Tagada Posted June 12, 2022 Posted June 12, 2022 BYOND Key: Tagada Game ID: The round ongoing at 22:45PM CET, 12/06/2022 // The round preceding the round cio-dj8f Player Byond Key/Character name: Fehra Maskini and various members of security Staff involved: Arrow768 and MattAtlas both present during the round, commented on the incident. Reason for complaint: Recieveing the traitor role about 20 minutes into the round, I decided on the classic gimmick involving the theft and smuggling of weapons on board. I knew that there were other traitors on board via AOOC, so I wasn't worried about having to include the whole station. I robbed the crew armoury and the armoury both, taking care to leave at least one set of fingerprints on each site (metal rod in the crew armoury, glass shard in a pile of shards in the armoury. I destroyed the lockers via emitter, repackaged them in a standard closet and a crate, wrapped them in paper. Since security was on blue by then and patrolling, I decided to label both closet and crate as "Gear Samples, n#xxxxxx", meant for SCC Logistics as part of a quality control operation. I quickly forged a Do Not Tamper order, stamped it with the CE's stamp and delivered both officious-looking, labelled crates into the auxiliary hangar, taking care to pass by security twice, nod at patrols I met. (I did two full rounds of the tree in primary) I hung the Do Not Tamper order on the crate. I explained, several times, loudly, on general, that the nature of a Quality Inspection requires the crates to remain sealed until opened by inspection so as to avoid tampering. The HoS (Singh) on duty inspected the closet and crate and allowed them to remain there. Despite this, security remained stationed around my crates before being called away for another traitor. I originally wanted to bribe OE with some operations funding to take them off station and dump them somewhere, but they never arrived so I organised a tense, innunedo-filled meeting with the merchant and his assistant. We secured an agreement but buy the time we arrived, both crate and closet were gone. Security members either didn't know what happened with the them or didn't want to tell. I later learned that both closet and crate were taken to security, unwrapped - the locker and crate confirmed to be other than the gun closets - re-wrapped without being opened. The HoS went to cryogenics. I took specific care, through this incident, to be very, very loud on general and aggressive IC, so as to draw a little security attention to me and my seeming legal deal to ship the crates off station by contracting the merchant. At this point, the warden and remaining security members decided to ignore the stamped orders on the closets and open them anyway. I think Fehra Maskini did the opening, and thus that name is up there. They didn't tell my character that they've opened the crates, but didn't want to charge me either, instead interrogating me and keeping me there. As transfer came about, they let me go saying they had no time and that they were keeping the crates. - Security ignored a command stamped written order not to tamper with the closets, with no command present to authorise them - The HoS confirmed the closets to be not the ones security was looking for - The closets were again confirmed to be not suspicious on the sec comms. -Neither of the containers (standard metal closet and crate) are even similar to the container that security was looking for (two large gun lockers that I took from the crew armoury) -When I asked for any sort of paper trail to prove that security had confiscated items (without charge or reason given) I was laughed off and then neck-grabbed and thrown out of security by the ZI. Excalibur. I attempted to explain that since the parcels they've taken need a paper trail, but was ignored. I understand that security is a hard role, but similar incidents (where an antag gimmick is crossed off as a result of security just ignoring protocol or "following a hunch") have happened often enough recently for me to finally complain about one. The very nature of a paperwork-theft antagonist hinges on the idea that people will play their roles - and respect corporate procedure. I wasn't just collecting stuff all over: I included crew memebers, merchant, etc. I left clues and gave security ample chances and leads on which they could establish probable cause and open the crates - legitimately. Instead one of them said fuck it, they all agreed and broke protocol again. And again. Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? : Yes I did. Arrow instructed me to make a complaint if I wanted action, since the round was over. Approximate Date/Time: Round ongoing at 22:45PM CET, 12/06/2022
