Staff Complaint - Peppermint96

[DahBunny]

BYOND Key: DahBunny
Staff BYOND Key: Peppermint96
Game ID: cnY-ckWu
Reason for complaint: Requested by peppermint due to contested veiwpoints
Evidence/logs/etc:

Additional remarks:

Simply unsure what else logically we were meant to do, we were completely unarmed, we were surrounded by and out numbered by security, they were breaking into our shuttle despite us complying, We had two options, turn it hostile, which would lead too a very short engagement and then nothing for the rest of the round, or flee, which would be alot more logical, so we chose to flee, i thought we were meant to act like actual people when in situations not unhinged folks.

Quick edit, its not like were hiding near or planning the use of our shuttle, we were marched too it by security.

Edited May 24, 2023 by DahBunny
Additional context

[Syncron]

Adding my side here.

We had plans to bribe people after the initial robberies, and interact like the newly rich thieves we were, But the Head of Security broke into our ship, despite us being perfectly reasonable and agreeing to let them search it. His excuse was 'Nobody told me'. He is the head of security. Does he not know how to communicate?

Considering we were thieves, and not crazy nutbags, We used the teleport pins to get on the shuttle, and force a launch to escape considering the ENTIRE security department showed up. Due to the damage, the Unathi almost died, but after healing back at base, we used a teleport locker to get back to try to interact more. But to be blunt, Security should not be getting fully armed. One had a lethal shotgun, the HoS had a giant ass tranq gun, despite nobody being harmed, no injuries reported, no explosives. Are sidearms just a toy?

That complaint aside, Peppermint was doing their job, I understand, But antags can't try to cause RP if security just robusts us the moment they metagame us as the criminals. Because frankly thats what I feel like was going on. Why else did they rush to the hangers knowing a shuttle would be there, despite the only info that they had being 'The vault was robbed'.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Syncron
Typo

[Peppermint]

- Don't run away an hour in on your shuttle after just robbing the place. You're supposed to drive a narrative, as it says in the server rules. Doubly so on a deadpop round.

- Don't use the spawn base as an IC hideyhole as it's more of an OOC spawnpoint to get ready before heading out and is incredibly unfair for everyone else to deal with, however creative the teleporters were.

- I spoke to the head of security and told them off for arming their officers up so quickly. Your ticket was handled in your favour.

Nothing else to say.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Peppermint

[Syncron]

Just now, Peppermint said:

- Don't run away an hour in on your shuttle after just robbing the place. You're supposed to drive a narrative, as it says in the server rules.

- Don't use the spawn base as an IC hideyhole as it's more of an OOC spawnpoint to get ready before heading out and is incredibly unfair for everyone else to deal with, however creative the teleporters were.

- I spoke to the head of security and told them off for arming their officers up so quickly. Your ticket was handled in your favour.

Nothing else to say.

Exactly what narrative can be made from security rushing our ship, and preventing anything but a shootout? It was obvious that they expected a fight at the end of that encounter, and we did not give it to them. We had no intentions of leaving the Horizon after the thefts until security literally broke in. THEY marched us back, THEY broke into someone else's ship. Its a ship of stolen goods. What exactly are we meant to do? Let them arrest us, so nobody interacts with us at all? We had plans, which like all antags plans got ruined, But the fact that Kada went 'Im the acting captain, I can do what I want' ruining it is bullshit.

[Peppermint]

Okay. And I told them off over that like I said above? I'm not sure how I'm responsible for something someone else did, though I did resolve it.

[Syncron]

2 minutes ago, Peppermint said:

Okay. And I told them off over that like I said above? I'm not sure how I'm responsible for something someone else did, though I did resolve it.

My point is, you called them out AFTER the fact. As I said, I understand where you are coming from as an admin. But this post was made because of the fact that getting called out for using the only viable option that doesn't lead to a dead end doesn't sit right with me.

And on a semi-off topic: Security players really need to start getting bwoinked for getting up in arms so quickly. This isn't my first antag encounter where they just get heavily armed and armored the moment something seems amiss 

 

-----

This is my last post until its picked up.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Syncron
Added

[DahBunny]

I think we should all chill out and let someone outside the situation take a look.

[Peppermint]

They literally were bwoinked for arming up like that lol. And someone else doing something wrong does not allow other people to do something wrong in return. You have teleporting pens, tc, and weapons. Leaving an hour in isn't alright, and neither is setting up impossible to reach teleports. I don't know what else there is to add.

[Garnascus]

Security engaging in disallowed behavior does not meat you can do the same. It is not intended that you're able to return to your spawn area and utilize it as a base so peppermint is correct in telling you not to do this. Antags are generally not expected to leave an hour in like that regardless of the reason. You would need to obtain staff permission first to do this. 

