TCFL ranking system

[AmoryBlaine]

It makes zero sense that all of the basic standard riflemen in the TCFL are 'Volunteers', and all the 'Legionnaires' are actually specifically trained to be Medics and Combat Engineers. What would make more sense, is if 'Volunteers' weren't a rank. Everyone in the TCFL is there voluntarily. Everyone there is a Legionnaire. It'd be weird if I was a trained Doctor, but I was only allowed to be a rifleman because I wasn't working for the TCFL full time.

-Standard Legionnaires do not have specialized training, they're all just riflemen. Ranked as Legionarius.

-Specialist Legionnaires are- obviously- Specialized (Clinicus Legionarius, and Architecti Legionarius.)

- Sentinels are ranked as Stationarius. They guard TCFL ships.

-The Prefect is re-ranked to Decanus, as he is a squad leader. Why would the Prefect- the dude running the operation- be going down with a small squad. He's got better things to do than get shot.

- The pilot is ranked as Aquilifer. Because he's the bearer of the Eagle- IE, the shuttle. He's ranked beside the Decanus, but he doesn't really have any room to operate that authority outside of his shuttle.

- The Prefect is still a rank, but it is specifically used to refer to the Captain of each TCFL ship.

- The Legate is whoever is running the TCFL as a whole.

 

Thoughts?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The ranks are so to remain simple and immediately easy to grasp. Any new player whos mever even heard of aurora before should immediately be able to grasp the rankings.

It also reinforces psychologically the themes of the role. The tcfl is a plucky militia force. They are weekend warriors. Legionnaires are where you get specialized.

I had the rankings set up for these reasons and more.

[AmoryBlaine]

2 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

The ranks are so to remain simple and immediately easy to grasp. Any new player whos mever even heard of aurora before should immediately be able to grasp the rankings.

It also reinforces psychologically the themes of the role. The tcfl is a plucky militia force. They are weekend warriors. Legionnaires are where you get specialized.

I had the rankings set up for these reasons and more.

But you can do that without having every standard guy be a 'volunteer'. They're still Legionnaires. "S/Lgn." for Specialists, and "Lgn." for standards. Most of this information would be placed on the wiki, and in descriptions. I don't expect the in-game titles to be like Clinicus Legionarius Farley or something of that effect. It's world building.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Its a sacrifice of accessibility in a very important role where any rando needs to immediately understand as much as possile about their role in as short a time as possible. These added nuances are basically hostile game design. I have no idea what those titles mean and if i have to specifically look them up then its a failure on the dev end.

The same philosophy is applied to how i have handled all jobs ive sunk my claws into. Kataphracts have two ranks (saa and zosaa) but The immediately refers to them as knight and squire so that any rando immediately 'gets it'.

We all know (compensating for americentrism) what a weekend warrior is and the themes around it.

This mouthfeel is replicated.

Volunteers are a jack of all and master of none.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[AmoryBlaine]

Just now, Marlon Phoenix said:

Its a sacrifice of accessibility in a very important role where any rando needs to immediately understand as much as possile about their role in as short a time as possible. These added nuances are basically hostile game design. I have no idea what those titles mean and if i have to specifically look them up then its a failure on the dev end.

The same philosophy is applied to how i have handled all jobs ive sunk my claws into. Kataphracts have two ranks (saa and zosaa) but The immediately refers to them as knight and squire so that any rando immediately 'gets it'.

We all know (compensating for americentrism) what a weekend warrior is and the themes around it.

This mouthfeel is replicated.

Volunteers are a jack of all and master of none.

I don't understand what you're talking about, actually. How is by having one rank as "Volunteer" and the other ranks that effectively do the same thing, but also able to medical or engineering work, suggesting the themes of "weekend warrior"ness. All it does is make it more obvious that this isn't about volunteers, otherwise you'd not be relegating doctors, EMTs, robotics engineers and welders to "standard rifleman" while employing full-time your own combat engineers and medics.