MattAtlas Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 Hello, I was Z.I. Excalibur. Let me give a rundown of the events. I latejoin at around 30 minutes in. The Commander informs us that two lockers were stolen from the crew armory. I went there to check and a wall was removed from the back, thus I postulated that the break-in was committed by an engineer. Keep this detail in mind. Yihwa joins and is told this information. Yihwa then says that she saw you, an engineer with a set of tools, drag around a wrapped-up locker. Eventually, we find the wrapped-up lockers in the Hangar. At this point, Yihwa, the AI shell and I hang around the closets for a while and discuss the fact that they're more than likely the stolen lockers. Around this time, another break-in was reported (this time through usage of C4, as far as we could tell) into the armory, where some armor was stolen. Volle starts murdering people and we leave the Hangar unsupervised. At some point between 5 and 6, an officer comes down and unwraps the crates. The situation at this point was that we knew that exactly two lockers were missing, we saw you drag them, and we also knew that these two mysterious wrapped up lockers (you could argue one was a wrapped up crate... but it doesn't really take much effort to empty a locker into a crate, so) existed in the Hangar, stamped by a head of staff that was never there. Note that we didn't exactly rip them open the instant we saw them either - we gave you a good 30-50 minutes after our first sighting of the lockers, to my knowledge. 14 hours ago, Tagada said: - Security ignored a command stamped written order not to tamper with the closets, with no command present to authorise them The head of security basically told us that we can act on our own right before he cryo'd. I do not find it valid for you to imply that Security cannot do anything about an extremely suspicious set of lockers if heads of staff aren't present, only because there's a vague SCC order put there (not even announced through official means like a CC announcement, might I add -- at least to my knowledge). It is a ridiculous assumption simply because we had good reason to suspect that some weird shit was going on. 14 hours ago, Tagada said: - The closets were again confirmed to be not suspicious on the sec comms. Not sure what exactly you mean here. Most if not all of us agreed that the closets were basically blatantly the stolen stuff. 14 hours ago, Tagada said: - The HoS confirmed the closets to be not the ones security was looking for I don't recall the head of security saying this either, or if so, I didn't see it. Regardless, most of us would've held that judgement to be wrong, as there's no real way he could've known without looking in or sending a fax asking about them (which was not done). 14 hours ago, Tagada said: -Neither of the containers (standard metal closet and crate) are even similar to the container that security was looking for (two large gun lockers that I took from the crew armoury) This is completely pedantic for you to say considering that due to sprite limitations a wrapped up gun locker looks the same as a wrapped up normal locker. This is grasping at straws. And even if that were not the case, how is it unreasonable exactly for us to assume that you emptied the gun locker into a different locker? 15 hours ago, Tagada said: -When I asked for any sort of paper trail to prove that security had confiscated items (without charge or reason given) I was laughed off and then neck-grabbed and thrown out of security by the ZI. Excalibur. I attempted to explain that since the parcels they've taken need a paper trail, but was ignored. The funny thing here is that I didn't even threaten to arrest you for what you did. It was basically completely obvious that you were the culprit here to anyone with a half functioning pair of brain cells, yet we gave you so much rope that I refused to even arrest you. The exchange went something like me asking you if you were aware of the contents of the lockers, you saying no, then me saying "Okay well then we're keeping them as evidence, please leave", after which you refused to leave after being told to three times, then of course I used force to neck grab you and throw you out because you were being absolutely obstinate. Again, I could've easily arrested you here for trespassing, but I chose not to. Nobody wanted to arrest you or even deal with you, honestly. 15 hours ago, Tagada said: The very nature of a paperwork-theft antagonist hinges on the idea that people will play their roles - and respect corporate procedure. I wasn't just collecting stuff all over: I included crew memebers, merchant, etc. I left clues and gave security ample chances and leads on which they could establish probable cause and open the crates - legitimately. So why the complaint then? We followed your paper trail and gave you just as much rope as we usually give antags - which is not a small amount. We established that the crates were extremely suspicious and needed opening, and after giving you the ample opportunity for like 30-40 minutes to do anything with them (you chose to instead do some random stuff in the other end of the ship, leaving the crates in the hangar for whatever reason -- and by the way, we left them unsupervised because we had to deal with a murder), you decided not to. So why is it an OOC problem that we act on the paper trail you left then? What was your ideal outcome here exactly? That we just ignored you the entire time because of a vague OOC protection given by a beyond-suspicious "do not tamper order"?
