Give Expeditions / Offship Adventures the same protection against Antags as the Engines/Reactors

[geeves]

i'm not entirely convinced about this one yet so im opening it for discourse and maybe with multiple heads put together we can refine it or w/e


anyway, here goes. antagging on expeditions kinda suck, especially if a ling pops adrenalin sacs and starts armblading you on the intrepid. it feels cheap, and you can't really run away? i understand that you as a player take this risk by inviting someone on a non-extended round, but personally i feel the roleplay you can achieve from a canon expedition is far greater than what an antag can reasonably cook up at the snap of their fingers

but that isn't to say that ALL antagging on expeditions suck, there are times where i've been hunted on a planet predator style and it was AWESOME. so my suggestion is that it'll made policy that antags have to ahelp to do antag stuff off the ship, and have a member of staff vet that it's a good call or not


obviously there are edge cases, like an antag starting a gimmick and characters running onto the shuttle and blasting off like team rocket, but this would by common sense be a valid play by the antag, it wasn't their fault it was taken off the ship

[Fluffy]

Completely opposed to this, the protection afforded to the reactor main system and atmospheric system exist primarily because they would affect next to everyone, it's a level of destruction comparable to detonating a nuke but without the round actually ending afterwards, and kind of non-comparable to a ling doing ling things on a shuttle

Just because you can't escape from it (which is only a thing in-transit, once you're landed, you have an entire planet to escape into), it doesn't mean, nor should it mean, that the antag can't do antag things; if you want canon roleplay expeditions RP, you can vote extended

Also, this contraddicts the direction given in the suggestion direction given in:

[CourierBravo]

I'm also opposed to this, however, I think Geeves raises some genuine concerns and frustrations. Cycling in and out of the intrepid as a whole is very time consuming without straight up compromising the whole ship. So even though you can run, doing so can and will generate a giant headache for engineering staff if the intrepid comes back on any exoplanet without breathable oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere.

I think this is more just a symptom of airlocks being slow to cycle on Aurora. Taking up to a minute to cycle at times. It's also a symptom of engineering being a slow time consuming role. Its slow to cool down or heat up anything. Its slow to repair and build anything. And its especially slow to repair wiring and atmospherics.

[Evandorf]

Two things immediately came to mind:

- We have a lack of good, regular antag players due to the restrictions we place on them and the frustration of having to learn the balance needed to antag on an HRP server. Additional restrictions would exacerbate the issue. Your example of a cheap off-ship interaction is borderline ahelpable (lings killing is a whole different can of worms) but the difference between what sucks and what’s amazing is wholly dependent on the antag player. That’s true whether you’re on the main ship or not. You say that the fun you can have on a canon expedition is more than what the antag can conjure on the spot but isn’t this the normal extended vs antag argument wrapped in different context?

 

- As we move towards off-ship/overmap antags, interruptions of expeditions will become more commonplace.

[OolongCow]

I don't support singling out expeditions for special protections, though I would petition that it be added to the guide pages for antags and be treated as common courtesy by admins in ahelps that antags should be considerate of the crew's access to help. Security and medical emergencies are several magnitudes more serious alone on an exoplanet than aboard the Horizon. They should be reminded of that, and have it pointed out to them on the wiki and by staff that they should therefore not treat those situations identically. Beating a scientist over the head with a laser sword for mouthing off to you may be acceptable on the Horizon, but you may as well have just murdered them if you do so on the Intrepid.

Out in space in a small box with one exit, where no help is coming any time soon, an antag going on a killing spree is a lot less justifiable. It often feels like a masturbatory ego stroking, that they're able to shoot all of these fish in this proverbial barrel.

Edited February 16 by OolongCow