[AmoryBlaine]

The way you've- currently- set up the ranking, suggests that only the very base of this organization has anything to do with volunteering, with all other ranks as professional, and full-time.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

 

3 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said:

The way you've- currently- set up the ranking, suggests that only the very base of this organization has anything to do with volunteering, with all other ranks as professional, and full-time.

Yes.

[AmoryBlaine]

Just now, Marlon Phoenix said:

 

Yes.

 

Quote

It also reinforces psychologically the themes of the role. The tcfl is a plucky militia force. They are weekend warriors. Legionnaires are where you get specialized.

So your goal wasn't to actually have a plucky militia force. It was to pretend it's that.

[Aticius]

For what it's worth; the TCFL has never felt plucky, or even very militia to someone relatively new. They've come off firmly as "Underequipped, but professional." These name changes are reasonable; but the whole roman aesthetic gives me a bad feel.

 

New names entirely and probably lore tweaks are called for if we really want them to be plucky yeehawers

[AmoryBlaine]

It's not really a theme for the role, if only one rank is "plucky militia force", and everyone else is an actual soldier. Especially, within the context of the "plucky militia force" being under direct control of said soldiers down to the level of squad makeup.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

5 minutes ago, Aticius said:

For what it's worth; the TCFL has never felt plucky, or even very militia to someone relatively new. They've come off firmly as "Underequipped, but professional." These name changes are reasonable; but the whole roman aesthetic gives me a bad feel.

Thats also fine; re the theming.

 

6 minutes ago, Aticius said:

New names entirely and probably lore tweaks are called for if we really want them to be plucky yeehawers

Can you cite examples of how the current rankings have caused persistent confusion on server?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

11 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said:

So your goal wasn't to actually have a plucky militia force. It was to pretend it's that.

No.

Volunteers are the bulk of the force. You can work in it part time and learn basic skills. You can be a volunteer and a chef.

A legionnaire is a specialized role. You are applying a specialized career to it. You do it full time. Or you have full time style knowledge. 

This can be made more explicit to clear up the confusion this is creating on your end.  It is clearly an area we can better communicate on the wiki.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Aticius]

2 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

 

Can you cite examples of how the current rankings have caused persistent confusion on server?

I can't speak for anyone but myself here; but at first, Legionnaires sounded like "Okay, these are the boots, Volunteers are like rookies." I still don't know where the pilot sits in the chain, and I don't know what's above Prefect. It feels like a smattering, and in a bad way, rather than something vaguely organized.

 

If I had to suggest something, Legionnare becoming Specialist to more directly tell people that, yeah, these are people specifically trained to do a specific thing, rather than the bulk of the force.

 

Maybe also adjust the amount of roles available for the ERT? I don't know how it looks, to be honest.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Its also consistent with the erts boots on the ground. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Our shuttles are not complicated enough to justify a specialized pilot role in game.

[AmoryBlaine]

Just now, Marlon Phoenix said:

No.

Volunteers are the bulk of the force. You can work in it part time and learn basic skills. You can be a volunteer and a chef.

A legionnaire is a specialized role. You are applying a specialized career to it. You do it full time.

This can be made more explicit to clear up the confusion this is creating on your end.  It is clearly an area we can better communicate on the wiki.

It does not matter if they're the actual bulk of the force, because in the game- for the randos you keep referring to- they see that the specialists in their squad aren't volunteers, and they see that the squad leader isn't a volunteer. Specifically by your design, you've created it so that they can't be inferred as a plucky force, unless you make the assumption that all the riflemen are volunteers- thus making up the backbone- and all the specialists are full time, which then makes you think "Well, if I'm a professional EMT, why would I- as a volunteer- be stuck as a rifleman?" And then, we get back to what you said. If you have any more training than combat, you're professionally, full-time employed by TC Gov.

So overall, this isn't a plucky militia force. It's just the guys who only get combat training, are doing this part-time, and everyone else is a professional soldier.

[AmoryBlaine]

Just now, Marlon Phoenix said:

Our shuttles are not complicated enough to justify a specialized pilot role in game.

