Staff Complaint - youjustgotowened

[Watchboi]

Byond key: Kostyan
Staff Byond key: youjustgotowened
Game ID: b70-ccSI
Reason for complaint: Disagreement with judgement.
Evidence/logs/etc: 
Additional Remarks: During the vampire round, after conversion my character killed the master vampire, which then was followed up by a bwoink from youjustgotowened. The reason for killing another vampire in that situation was valid, considering it is stated that a new-convet would be in frenzy and not loyal to the vampire that got them turned in the wiki page. The admin in question stated that doing that is illogical, which might be true, but it was not rule-breaking. Then they said that It was a problem because I was not talking, I think it's wrong because: A - the vampire who turned me was basically running away, B - because a frenzied new-turned can only scream incoherently, C - Because revenge for such transformation is a valid motivator. The last thing I find wrong with it is that the admin in question ressurected the vampire that my character has killed, which broke the immersion of everyone who witnessed that, and made the round into a hot mess that had to be solved with an ERT, which ruined the experience of everyone invloved save for the vampire.

Sidenote: I apologize for ick ock and related hateful messages that are linked to the case, I was angry and irrational. I won't do a ban appeal because I really need a few days off so I'm not wound up. I never really write complaints because I can logically understand how someone might have a problem with what I did, even if I don't agree with it, but this time it wasn't the case and it made me boil over, which caused the ooc idiocy. The apology itself is directed towards youjustgotowened and matt. 

Side-sidenote: First time writing something like this so sorry if it might not be in the correct form.

[Pratepresidenten]

Me and @BoryaTheSlayer will be handling this.

[Owen]

Alright, well, since this was a warning that I issued, I'll provide my point of view on it all. Leading up to me PMing you, I received an ahelp from a player stating that they were killed by your character immediately after being embraced and with no interaction at all besides being beat down and left for dead. While yes, you are in a state of a blood frenzy at the time of you being embraced, you are still considered an antagonist and should not just be killing people for the sake of killing them. You do not need to be bound or loyal to the vampire who embraced you, and at the time of my PMing you, there were no attempts to actually consume blood from this player as well--I essentially considered this to be a case of ganking.

I still do not feel that you were justified in your actions during this incident, and to quote the 'Frenzy' section of the Vampire page on the wiki, "You are reverted to a snarling creature who only wants to consume blood until you are able to break out of it, and regain control. This is done by draining blood." 

From what I was able to gather, you did not attempt to do so, and it only appeared as though you killed this character. 

Now, to address your specific points:

2 hours ago, Watchboi said:

A - the vampire who turned me was basically running away

If they were running away, then I find it to be even less justified to go hunt and punch them down and kill them. Removing a player from the round, while necessary at times depending on the situation, is also something that should not be taken lightly. 

2 hours ago, Watchboi said:

B - because a frenzied new-turned can only scream incoherently

I grant you that on this point, it does make more sense. Though I still find issue in you killing the other player in this situation. 

2 hours ago, Watchboi said:

C - Because revenge for such transformation is a valid motivator.

As was stated earlier, your character would really only be focused on just getting blood as soon as they possibly could at that point in time. I don't really think there would be a capacity to target someone for revenge for transforming you. Once dropping out of the blood frenzy, I can see how you can justify it then. 

2 hours ago, Watchboi said:

The last thing I find wrong with it is that the admin in question ressurected the vampire that my character has killed, which broke the immersion of everyone who witnessed that, and made the round into a hot mess that had to be solved with an ERT, which ruined the experience of everyone invloved save for the vampire.

The decision to revive the player who had been killed was done through an interaction between an admin and the player, I was not a part of the conversation, and simply assume that it was standard procedure on the side of the admins. I cannot recall which admin it was specifically that handled that, but they are welcome to speak on it further. 

2 hours ago, Watchboi said:

Sidenote: I apologize for ick ock and related hateful messages that are linked to the case, I was angry and irrational. I won't do a ban appeal because I really need a few days off so I'm not wound up. I never really write complaints because I can logically understand how someone might have a problem with what I did, even if I don't agree with it, but this time it wasn't the case and it made me boil over, which caused the ooc idiocy. The apology itself is directed towards youjustgotowened and matt. 

I can understand that even though we are all aware that it is a game, our emotions can still get the best of us. I was not present for your actions leading up to your ban, and am only learning that it was applied through this complaint. 

In the end, I do believe that in this case, your actions still did warrant the warning that was applied to you. I will of course, defer that confirmation to the admin that reviews this complaint, but in my interpretation of the situation, it was an unnecessary kill, and it only achieved to stifle further interaction throughout the round. Killing as an antagonist is not inherently wrong, obviously, but in this case I find that the manner that it was performed to be problematic. From what I have gathered the player who embraced you attempted to flee and you hunted them down and beat them to death (drinking from them at some point after our interaction already began). We do hold our antagonists to a standard of attempting to craft a larger story throughout the round, and immediately turning and killing the one who embraced you, in my opinion, is poor play OOC. 

[Watchboi]

1. Not drinking blood in the first minutes was a dumb move on my part, but my logic at the time was to create some havoc instead of spending the time drinking, so I agree on that part.
2. Main strife is with ressurection, since when a person converts someone they should logically know that they might attack and possibly kill them, ressurecting them just seems like a free pass for no real reason.
3. I still think I was justified in killing them, even if my actions afterwards might've not fully tied in. If people play antag they should expect death at some point, either theirs or their victums for the purpose of the story, you saying "attempting to craft a larger story throughout the round" excludes death, necessary or otherwise?

[Pratepresidenten]

Helo fren. We return with a veridct.

Hokay, so, there is a little right and wrong on both ends here.

Firstly, there is no issue whatsoever in killing the vampire that converts you. If they choose to stick around to witness the monstrous, blood-crazed beast they've created, by all means, take that risk. However, the only real acceptable kill of their converter here, is pretty much to drain them dry if you should so feel like it,

Your only priority as a new convert is to feed on whoever is close, not use your brute force just to kill someone or chase after a spesific target if there are others around.

Secondly, it is entirely up to the convertee if they want to roleplay or just go straight for the throat of the vampire that turned them. The roleplay and escalation was there for the conversion, thats it. Antag rules apply should you bump into uninvolved crew if your converter bails.

Lastly, the rejuvenation of the killed vampire. Im a little on the fence for this one personally, but i have faith in the admin's decision to do what they deemed best in the situation. You did infact break character by engaging and bludgeoning the other to death either due to misunderstanding how blood frenzy worked or be it something else.

 

That being said, the warning stays, but will be adjusted to reflect the actual issue of the situation.

 

Unless there are other concerns, this will be considered resolved.