'ichi Nakamoto, you cannot push past
  Colfer: and then the funny noise getz made
  Forktress: *buzz, *beep, *ping
Fatima Tadhhab says, "Release them."
Aytek Han'San says, "No."
  to ShesTrying: How was I to know what happened after you confused my entire round?
Aytek Han'San says, "WE will not."
  FluffyBirb: Omg thank
  to ShesTrying: Do you ever admit you're wrong?
Aytek Han'San talks into the security radio headset
Jason Kilroy says, "Your fella' for our guns."
Aytek Han'San says, "Ah yes."
Aytek Han'San says, "THat is quite a good deal."
  to ShesTrying: And do you enjoy picking on players who have been around for a decade?
Aytek Han'San says, "Take it if you want it."
Aytek Han'San says, "I'm going to repair this wall."
Fatima Tadhhab aims the laser rifle at Jason Kilroy!
Jason Kilroy says, "The three guns."
Layla Al'Khalida injects themselves with the autoinhaler (hyperzine)
Fatima Tadhhab says, "Release them I said."
  to ShesTrying: I cannot metagame the IC.
You are not supposed to go past the crumpled police tape...
  *beep*
[Engineering] Shard of Aether states, "Greetings, Shard Unit Aether online."
  [Moderator PM] ShesTrying: If you continue like this I'm gong to apply a tempban.
  to ShesTrying: I did what my team asked of me.
[Common] Michael says, "Please stop shootign into medical."
  to ShesTrying: Ban for what, exactly?
[Common] WU-458148 says, "Delivery: Aileen Leichter: Aurora II, engineering lobby."
  to ShesTrying: I'm not breaking a rule by expressing my opinion to you.
Layla Al'Khalida is trying to remove Ken'ichi Nakamoto's handcuffs!
  Layla Al'Khalida: holy shit
  Layla Al'Khalida: HYPERZINE
  Ken'ichi Nakamoto: im not even rping
Layla Al'Khalida twitches violently.
  Ken'ichi Nakamoto: admin winded me and let sec catch me
[Common] Ickthar Slithiss says, "Pleasse sstop sshooting in general.  You need a clear motive and demandss before you sstart fighting.  You can't jusst generally foment revolusssion on the vague notion of 'wagess are too low'."
  Colfer: an admin slapped me for being mean as an AI and it made me feel really bad
[Common] Aytek Han'San says, "Exactly."
[Common] Michael says, "You also almost shot medical staff."
[Common] Aytek Han'San says, "PSA to all staff, please avoid medical and engineering."
[Common] Aytek Han'San says, "They have begun a hostile takeover of the ship."
[Common] Jaquelyn Roberts yells, "What?!"
[Common] Nina Thompson asks, "What's wrong with medical?"
[Common] Michael says, "Medical hasn't."
[Common] Nina Thompson asks, "What?"
[Common] Aytek Han'San says, "Not medical, rather."
[Common] Reese Fields exclaims, "Stop shootin' folk!"
[Common] Aytek Han'San says, "Apologies."
  Colfer: My job is to open and close doors.
[Common] Alice Gough says, "Command."
[Common] Aytek Han'San says, "Research."
[Common] Norin Vikentiy says, "Rrresearrch is not taking overr the station."
Layla Al'Khalida shivers.
[Common] Alice Gough asks, "Security needs the restrictions on maintenance lifted. Is that possible?"
[Common] Norin Vikentiy asks, "What is talking about?"
[Common] Aytek Han'San asks, "Robotics, rather?"
[Common] Reese Fields shouts, "Research ain't doin' shit!"
[Common] Michael says, "Well, whoever is, stop shooting at medical."
[Common] Aytek Han'San says, "Robotics and engineering."
  to ShesTrying: You are the one who botched the round, not me. You cannot ban me for feeling that way. That's abuse.
[Common] Reese Fields yells, "I'm at th' kitchen eatin'!"
[Common] Shard of Aether states, "Warning: Carp detected. Location: Construction."
You have been banned by shestrying.
Reason: As a headrev, you decided to blow up the security lobby with little to no escalation from the rev's side. This in itself isn't enough for a ban, but your concurrent horrible attitude in admin PMS, your refusal to listen to staff when they told you to stop complaining in AOOC, and then LOOC, and your protesting by refusing to roleplay at all is what garnered this ban. Clean it up, or more severe action will be taken. Come back with a new attitude..
This is a temporary ban, it will be removed in 1440 minutes.