Tagada Posted June 13, 2022 Author Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, MattAtlas said: Note that we didn't exactly rip them open the instant we saw them either - we gave you a good 30-50 minutes after our first sighting of the lockers, to my knowledge. I think that it is in bad faith to imply that any antag was "given" 30 minutes of time by a 5-man security team as a result of some sort of team meta decision to go easy. As if giving antags time was part of security's OOC role - as if that time somehow benefited me, the antag. I don't believe that I was "given" anything and I certainly won't thank anyone for waiting before "ripping them apart". My issue is that you did rip them apart, not the time it took you. 5 hours ago, MattAtlas said: I do not find it valid for you to imply that Security cannot do anything about an extremely suspicious set of lockers if heads of staff aren't present, only because there's a vague SCC order put there I in no way implied that. There were plenty of things that security could have done to actually open that cargo with legitimate reasons. From simple asking the extremely helpful unlawed AI who helped me through the process and assisted in the wrapping, to tailing me, doing CSI (I left prints and fibers everywhere), sending a fax requesting help, interrogating the extremely suspicious merchant and assistant that I was trailing around with, in plain sight, investigating the CE's office, where the stamp was from down to simply interrogating my character, the suspected antag. - None of these things were done. I refuse to believe that you believe that "ripping them open" was literally the only option available to security department. You all had suspicion, but none of you had "good reason". That may be irksome but normally, being frustrated isn't an excuse to just say fuck it to your job's IC rules. It's motivation to investigate. 5 hours ago, MattAtlas said: Not sure what exactly you mean here. Most if not all of us agreed that the closets were basically blatantly the stolen stuff. I mean that after the HoS confirmed that the crates were not the type that originally contained the stolen weapons, they were looked at again (I forget the officer's name) who called out the same information for a second time on the security comms. 5 hours ago, MattAtlas said: I don't recall the head of security saying this either, or if so, I didn't see it. Regardless, most of us would've held that judgement to be wrong, as there's no real way he could've known without looking in or sending a fax asking about them (which was not done). You have access to the logs of the round in question, not I. Go look. There were at least five of you - and that was information on an ongoing investigation straight from the HoS. As far as I know, the HoS sent a fax, but it was a simple status report not a call for request, or even asking a confirmation of my "Gear Sample Crate" story. Security could have sent another one. They didn't. 5 hours ago, MattAtlas said: his is completely pedantic for you to say considering that due to sprite limitations a wrapped up gun locker looks the same as a wrapped up normal locker. This is grasping at straws. And even if that were not the case, how is it unreasonable exactly for us to assume that you emptied the gun locker into a different locker? It's not pedantic, not completely, not partially - the particular type of lockers that I used was a specific detail mentioned by the HoS - remember, the Gear Samples were supposed to be sealed, and most lockers on station look exactly alike. That information being called out during the search is important. 5 hours ago, MattAtlas said: The exchange went something like me asking you if you were aware of the contents of the lockers, you saying no, then me saying "Okay well then we're keeping them as evidence, please leave", after which you refused to leave after being told to three times, then of course I used force to neck grab you and throw you out because you were being absolutely obstinate. I was obstinate in trying to get you to respect basic paperwork protocol. I was standing a literal tile from your front door. I was non-violent and not charged with anything. You decided to react with violence and ignore me afterwards. You were never forced by anyone to employ violence, nor to ignore me. Dealing with unpleasant people with legitimate requests is also part of security's job. Again, I invite you to check the logs, which will show that you reacting with pre-recorded ZI-text to any question I asked or demand I made. Which brings me to... 5 hours ago, MattAtlas said: Nobody wanted to arrest you or even deal with you, honestly. When I play an antagonist, I usually play them as antagonistic - that is, unpleasant, often aggressive, creepy, dysfunctional or annoying. I consider this to be a roleplay quirk on my part - it is certainly not an excuse for security not to take a legitimate paperwork request into account, especially one that concerns an SCC order. I "honestly" did not want to deal with security walking through my gimmick with jackboots, but here we are. 5 hours ago, MattAtlas said: So why the complaint then? We followed your paper trail.... You did not. You got busy for 30 minutes and then said fuck it, and ripped them open. Your words, not mine. If you had followed the paper trail, you would have faxed central for information, interrogated me, interrogated the person I was openly contracting for the shipment, interrogated the AI, checked the CE's office, from where the stamp was from etc, etc. You did none of those things before opening them. To answer your question, me complaint is here because security decided to spare themselves an actual investigation and busted the crates open despite a Command order they had no reason to think fake. Simply because they were suspicious, mostly OOC. Edited June 13, 2022 by Tagada formatting, spelling