[White Void]

Hey there, i'm Kada player, the whole not knowing thing was honest that i only saw a message about there being a shuttle on the hangar, not who it belonged to,  i'm unsure if the officers didn't tell me or was because i was distracted irl at the time, so when i arrived i said i would ground it due to the vault theft, which resulted in me breaking the cockpit glass to take the fuel thing (not sure if those even have the phoron fuel canister), if i had honestly read the message about you two coming over to let us search i would have never broken the window, and iirc i think i also offered to have engineering repair it

 

And early on when the vault thing happened i returned to sec i handed the two officers a energy carbine and strictly told them to only use non lethal if it came to it, though i now know even handing it to them in the first place was a bad move, and in regards to the warden with the shotgun and heavy armor i actually didn't tell them to get it at all, those times in the investigators office with me speaking in the headset was actually telling them to take off the heavy armor and get rid of the lethal ammo on the shotgun, unsure if anyone else was armed besides them.

 

But yeah, i did a bad move in regards to arming the two, on my mind the IC excuse was being that we didn't know who did it, but considering it was a high security area it seemed warranted the 2 energy carbines.

 

Though the I'm the Captain thing, was mostly due to not having a formal warning about the shuttle docking and you two escaping.

Edited May 25, 2023 by White Void
Grammad and adding more things

[Syncron]

2 hours ago, Garnascus said:

Security engaging in disallowed behavior does not meat you can do the same. It is not intended that you're able to return to your spawn area and utilize it as a base so peppermint is correct in telling you not to do this. Antags are generally not expected to leave an hour in like that regardless of the reason. You would need to obtain staff permission first to do this. 

I will outright say the shuttle itself brought us back. The console literally lets you do it, and says doing so is a one way trip, and we saw no messages or rules saying not to go back If this is a rule, please make sure it is actually stated somewhere for this kind of role because that isn't going to be assumed since it says nothing about it, and antags cannot read minds. The method we used to return was the locker on the shuttle that was used to escape the vault. Absolutely no antag tools were used on the base for escapes, returns, or otherwise this is also the only reason we used the shuttle to escape, because we had a way back. We used it to drop the loot off after robbing, and had absolute 0 intention of going back to the base prior. The only reason we fled that way, was because the 2 slowest species in the game, unarmed, just ran into security breaking into another vessel without proper cause. If we 'tried' to run, aside from looking hilariously slow outside of an unathi's 0.5 second sprint, We'd be arrested and that ends everything. If we tried to fight, when all of our guns were on the shuttle, we'd be beaten down, and arrested. Because of this, the only option that looked viable to not end up in jail, was to get out of there, and return as we did after healing due to the depressurization. Security themselves marched us back to the shuttle. I would like to point out as well however, that no form of investigation was done on the vault. It was an immediate 'We got robbed, and theres a ship in the hanger. Rush it'. Had they properly even investigated it, they'd have us dead to rights, as anything we broke in through we didn't wear proper gloves on purpose.

 

Another little additional note, regarding Kada. Acting captain or not, You cannot just forcibly implant 2 people with tracking implants when they have not been convicted of any crimes, when they also already had security escorts watching their every move. I checked corp regulations, and we spoke of this on the discord to see about it after the fact.

I was not adding additional info due to waiting for another admin to get involved.

 

Quote

and iirc i think i also offered to have engineering repair it

By doing this the way you did, you already forced our hand, because it gave us no options other than escape, due to the fact that we literally JUST got to the shuttle moments earlier when security rushes us with no good reason to explain why they suspected it other than 'Shuttle we don't recognize is there'. Especially when we tried to push the narrative that it was there since the last jump, when Kada was not on duty.

 

Quote

And early on when the vault thing happened i returned to sec i handed the two officers a energy carbine and strictly told them to only use non lethal if it came to it, though i now know even handing it to them in the first place was a bad move, and in regards to the warden with the shotgun and heavy armor i actually didn't tell them to get it at all, those times in the investigators office with me speaking in the headset was actually telling them to take off the heavy armor and get rid of the lethal ammo on the shotgun, unsure if anyone else was armed besides them.

There was no reported deaths, no explosions, nothing that would even tell you lethal weapons, even on non lethal settings, would be required. By the time the vault was reported, it was already robbed, and nobody saw anybody leaving. Security had no reason to believe the robbery JUST happened. Theres investigative tools for that.

 

 

And as a random note, That shuttle doesn't even fly normally. It cannot. It can ONLY dock outside of the Horizon, in the hanger, or on the docks. So theres literally no other method to escape and not die or get arrested other  than the option we chose.

 

-----

To summarize however, We had no intentions of returning to the base, at all, until security forced our hand by putting us in a situation that removed any other options. We had no weapons on, Heavy was a G2, I was an Unathi, and we had security surrounding us, as well as railings preventing escape On top of the fact that security, bwoinked or not, had heavy firearms and put us in a situation where we had to think on our feet, or just let the RP end in a prison. We actually planned to bribe people after the robbery, but that obviously did not work due to the events involved. The only other options would be try to fight, and get KO'd/Killed, Try to run, get arrested instantly because we are slow, or do what we did. We took the option that would let us return, because we had intended to do more afterwards. It was sheer... chance that the tele locker ended up in the Investigators office however, after the inhibitor exploded, which forced the Karen Unathi situation demanding to speak to someone from SCC.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Syncron
Added an additional note

[White Void]

We assumed the vault had been stolen just now due that a cardox grenade just showed up on the kitchen and things started to appear elsewhere, there was a investigation on the vault later on, but no fingerprints showed up on it only fibers that for some reason the microscope wouldn't accept, as i said, the problem of the situation was that i missed vital info, and that i should not have armed anyone, i also implanted the two few seconds before jump solely for rp reasons of they sticking around on the ship etc until investigations are done and the round had pretty much ended, i 100% didn't intend this whole matter to happen.