Additional remarks: I do not think this particular person is capable of wielding authority without using it to harass those of us who are merely trying to provide interesting roleplay for the community. I would also appreciate being unbanned since I literally did nothing ban-worthy.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Asura
typo

[ShesTrying]

Hello! I’m very sorry you felt that I was abrasive in our ticket, as that was not my intention at all. In the future for complaints, please remember to wait until the round is over to post them, as this constitutes IC in OOC and is against our rules, as said in the complaint format. Now-- allow me to respond.

You’re right that bombing the lobby by itself was not worthy of a ban-- your dayban was placed because you were breaking rule number one-- don’t be a dick.

I will admit, I was slow with the winding. I was aiming to wind you before you could blow the tank up, and wound up winding you as you ran out the door (and into a security member.) As you will notice from the logs, however, I didn’t allow them to arrest you. I told them to take the handcuffs off of you, as you were winded. Let’s go through what happened during the ticket, however, point by point.

You took a welding tank into security. There was a vaurca cadet in the lobby-- not a word was said by you as you set up your bomb, and fired your laser into it, nearly killing the vaurca with no words spoken. You got out the door, and you were winded. I bwoinked you, asking you why, and when a security officer stopped by to cuff you, I had them uncuff you.

During the ticket, instead of answering my questions, you proceeded to devolve into insults, accusations, and complaints. While I tried to clear things up with you, you continued to complain about the winding itself, and went into AOOC to complain, which I asked you to stop.

When I did unwind you, security was nowhere near you. You were in an empty hallway. I said ‘don’t do anything drastic’ and, despite still being in a ticket with me, you went straight up to security, and proceeded to complain to them in LOOC, and tell them that they couldn’t arrest you, while standing in a large group of security members who were not even looking for you, nor looking to find you, as you were winded, and they were instructed to stay away. This, in my books, counts as something drastic. 

You then, after being caught by the security members that you walked in to, announced in LOOC that you were not going to roleplay at all, and even once saved, you decided that roleplay was not something you needed to do, and shirked off the revolutionary trying to interact with you. 

Still, you had not answered my questions, insulted me, and continued to shirk any responsibility for the actions you did take. This is what netted you a ban, not your poor escalation with welderbombs-- which was, still, poor escalation.  You cannot expect to remain on this server with a horrible attitude, towards staff and players. I was being as lenient as I could, but there is only so much leniency you can have when people just can’t understand that what they are doing is wrong.

In the end, all we ask of you as staff is to follow the rules and be cordial to us in ahelps. Life is a two-way street; you get back what you put out. Had you answered my questions, this whole situation likely would have ended in a warning, maybe even a note. Please remember that we are people, too, and underhanded comments, poor attitude, and snide remarks will get you nothing but banned.

Please see the attached cleaned up ticket logs, and note the timestamp between 19:49:35 and 19:51:38 is when the complaining in aooc started.

[Asura]

I thought the guy was SSD and neglected to cryo, which I personally have gotten warned for several times, so I assumed he was at fault in that regard. What manner of cadet doesn't address someone who enters security, especially under the circumstances?

You shouldn't have winded me at all, especially right in front of security lobby. Winding me solved nothing. You could have bwoinked me and discussed with me and not destroyed the primary antagonist of the round to begin with???

I was the one who broke into command, then proceeded to rob the armory, all after having constructed an array of molotovs from bedsheets with my associate Dimitri while our contacts in Research created propoganda pamphlets and had run-ins with security. Meanwhile you claim we did nothing to escalate the round, which was another reason I got upset since I felt like we were all working coherently and cohesively as an antag team in order to do precisely that.

And yes -- as you were so quick to throw in my face during our PMS -- I DO have several warnings regarding escalation. What makes you think I wouldn't take precaution to prevent this from happening to me again, since I love playing on this server?

Edited December 14, 2019 by Asura

[ShesTrying]

I'm not going to toss insults back and forth, so I'll keep this brief. As I said, I tried to wind you before you shot the welder tank. I was late on that, I'll admit that fault. Had you taken the time to talk with me, there would have only been a quick discussion regarding lack of interaction with the cadet.

Your attitude is why you were banned. Your decision to take it into aooc, and looc, and the way you spoke to be in bwoinks. You failed to answer any of the questions I asked and instead allowed yourself to devovle to insults instead of explanations.

[Asura]

accidentally double posted, see below

Edited December 14, 2019 by Asura

[Asura]

4 minutes ago, ShesTrying said:

I'm not going to toss insults back and forth, so I'll keep this brief.