MattAtlas Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 27 minutes ago, Tagada said: I think that it is in bad faith to imply that any antag was "given" 30 minutes of time by a 5-man security team as a result of some sort of team meta decision to go easy. As if giving antags time was part of security's OOC role - as if that time somehow benefited me, the antag. I don't believe that I was "given" anything and I certainly won't thank anyone for waiting before "ripping them apart". My issue is that you did rip them apart, not the time it took you. How is it bad faith? What I'm telling you is that we did put in effort in finding reasonable cause to rip open the lockers. If we wanted to meta you we would've just opened them instantly and be done with it. It is not like it wasn't obvious, like I said. 29 minutes ago, Tagada said: I in no way implied that. There were plenty of things that security could have done to actually open that cargo with legitimate reasons. From simple asking the extremely helpful unlawed AI who helped me through the process and assisted in the wrapping, to tailing me, doing CSI (I left prints and fibers everywhere), sending a fax requesting help, interrogating the extremely suspicious merchant and assistant that I was trailing around with, in plain sight, investigating the CE's office, where the stamp was from down to simply interrogating my character, the suspected antag. - 1. We didn't know the AI was unlawed or even assisted you, really. 2. We didn't have a CSI for most of the round. One only showed up when Volle started murdering people. 3. We didn't need a fax simply because we already established reasonable cause that those lockers were the most suspicious things in existance. 4. We already knew you were probably behind it all. 5. You were going to be interrogated after we opened the lockers, but Volle's murder offset that by quite a bit. 31 minutes ago, Tagada said: I mean that after the HoS confirmed that the crates were not the type that originally contained the stolen weapons, they were looked at again (I forget the officer's name) who called out the same information for a second time on the security comms. See my previous point about crates mechanically looking the same when wrapped. 31 minutes ago, Tagada said: You have access to the logs of the round in question, not I. Go look. There were at least five of you - and that was information on an ongoing investigation straight from the HoS. As far as I know, the HoS sent a fax, but it was a simple status report not a call for request, or even asking a confirmation of my "Gear Sample Crate" story. Security could have sent another one. They didn't. I don't care about having the logs of the round - I physically didn't have this information, period, it doesn't matter if I have the logs now or if it was said - I didn't catch it. Again, we didn't send a fax because we didn't need to. 32 minutes ago, Tagada said: It's not pedantic, not completely, not partially - the particular type of lockers that I used was a specific detail mentioned by the HoS - remember, the Gear Samples were supposed to be sealed, and most lockers on station look exactly alike. That information being called out during the search is important. It is completely pedantic and unreasonable, period, and I am not budging. All wrapped crates and lockers look the same in game. You cannot claim that I am metagaming for suspecting that those crates are the very same ones that were stolen from the armoury, simply because when wrapped all lockers look the same. 34 minutes ago, Tagada said: I was obstinate in trying to get you to respect basic paperwork protocol. I was standing a literal tile from your front door. I was non-violent and not charged with anything. You decided to react with violence and ignore me afterwards. You were never forced by anyone to employ violence, nor to ignore me. Dealing with unpleasant people with legitimate requests is also part of security's job. Again, I invite you to check the logs, which will show that you reacting with pre-recorded ZI-text to any question I asked or demand I made. Which brings me to... Not even sure what this derailing is about, considering my security play is now apparently an issue, but let's break this down: You are in a restricted area. I tell you to leave because you are in the way. You do not leave. I repeat to you to leave. You do not leave. I repeat to you to leave or I will use force. You do not leave. I neck grab you and put you on a chair. No violence was used here and this does not seem like an unpredictable course of events. Furthermore, what basic paperwork protocol are you even talking about? You walked up to us saying that the lockers were tampered with and asked why we did it, when it's not even your authority to care OR give a shit about a command order. You cannot force us nor demand us nor ask us to do anything. I don't know what "pre-recorded ZI-text" is supposed to mean, other than you snarkily implying that I didn't give a shit about roleplaying with you, which is a great start. Not going to bother replying to the rest nor to any other post you make. The rest of your post completely ignored what I outlined above as valid reasonings for our suspiciousness and you still seem to be under the delusion that we were completely clueless and ran no investigation whatsoever.