We've had a specialized pilot role since Ferner's update.

1 minute ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Its also consistent with the erts boots on the ground.

So is my suggestion of

Lgn. -> S/Lgn -> L/Lgn. -> Pfct.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Being full time isnt incompatible with being plucky. They were mentioned as professional but underequipped. This is also plucky.

You have not provided justification for the need a more complex hierarchy.  However you have arguably created a small need to better clatify these roles with a few sentences on their page.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

What i will say is volunteers need to have a line describing how they typically work part time and being a volunteer gives you access to scholarships and makes you an attractive hire.

It also naturally leads into...

Legionnaires are already engineers or doctors who signed up to work in a more full time capacity (part time is fine) or they are specifically being trained as a volunteer to become a legionnare using those scholarships i mentioned.

More specialized ranking systems obfuscating the current ranks, which are identical in all non-antag response teams, is not ideal at all.

[AmoryBlaine]

2 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Being full time isnt incompatible with being plucky. They were mentioned as professional but underequipped. This is also plucky.

You have not provided justification for the need a more complex hierarchy.  However you have arguably created a small need to better clatify these roles with a few sentences on their page.

You've dropped the rest of your phrase. "Plucky Militia force." It's hardly a militia as it is now, as you've made it even more clear here, that everyone but the riflemen are full-time professional soldiers. If you're REALLY trying to drive home that they're plucky maybe don't have Roman rankings in the first place, given that doesn't really jive with plucky.

2 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

What i will say is volunteers need to have a line describing how they typically work part time and being a volunteer gives you access to scholarships and makes you an attractive hire.

It also naturally leads into...

So it's not even plucky. The TCFL manipulates the poor- by incentivizing them with easier access to higher education- and the foreign- by incentivizing them with citizenship. The people joining, are not doing so because they want to defend Biesel from threats, but because it may be the only way for them to move up in life. How is this a plucky militia force?

[AmoryBlaine]

The point with my rank changes- initially- was to better show that everyone in the legion, is a legionnaire- that they're all volunteers, wanting to defend TC and to further solidify the solidarity among its members as a unit, despite it's voluntary, come-and-go, nature. The secondary objective was to better expand on the size of the TCFL by dishing out more ranks related to the Roman legion and re-ranking the squad leader and legate to be higher up in the chain to better communicate the size of the legion.

[AmoryBlaine]

I also wanted to better differentiate from the standard formula- as dictated by the NT-ERT- by playing into the addition of the pilot and sentinel forces, and breaking up the fluid authority from the squad leader over everyone who spawns in-game. By splitting the authority between two leaders- the pilot- Aquilifer- and the squad leader- Decanus- you get more ideas and situations playing out. Sentinels already act as an inner police force. I just gave them a thematic name.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Just now, AmoryBlaine said:

I also wanted to better differentiate from the standard formula- as dictated by the NT-ERT- by playing into the addition of the pilot and sentinel forces, and breaking up the fluid authority from the squad leader over everyone who spawns in-game. By splitting the authority between two leaders- the pilot- Aquilifer- and the squad leader- Decanus- you get more ideas and situations playing out. Sentinels already act as an inner police force. I just gave them a thematic name.

This might as well be an entirely new response force. You should create this under someone like eridani.

[AmoryBlaine]

1 minute ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

This might as well be an entirely new response force. You should create this under someone like eridani.

This is a thread about improving the very bare-bones Tau Ceti Foreign Legion. The Tau Ceti Foreign Legion, should be well in-depth given it's literally the unofficial official military for Tau Ceti- where most of our characters are from, or at least live. Currently, of all the ERTs, the TCFL is the most standout. It has a ship of its own with a flushed out hanger, a customized transport shuttle. The TCFL has a lot of implied character, that is not reflected in the amount of actual information we have on them, and the more information you give me here, seems to directly contradict the supposed themes you were trying to get across when you made it so bare-bones.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Please respond to my suggested path of clarification and argue why it is not the right path to take and why additional ranking will provide superior roleplay and themeing.