Eple Posted December 9, 2020 Posted December 9, 2020 Banned by host: Reason: You or another you of this computer or connection (eple) is banned from playing here. The ban reson is: Cross department knowledge/powergaming, no reson to check for ID wires as cargo tech. ---- As far as iv been told or as far as i remember (iv had alot of talks), ShesTrying ones caught me setting up engine (sm) as apprentice engineer, where i didnt have engine skillset, and i was told to not do it or adjust my skills accordingly, wich i promptly did. (i do see other aprentices do it, especially rounds that are as skeleton crew as that round). Also same admin belive i got a warning from a round where i played Gina as Assistant as i mix it up as Gina really isnt too big fan of working in uniform, anyway i got a warning for setting up solars upon request by skeleton crew of that round (Part time jobs i know alot of peoples characters have, and some that plays it visitors but has same skills). Iv had talks with Matt also who has the unfortunate opertunity to hear me vent sometimes on discord (as im terrible at useing discord) who iv talked and heard him talk about stuff like no cross skills even if its jokeingly about if he sees a csi\warden = ban i think it was :), also has one copy pasta line "scientist and roboticists are in the same department with similiar degrees but you cant be both", i forgot if that was adressed to me as we have had alot of talks and i occationally write stuff down so i wont go out of bounds of my character (as i try to improve byond lrp\mrp), and again i got understanding again that haveing skills beside robotics as a example above is generally a no go, especially since most of my characters as somewhat young 17-19 range ( i default alot to beeing an assistant, tho iv avoided it alot lately ) ect, god bless if i dont have to dig up all the conversations. ---- Anyway, current day, current time, current character Ayla Leonberger Work as a Cargo technician, in general pretty chill rounds, most people who know her probebly knows her as anti-sosial, or in general avoid crows, doesnt attend partys ect NanoTrasen Employment History: - Assistant electrician on a small exploration ship - Intern assembler in a printer assembly plant on Europan Formal Education History: - General Space School of Biesel - Sol Alliance Astral Private School (SAAPS) - Biesel Central Private Institute for Electrical Engineering Trained in the following: - Construction (C) - Complex Devices (C) - Electrical Engineering (A+) Diplomas and Certificates - Certified for Eva - Certified to setup and maintain Solar panels - Certified in NT Office (software) Hobbies: - Collecting Artifacts - Tinkering with Computers and Electronics - Gardening Other information: She is well organized and may also be suited for paperwork\desk job. Her qualifications are in electrical engineering, possibly a specialist if she continues to improve. She has a introverted, anti-sosial personality and enochlophobia. ---- Exploit info tells in more details that shes a smuggler (wich some antags took advantage off the other day), also stats shes a expert in electronic locks and can be hired to steal. ---- Unlike Gina, iv actually managed to play Ayla Leonberger in quite high rp style(or at very least this is so far my bestest), and shes gotten in alot of nice situations and lots of fun, has good friends in cargo, and in general play with her as iv layed out, i put alot of restrictions on myself of things i avoid, things i must do, and in general dont overdo like i did with gina where every round could become identical (especially with skeleton crews), i also space her out by playing Fahna Lu assistant scientist, and Rin Kawakaze (cadet) in general following orders and interacting with those i can. ---- But today everything changed, when the fire nation attacked, iv played a few rounds today, noteably before the ban round, there was a cult round where me and Buck worked, and i was sorting cargo and sending out bountys when i noticed buck had gone, so i went to look around to find that drunkard and found him some time later inside church with the cult, since my character doesnt care too much about religion, i just went back to work, untill Buck showed up and started converting me with his "charms", so i joined.. but again Many people and my character doesnt play well with that so i slipped out in the chaos and did some delving in maint (id wire) in case of fights, as there was quite a few people inside and outside of church (much to my suprize as a player), bit later i get called back to start summoning, wich they had attemted earlyer but not enough people, think they got called out for it too, anyway it gets summoned and things goes chaos like planned... Boink why did i summon nasir, told the admin who i forgot name of that i was barely there and that it be better to ask Buck.. that was one round, summoning quite early. Next round the round i was banned in, again i do the usual routine, i went to warehouse to start sorting, bit later Sam showed up (who me and Buck, occationally Alex) work with alot. She started sorting, so i went to take care of the bountys, most of the work goes by pretty fast, so copy bountys (wich most people will be familiar that i carefully craft a custom bounty sheet, that changes as i get better at formulas), spent some time on it then went out only to relize Sam had allready done it, when i got back Warehouse was sorted, we also had a quartermaster this round and he had taken care of all the orders.... so i decided to learn the id wire... went to a private restroom upstairs, went trough a couple of wires (dont worry i used protection as i was boinked ones for not doing it with protection long ago, forgot who that admin was (iv allways been carefull since then, i dont remember what character that was) ANYWAY, find the wire, i decide i wana try to smuggle out booze, i check pda on how tight security is and try to remember high activity areas, since i cannot break into bar as thats tresspassing. i decide to try to go for the old bar north east of security, since there was no diplomatic people, i start walking towards the office where i get Boinked, asking why i was hacking a door(the bathroom one), i was confused, as iv been away for a few months and just started playing again since last week, think little off it and continue on my way as the admin seemed not to talk for a bit, i was also confused if he forgot the admin chat as it was left on for quite a bit (asked about it too). I go trough my business and get the vending machine to drag it back to cargo, theres fighting in hallways below security, so i quickly take down the emergency doors and hide til i decide to move back and go hack maint door above medical so one can go the route down and around til cryo. I mean i dont wana be stuck towards diplomatic office if the fighting goes that way, i undid the hacking of the maint door in diplomatic (as i dont like to leave stuff open), but i did not do it for the doors when i ran away from the fight down and around to cryo. Admin talks again, but this time telling me hes gona apply a ban, i question what rule iv broken to try to learn but just getting vauge answers, eventually powergameing gets brought up, but that itself is extremely vauge in this situation, i argue my case as iv been over cases that in general has to do with hacking (Criminal), like iv stated, Gina was doing it too much, so i did get boinked for it there, but that was like me doing it 24\7 at every opertunity just to go around maint and pick up anything not nailed to the floor (or just getting the rats and collecting them in comissionary ), anyway after some argueing where i feelt like i was getting nowhere, just before i got banned admin in last message: [Trial Moderator PM] Dantzy: Well, yeah. I'm going to issue a day ban for this because you've been told not to do stuff outside of your department and now your checking the ID wires as a cargo tech. Now im even more more puzzled than before. The only way i can read it is: Do not do stuff outside department, following this rule after the ban lifts tomorrow is gona be nigh impossible, most Cargo techs occationally plant stuff to complete bountys (all from space drugs to fruits and whatever), and alot of cargo techs go to maint to get like oil and water tanks, usually the one below quartermasters seems to be taken (iv looked inside due to footprints leading out hah..), while i do have gardening listed as a hobby, were talking so basic as to grow flowers but not on station. I do sometimes pick up broom\bucket or soap in warehouse to clean, tho i don't have cleaning skill or and listed anywhere as things i would do. As Gina its sometimes seems expected out of me as theres been rounds where captain\head of departments(if only i remember name) call out on me to do said work, in general i don't go to hop for access but instead interact with those that work there where i talk with them (to try to improve her standing) and clean with them in the room's ect. Anyway, as quartermaster have learned, i play out that i dont know computers well, and we struggeled with payments and such.. fun round ... My point beeing, all of these are violations outside of scope of cargo department, and in a perfect world ALL of these would stricty according to what he told me, be played by Janitor, Gardener, Chemist and so on im now definitively violating the janitor(exept when there is one) one in this case by useing soap\bucket water compared to onec in a while hacking a door. I imagine alot of new players are inviolation of messing with the chemmaster in public garden, wich one of the admins told me was chemist or chemist skills when i used it on a character i dont play anymore, i like most player have used it with little tought and just seperated out the components we dont want and went on our way, i of corse avoid it like the plague now, i dont mess with chemicals in general, outside of buck and his gardener friends (and Astra) that sometimes supplies us. point beeing, im suprized that machine is still there and not replaced with a bio machine to break down plants that seems to instead litter or be sent trough trash. Iv tried setting up chemist characters or medical chemist, but since the medical and chemical names are complicated, i just forget the names and is unable to mix any of it, chemmaster by subtracting stuff from plant juice is my limit and that only works because its litterally a press of a button. Belive i was boinked ones for useing a burn kit after i was burnt by oil spill combo, and again if ONLY i was good with names, tho i probebly have this one listed as its stuck with me somehow, without medical skill, kits are for minimum requirement amateur level of medicine, basically working in medical, i did also have medical as a cross skill on my cadet, but for obvious resons was removed (not gotten boinked for it while i had it), but anyway that was on Gina i used the burn kit and the case was that it also counted for drugs as that requires know how wich makes sence but hasnt been a problem for me since i cant remember their damn names... Anyway Ointment and Bandages and the Emergency injector ONLY, so its pretty crystal clear. tho alot of the emergency medical kits one finds about in emergency usually contains the kits, so i imagine this is another trapdor, and if i were to imagine roleplaying useing a kit, id imagine just useing the basic bandages and ointments.. anyway cursed to remember this instead