Please show me where I have insulted you? Analyze the way you are speaking to me, and then the way I am speaking to you. Clearly you are the one with an attitude, and I am only trying to state the facts? 

[beelzewax]

9 hours ago, Asura said:

What manner of cadet doesn't address someone who enters security, especially under the circumstances?

Hi, I was the cadet. I was watching the cameras and didn't see the engineer enter the lobby. I closed the camera menu just as the welderbomb went off and didn't have time to react. : >

[Asura]

Okay, well sorry about that, then. 

[Cnaym]

Helloa~ I'll be taking this. Give me a day or two to do the log dive.

Couple of points first though:

On 14/12/2019 at 22:19, Asura said:

I thought the guy was SSD and neglected to cryo, which I personally have gotten warned for several times, so I assumed he was at fault in that regard.

The rules are pretty clear on this. Don't mess with SSD folks.

 

On 14/12/2019 at 22:19, Asura said:

Meanwhile you claim we did nothing to escalate the round, which was another reason I got upset since I felt like we were all working coherently and cohesively as an antag team in order to do precisely that.

From what I read so far, you did some excellent team work with the antags, which is a good thing to do. Although escalation requires two sides usually. A good example would be a merc rush. You can blow up the station within minutes if your sole goal is to nuke the place. It would take a good amount of teamwork and make for a fun round for at least four people. Still be a gank on the entire station though, because they did not get any interaction prior to their deaths ^^ I hope you see where this is going. Saying hello to the cadet and telling him to run would probably have made his round a lot more fun ?

I will post more once I done the log dive

[Asura]

14 hours ago, Cnaym said:

I hope you see where this is going. Saying hello to the cadet and telling him to run would probably have made his round a lot more fun ?

yeah, I guess that would have been the better move

 

However regardless of my fault in the situation which I am ready to admit, I still feel this scenario was handled very poorly by the staff member in question. That's the purpose of this complaint, especially since my ban has already expired.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Asura

[Cnaym]

Okay this took a while since the round ID was the wrong one ^^ Let's take a look at how this was handled.

You walked into security, bombed the place, got winded. ShesTrying then tried to explain to you that bombing someone who is SSD or AFK or had no interaction with you is poor escalation. So far no problem there.

Ticket goes back and forth a little, which should have been stopped sooner since it's basicly a waste of time. Answering the questions politely usually helps us and you get the ticket over with quicker. You get unwinded and walk back to security, get arrested and start using LooC to tell them that they cannot arrest you, which is just wrong.

ShesTrying then tells you to use the ahelp function if you have any issues with the arrest and keep it out of LooC. You then proceed to blame her for confusing your entire round, and that it's not your fault for not knowing that security will arrest you if you stroll in there. Keep in mind that this is after you bombed their lobby and the cadet clearly saw you.

You then proceed to show a hostile attitude toward the staff member, asking if she enjoys picking on players or if she ever admits that she's wrong. You get informed that the warning for the welderbomb (which you could have just contested in a staff complaint, or ask the staff member in question for another member to handle your ticket) will escalate to a temporary ban if you continue with this behavior, to which you tell her that she botched your round and cannot ban you for feeling that your attitude is against the rules, after which the one day ban got applied.

The ban reason itself clearly said that you where not banned for the welder bomb, but for your attitude in LooC, AooC and the ticket itself, with which I have to agree.

The two rules in question here being:

Quote

"Don't be a dick"

"If you are contacted by an admin, you are expected to reply, and communicate clearly and in good will. Failure to reply or disrespect towards admins may be grounds for a ban. We do our best to be polite and courteous with you, and thus expect you to do the same with us."

"All staff ingame decisions are final. OOC and adminhelp aren't the place to argue about our staff's decisions. If you'd like to contest a punishment, rule, or actions from a staffmember, start a discussion thread in the appropriate subsection of our forums, either Unban Requests, Staff Complaints, or General Discussion (for discussing specific rules)."

That being said, I will talk to ShesTrying about asking the person involved in her ticket if they would like another staff member to handle it, if the hostility is clearly shown towards her and another staff member is online and can take over. This might be a good step to get another look on the situation and give the player another chance of explaining their side (i.e. keep an eye out for someone who feels handled wrong, hand over the ticket to another staff member to ensure that the player does not feel like it's a personal issue.)

 

I consider this complaint handled and will close it within 24 hours.