Tagada Posted June 13, 2022 Author Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) Your post is hostile to the extreme and I'm not sure why since you - apart from refusing a paperwork request outright - weren't even involved in opening the crates, as far as I know. I don't really care whether you reply or not, but I wish to address the misdirection in your reply. 40 minutes ago, MattAtlas said: 1. We didn't know the AI was unlawed or even assisted you, really. 2. We didn't have a CSI for most of the round. One only showed up when Volle started murdering people. 3. We didn't need a fax simply because we already established reasonable cause that those lockers were the most suspicious things in existance. 4. We already knew you were probably behind it all. 5. You were going to be interrogated after we opened the lockers, but Volle's murder offset that by quite a bit. 1. So for an hour of stealth-theft antag, not one person in a heavily staffed security thought to ask the AI if they've seen anything suspicious? How is that my fault? 2. Which was before my crates being busted open. 3. "Reasonable cause" implies that you have an actual reason apart from OOC suspicion to open the crates. You had none. You were simply, very, very suspicious for no particular reason. There are a 1000 crates and closet aboard. 4. Yes, you, the players did. The characters may have suspected. Did they act out their suspicion by investigating? No. 5. Why not before? Don't you interrogate the suspect before breaking a stamped command order, perhaps to make sure you should? Because that's what SoP and common sense would suggest. 40 minutes ago, MattAtlas said: See my previous point about crates mechanically looking the same when wrapped. 40 minutes ago, MattAtlas said: It is completely pedantic and unreasonable, period, and I am not budging. You bring this up several times, even going as far as to say that I'm accusing you of metagaming. I've mentioned this before in the original report, but here it is again: The crates were unwrapped but unopened by the HoS. I'm not talking about the identical sprites for wrapped closets. I'm talking about closets with radically different sprites from the ones you were searching for. I (obviously) in no way accused you of metagaming. 40 minutes ago, MattAtlas said: I don't care about having the logs of the round - I physically didn't have this information, period, it doesn't matter if I have the logs now or if it was said - I didn't catch it. Again, we didn't send a fax because we didn't need to. The fact that security's internal communication sucked that round is not my fault. If people would have passed essential information - or had asked for it from one another, you would have all known. Did a single person wonder about the fax the HoS sent? Did anyone think to want to verify the command order keeping you from "ripping them open"? No. It's just that none of you seemed to care. - You didn't even check the CE's office, where the stamp was from. You had literally no reason 'not' to send a fax. A single fax asking to confirm my command order would have unveiled the entire trick. 40 minutes ago, MattAtlas said: Not even sure what this derailing is about, It's not derailing - your answer speaks for itself. Someone was talking to you IG, someone was making a legitimate request that fit into your role IC and the situation - but your breakdown is only about what you said, repeated, did. Which is what I said - you ignored me. The same way you've left my own interaction with you out of your "breakdown". Further, I'm not "calling your security play" into question - I wouldn't question that based on such a brief interaction - but I am demonstrating that my attempts as antag to keep my gimmick on track were met with stonewalling. (And actual IC stonewalling, since all I got as an answer were automatic-sounding, official lines of text that some synthetics in security - including you - use for thematic effect.) Again, I'm not sure what I did to you specifically to deserve the kind of tone your posts have - dismissive, hostile and indicative of not having read my complaint fully. If I insulted you, I'm sorry, but I do believe that my complaint raises a legitimate issue with how security reacted that round - and perhaps points at a larger one with respect of SoP as a whole. Edited June 13, 2022 by Tagada spelling, wording edit for non-aggressive communication
Peppermint Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 Hi, I'll be taking this. After reading through, the very base issue that's being reported here @Tagada is that you feel security did not follow proper SoP in opening the lockers, and instead based it off of OOC reasoning?
Tagada Posted June 14, 2022 Author Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) I honestly believe that there was no malicious, direct metagaming involved. I'm not accusing people of conspiring, OOC, to ruin my gimmick. I do believe that security didn't differentiate between their OOC suspicion (which I helped generate and draw attention to myself) and their character's IC suspicion (which was based on no real proof apart from "locker = locker"). I believe that someone in the department, at least one person should have thought to actually investigate the issue before jumping to a decision as grave as ignoring a command order without command present. I also think that my character was treated as a distraction, stonewalled and the potential investigation almost completely ignored. If I had to speculate on why, I'd point to general problems with how certain styles security play and mentality currently work on Aurora vis a vis SoP - and that I played a loud, greasy, annoying, clearly antagonistic character they couldn't directly charge, which left them annoyed. Edited June 14, 2022 by Tagada
Peppermint Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 I understand. I'll take a look and should have this resolved by the weekend. In the meantime if you @DriedMilk wish to comment or add anything, please do so within the next few days - and anyone else present before I log search.