of names. ---- My point is basically, my character is setup to be a engineer, she went to engineering school, her background revolves around electronics\gadgets, exploitable information is on point and i will act accordingly makeing traitors who check exploits actually gets rewarded, as when i used to play alot of traitor (gina) in traitor rounds, the most detailed person back then that played regulary was Dean, and he had so many issues with other things that i REALLY couldnt mess with him, not to mention all that cannon stuff with Taika (i lost track of it), most other people are blank slates, and i ran into alot of hero security offiers. Has one spesific round in mind where i was in deep, and was pushing a oil tank while holding a gun, no intent to fire as she has no gun skills and despite beeing traitor i stick to what my characters know, anyway i drag the tanker away and this cop comes at zooming speed, grabs the tank and runs towards security, i belive i was heading in the only direction without people, so since i have no cover i fire a couple of shots in general direction and runs at same time, tanker got hit and he blows up. Bit later iv managed to get up the staircase and is heading to hide in bathrooms, i get stopped by.. i think it was Breacher or Ronald Monday when he played comes to calm down the situation, he starts talking me out of it, i get unsure of corse and start backing towards the maint door before slipping it open, situation is sorta under controll as i dropped my screwdriver and is kind of stuck, a security officer somehow snipes me, i forget if it was trough the wall or from the Breacher or Ronald, but they werent the shooter, i think he got boinked for it, but thats the more extreme case. Point beeing Antags have it hard, iv sort of given up on antag (traitor spesifically) beside the hero cops, in general there is no reward or fun for anyone with sabotage, most places are off limits anyway like the whole top floor due to arrival, cryos, wich makes sence, and hostage situations are hard to controll outside of playing in a group, and stealing as i did with Gina just left a permanent record.. wich also was bit confuseing as i started out playing, where i asked if it was possible to delete those, and the admin at that time (again i dont remember names, it was prior to me trying to keep a record seeing all these vauge unknown rules that arnt listed), said admin told me how to do it, and since i had been boinked for general lrp i made sure if it was ok to do so. Some time later, get boinked asked by a different min why they were deleted explained and then got explained it wasnt allowed, Iv not deleted one charge since then, exept one special case where i wasnt involved but got tagged with one, wich i talked out with the captain of that round who agreed but couldnt delete charge, so i had a talk with another admint that day that allowed me to do so, i forgot what the charge was, but the other party i assume still have the charge on their character. ---- I feel like im haveing deep rules that are sort of hidden but in effect for everyone, and its just a ticking bomb for most people to when a admin catches them. I do belive iv adressed this issue before and asked for clearer rules as most of these things can easely be adressed in a clear fasion. Saying sombody is powergameing is so vauge as it adresses alot of things, yet me reading the rules so often and trying to follow them, and now beeing bared out of doing anything outside "workplace_here", so now the shift will generally be do job, and pray theres no skeleton crew or at least one other person in same department. ---- One other thing iv noted that is EXTREMELY difficult for me, is to focuse on one thing and get it written down without deviating and explaining everytihng. Another thing is that i wish Bans would have SPESIFIC things to adress, what spesific rule that was broken, avoid vaugeness at all cost, and be reasonable. Heres how situations could be sorted : you did X, according to this rule, you arnt allowed to do X, Do you have any objections. Then i could say, this is part of my character, and in cases where one has cross skills like a Officer with medical, a Botanist with Science, Bartender with a degree in engineering that can setup supermatter in case of skeleton crew (its happend), then admins could glance over the character, see if theres enough weight to it, maybe consult with a second admin.. (wich i really wish they did in general, i usually ask when i feel like iv been over something to ask one of the previus admins iv talked to regarding a issue that is close to the problem. Anyway the admin could then simply say, you have bit too unrealistic skillset for your education, hobbies or general interest, please fix it, either choose engineering or medical, virsa versa. (like iv understood so far, i pray and hope) As far as i know, i got one outststanding warning (beside todays ban) and thats the time i setup Sm as Gina who also should be more than capeable at this point haveing worked for a long time now in engineering, and i even set the supermatter up in just a few shots to be on the extremely safe side of the supermatter, i think i remember that round that the captain was involved, and said robotisist had asked the captain before to let me setup solars, but power was nearly out on station and asked me to setup sm instead and as far as i remember he was gona ask the captain again, since i tought very little off it i just setup it up in a safe configuration, i never got the rest of the story, i forgot if i was banned for that day. ---- ALSO normally i dont write staff complaints, i really do not like to write as they allways ends up walls of text... its now allmost 1 am... time passes quickly.