You can ask other antag players what their experience with Kada being a active HoS was, i  negotiate whenever possible, leave them with the uplink despite them having left it open,  allow two technos to use the chapel for their magic studies etc.

I knew the pen the unathi gave me wasn't the actual teleport pen as well.

That round i was very distracted irl which caused a lot of things to go poorly on my end

Once again i'm sorry how things turned out, it sure wasn't my intention at all.

Edited May 26, 2023 by White Void

[Syncron]

6 hours ago, White Void said:

there was a investigation on the vault later on, but no fingerprints showed up on it only fibers that for some reason the microscope wouldn't accept

Thats incredibly odd, considering we didn't wear proper gloves or anything else until the final heist. As in literally seconds before disabling the turrets. There should have been fingerprints galore.

 

6 hours ago, White Void said:

You can ask other antag players what their experience with Kada being a active HoS was, i  negotiate whenever possible, leave them with the uplink despite them having left it open,  allow two technos to use the chapel for their magic studies etc.

Thats why finding you just breaking into the shuttle was outrageous. It was entirely out of character for you, and it forced us to take an action we would have otherwise not even done.

6 hours ago, White Void said:

I knew the pen the unathi gave me wasn't the actual teleport pen as well.

That round i was very distracted irl which caused a lot of things to go poorly on my end

Once again i'm sorry how things turned out, it sure wasn't my intention at all.

The pen fell on the floor when I changed my bloody clothes after nearly dying, so I had to come up with some BS on the spot about the return being a one way trip. Thats why you were given a random pen (Amusingly, that was actually stolen from the investigator's desk before you arrived.)

 

I'm pretty sure Bunny's main concern posting this is internal notes that can get people into trouble due to everything that happened. I'd rather this just be closed and done with. But thats up to the admins and Bunny. I'm just the second party responding from my side of the situation.

 

 

[White Void]

17 minutes ago, Syncron said:

Thats why finding you just breaking into the shuttle was outrageous. It was entirely out of character for you, and it forced us to take an action we would have otherwise not even done.

This will be my last post on the thread, and yeah, not sure what was going on with me at the time, maybe i was having a bad moment or something, i had just taken my medicine so not sure if it's involved but for the end of the doubt i will just not play around that timezone to avoid something like this happening again for safety sake.

And me seeing a complaint pop up involving the situation made me feel guilty, so i wanted to apologize for everything, and at least say that isn't normal behavior for me

 

17 minutes ago, Syncron said:

Thats incredibly odd, considering we didn't wear proper gloves or anything else until the final heist. As in literally seconds before disabling the turrets. There should have been fingerprints galore.

Honestly not sure either, since i used the powder on everything (without gloves i might add so mine would show up as well to not get confused) even on the open windoor but it didn't yield anything, i got fibers from the turret console and said windoor but the microscope didn't react to it, no message at ally

Edited May 26, 2023 by White Void
Adding one more bit

[Peppermint]

The more people post the less I understand. It feels like this is supposed to have been a complaint on security, but they were spoken to so I'm unsure why it was on me. If it was supposed to be on me, I'm not really following why it has been such a big thing. I told you not to do two things in aooc and then handled your security ticket. Nobody was banned. Nobody was even warned. Are you disagreeing that antags should be allowed to just leave whenever or are you disagreeing that I said not to use the base as a hideaway? I'm really not getting it.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Peppermint

[Syncron]

2 hours ago, Peppermint said:

The more people post the less I understand. It feels like this is supposed to have been a complaint on security, but they were spoken to so I'm unsure why it was on me. If it was supposed to be on me, I'm not really following why it has been such a big thing. I told you not to do two things in aooc and then handled your security ticket. Nobody was banned. Nobody was even warned. Are you disagreeing that antags should be allowed to just leave whenever or are you disagreeing that I said not to use the base as a hideaway? I'm really not getting it.

Bunny originally posted I believe disagreeing with your statement when it was our only way out without just outright ending the antag actions in a jail cell. I'll ping him to get him to respond, I dont think he frequents the forums much.

 

MY complaints were explicitly security related, because the actions taken were what caused everything to go down as they did. But the HoS in question admitted his wrongdoing and apologized, so I'd rather this be done.

-----

Additional: I believe the post was made specifically because it seemed like you were doing an official warning based on this:

and antags don't like marks on their permanent record

Edited May 26, 2023 by Syncron

[DahBunny]

Oh my only complaint was i didnt feel a warning was justified given we had no intention of taking that way out, until it was literally our only option, atleast without clarification in the notes that it was our last option (i presumed it went in the notes since it was a warning bwionk) the topic came about because you asked me to bring it too a staff complaint to continue contesting it. If you feel this is settled, feel free to close.

Edited May 26, 2023 by DahBunny
clarification and spell check.

[Peppermint]

Closed upon request then.