DriedMilk Posted June 15, 2022 Posted June 15, 2022 since i was asked to im going to post. i was the one to open the lockers after the hos cryo'd because the rest of security insisted on it and the armory got broken into with an explosive. the body armor got taken from the armory, all of this happened after the hos cryod btw so i decided to ignore the stamped paper because it was very convenient that a 2nd locker popped up after the armory got broken into by exploding a wall and breaching it, not exactly the most covert way to take something out 'under SCCs orders'. basically, i ignored the order because of what happened to the armory after the hos cryod which is enough reason imo at that point when you could see the remains of an explosion in the armory + the missing armor + the 2nd locker appearing in the hangar it was pretty easy to join 2 and 2 together and realize that it wasnt legitimate scc orders w/o needing to go thru extense investigation dunno if this broke SOP in one way or another, i dont think it did, and even if it did- breaking SOP is an IC issue even more so if what happened was someone clicking on 2 lockers and moving 1 of them to security
Peppermint Posted June 15, 2022 Posted June 15, 2022 Okay, all finished. From what I'm seeing, this was really only an IC issue all said and done - for the reasons I'll outline. The locker evidence Your character, Tagada, was the first to originally announce the crew armory had been broken into. In my mind, I would not raise an eyebrow if this in turn made you culprit number 1 from the get-go of something odd going on. Being around the lockers just compounds that. Returning to the scene of the crime and all that. There was no CE present to stamp the crate to begin with. Vanishing weapons and the appearance of two wrapped up boxes with a stamp from a command member who did not exist is also a lot and does not take all too much to guess the connection with. I this had been the only factor and had led to a quicker investigation directly to said boxes, then I feel there would be an issue. As is, this seems to have come pretty late in. Another character, Yihwa, reported the incident to security about how suspicious it was that they'd seen you wandering around with the crates very close to the break-in site. This was acted on by Excalibur and seems to have been a large part of their suspicion - as seen by them reporting it to security and using it to explain their thoughts over comms as to why you were potentially an issue. There was no CSI for the majority of the round, and the head of security left pretty early on into it all. Coupled with a much more murder-y antag that took priority and side-lined the investigation that was being discussed by sec. Whilst I would usually want a head of staff to sign off on them checking the lockers due to it, there wasn't really that option here. Putting this all together IC is not a stretch. If anything, security was very slow to really bother and there was a lot of chat over convincing themselves otherwise on reasons no to check the lockers - an unfortunate side effect of server culture, which I will come to. All in all, I don't think any rules on this section were broken. There would have been an issue if the CE stamp was instantly ignored, or something akin to that, rather than it being a number of contributing factors. I cannot speak for the entire admin team, but I personally look upon paperwork trails as an optional choice people can do if they so wish, but otherwise aren't required and their absence being an IC issue; the exception to this being faxes, command orders, and anything from CC. I also do not feel it is fair to penalise other players for the head of security not faxing and then going to cryo. And neither can I blame said HoS as it's not possible to know how things would have changed if they stayed. I understanding that you did your best to put together what could have been a fun scavenger hunt. And had there been less evidence, I would more likely agree that some meta knowledge went on, but things were just a little too obvious straight out of the gate. The Z.I issue The Z.I that threw you out of the lobby gave a whole bunch of threats beforehand to not be around and to leave. Likewise your character was very abrasive and aggressive, which is fine, but as such the ZI in return was not exactly polite back. I do not think this is a problem and it is very much an IC issue. Unfortunately the lack of ability to IR issues with antag rounds is a well documented problem, but is just how the server systems are built. No rule break. Closing notes - There's been some talk in here about how antags being 'given' the benefit of the doubt and some free rope is wrong/bad/irrelevant and I disagree. People are often required to 'give the antag a chance' even when it sometimes directly breaks character and plausibility, mostly to get the benefit of gimmicks having a chance. Otherwise the vast majority of rounds would involve dead antags 30 minutes in and no real interesting narrative -personal feelings aside, it's just a sacrifice between gameplay and roleplay which happened here too. If anything, security was very slow to really do anything about it, which likely contributed to a lack of investigation and interview (outside of at the very end of the round) - which I understand people do not wish to get into trouble or deal with bwoinks. - We do not require every department to act as if they were really employed. Medical is not required to learn medical terms. Engineers are not required to follow OISHA. People are not expected to be at their desk 27/4 This includes security not needing to treat very abrasive characters with the patience required of the role - so long as they're reasonable - per the Z.I. It's a video game first, a workplace in a distant third or fourth. - Again, I understand why this was a disappointing round for you, Tagada. You had a cool plan and it would have been likely more fun if things had clicked. But as is, I do not feel rules were broken and Aurora has always side-lined certain aspects of roleplay - paperwork, IC consequences on antag rounds, enforcement of sop oocly - in return for other things such as not immediately calling in the troops for lockers that look real shady with logic behind it that doesn't really make much IC sense. However! I have already spoken to some people about their conduct of this complaint outside of the game. That being the relay and some unkind things said. Otherwise it's all set and I'll be locking and archiving this within a day or so.
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