Eple Posted December 9, 2020 Author Posted December 9, 2020 goodamnit, i wrote the end like it sounds like iv setup the sm alone by myself, this is why its so problematic as i have to correct myself, iv had multiple CE's teach the character spesific .. err now im gona second doupt myself and have to read over it...
Eple Posted December 10, 2020 Author Posted December 10, 2020 Oh sorry, should i make a new post or will this be enough. BYOND Key: Eple Staff BYOND Key: Game ID: Reason for complaint: Banned unjustly Evidence/logs/etc: No reson to check for ID wires as cargo tech. Additional remarks: Character has background in engineering, character is a small time criminal
Alberyk Posted December 10, 2020 Posted December 10, 2020 The issue is simple: you went around finding out what wire did what at round start as a non engineering staff for no reason in character. And if you think you can pull: "my character is a part time criminal", for every time you need to find an excuse to get ready to hack some doors, it is not going to fly. You should not go around checking the airlocks' wires without a reason in character. That is why you got banned. It is powergaming, and it is in the rules.
Eple Posted December 10, 2020 Author Posted December 10, 2020 hmm seems like different admins have different opinions and this leads to confusion, its the reson why i included Gina as a example. ---- Hopefully i got this right: Maint can be considered completely off limits for anyone not a <engineer with a reson to go there, fix hullbreach ect> (exeption: radiation storm, or against ones own will (antag at gunpoint ect) Does that sum up that part correctly. Hacking doors is just the means to get there, so in my case it would be a non factor in the above statement as if maint is unaccessable, learning to hack doors kind of become moot, as one would never hack into any department... but just to be clear, and hopefully i got his right too just so were crystal : Hacking doors is completely off limits for anyone not a <engineer with a reson to do it, fix hacked doors by antags ect> (exeption: against ones own will (antag at gunpoint ect)) and just to include Vending machines (as i work in engineering i see them hack vendors and doors roundstart to map it out instead of doing like me and ask the chief engineer to check the blueprint, wich i guess would be the way to go about it, sorta like warden or hos authorizeing unlocked guns or something), so : Hacking Vending machines is completely off limits for anyone not a <engineer with a reson to do it, fix hacked vending machines by antags, or to fix them shooting cans ect> (exeption: against ones own will (antag at gunpoint ect)) ---- I guess like i just said, chief engineer does have blueprints so maybe they should be asking him when doing these things instead of just going trough wire by wire. (for extra challenge, remove insulated gloves completely) ---- If this is correct, then you wont see me hack a door again, unless of corse the obvious exeptions if those were on point aswell.
Eple Posted December 10, 2020 Author Posted December 10, 2020 As for the powergameing standpoint, that is still bit unclear to me as the term is broader than daylight as it doesnt seem to adress the booze i intended to smuggle as that was more towards just figureing out the id wire, so then i guess the last post kind of covers that with that authorization from ce is probebly something everyone should at least require, if ce isnt just telling it from blueprints, i mean i like rp'ing with the different ce's But just to be safe, ill quit criminal activity, seeing that its not possible anyway, hah
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