Staff Complaint - Aboshedab

[Kaed]

BYOND Key: Kaedwuff

Staff BYOND Key: Aboshedab

Game ID: N/A

Reason for complaint: Whitelist strip and denial of appeal for forum ban on bad faith grounds.

Evidence/logs/etc:

Additional remarks:

The appeal was denied on the grounds that I have not sufficiently interacted with the community on-server. The specific action that caused my ban was not behavior on the server itself, but behavior on the forums, and my lack of playing on the server for the last 4 months was due entirely to not being able to enjoy interacting with the community anymore when I am unable to use the forums.  Essentially, I am being asked to perform self-punishment to prove my penance before I can come back.

Additionally, I would also like to contest the original ruling that was made by Aboshedab 4 months ago. Verbatim:

Quote

 

Due to extensive improper behavior on the forums, two extra punishments are being added on top of the warning points.

1- I'm indefinitely barring you from posting on the forums. You can contact another staff member over this. 

2- Your command whitelist is being revoked as you are displaying improper conduct that we simply do not accept of a person holding that whitelist.

 

I feel that this ruling was excessive punitive measures against me.  I was given a warning for my forum behavior (reasonable), an additional permanent forum ban (also reasonable), but also had my command whitelist stripped as an additional punitive measure on the vague grounds that my 'improper conduct is not acceptable for people holding a command whitelist'. My conduct as a command member on server is completely separate from the forums, and using rudeness on the forums to stretch out an additional extra insufficiently related punishment when I'm already receiving a permanent ban is excessive and - I feel - borders on malicious.  The whitelist strip was not grounded in any actual use of that whitelist in the server, any more than my being rude in the forums means I can't be trusted to play an unathi responsibly anymore.

As I mentioned in the original appeal I am not against a probationary period of forum use where I can prove that I behave myself, only allowed to post in relation to my activities outside the forums, such as feedback for my own PRs or forums that are related to server activity (Complaints/IRs/Whitelists), i.e. the bare minimum for participation in the github/server, but requiring that I make myself suffer to prove that I can behave myself is, in my opinion, unreasonable.  Especially after leaving the ban uncontested for 4 months to cool things off.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Kaed

[Garnascus]

Will get this within a day or two. My first post will be just establishing what the issue is and maybe what my gut feeling is. Then we can go from there. 

[Garnascus]

On 06/05/2020 at 11:53, Kaed said:

The specific action that caused my ban was not behavior on the server itself, but behavior on the forums, and my lack of playing on the server for the last 4 months was due entirely to not being able to enjoy interacting with the community anymore when I am unable to use the forums.

Well, alright but thats kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy on your part. We cannot really unban someone who has had a lot of chances without at least some idea that they are improving. Playing on the server is usually how its done. I also think one of your comments in the original appeal encapsulates the issue here.

Quote

My behavior on the server remains for the large part entirely separate from my behavior on the forums.  I never received a ban on the server itself, just from communicating on the forums

We do not really consider the two separate. It is your behavior in the aurora community as a whole, Going "well its just on the forums" is not an acceptable defense. 

On 06/05/2020 at 11:53, Kaed said:

I feel that this ruling was excessive punitive measures against me.  I was given a warning for my forum behavior (reasonable), an additional permanent forum ban (also reasonable), but also had my command whitelist stripped

Our policy on whitelist removal does state that too many administrative actions can get it removed. You acknowledge that a permanent ban from the forums on your part was reasonable thus a whitelist strip does logically follow here. 

On 06/05/2020 at 11:53, Kaed said:

My conduct as a command member on server is completely separate from the forums, and using rudeness on the forums to stretch out an additional extra insufficiently related punishment when I'm already receiving a permanent ban is excessive and - I feel - borders on malicious. 

I know i have already covered this but again, we do not consider it separate and it is clearly stated so. The forums are one medium you can receive too many administrative actions. I believe a reasonable definition of "too many" would include a permanent forum ban. Thus your conduct was not acceptable for a whitelisted person. 

On 06/05/2020 at 11:53, Kaed said:

the bare minimum for participation in the github/server, but requiring that I make myself suffer to prove that I can behave myself is, in my opinion, unreasonable.

Even if i can empathize that you do not enjoy playing while you are banned it does not really change how our policies work. We pretty much always take play-time into account if someone is for example appealing an antag ban. If they have not played since the antag ban was placed its almost certain to be denied outright. The forums are part of our community and it is entirely possible to be server banned for forum conduct. Admittedly it is extremely rare for that to happen but i have personally done it. 

So, the TLDR here is i cannot really find much to agree with you here man. 

[Garnascus]

Going to lock and archive this and consider it resolved.