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Staff Complaint - abigbear


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BYOND Key: tomatik
Staff BYOND Key: abigbear
Game ID: N/A
Reason for complaint: I feel like the judgement passed was both biased and too harsh, there surely were better ways to handle the situation.
Evidence/logs/etc: image-35.png.9f10d7ef2368843cf50915c5daff71d4.png
Additional remarks: it's been two months!
I don't actually know how to do this, so i will tackle it point-by-point, like i have done previously.

>your behaviour was reviewed and found to not have improved enough in the five months since your unban

<It has improved, maybe not to the extent we would like to see, but i really was abysmal at the start of the 5 month period, there are notes and incidents that say as much, but improvements were made, major ones, including those that were made with assistance from bear, it really wasn't the best, but it was something, and it did help. I was willing to improve, i still am

>As a resident/intern in medical, you played over 70 rounds and rp as a fully competent doctor, this is power gaming

<I have gotten in trouble for being incompetent and making mistakes, to the point of being forced to do a live cross-examination with logs and recordings just to prove that i did nothing wrong, it's not in the notes, which is really strange, but it did happen.(the other incident is in the notes)
It was raised to my attention that residency system is different and i have a severe misunderstanding of it, that much can be worked with and improved, i'm certain of it.

>Your behaviour both observed by the ooc team and in the complaint is not realistic for a resident or acceptable considering your history.
 
<After reviewing my own history and notes, there really isn't mention of me being that much of a powergamer, or anything else regarding the complaint, the realism or anything of the sort, which is concerning. i very well know i'm not even remotely the best at this but after talking to other players, and even some admins, i was told i wasn't really that problematic as of late

>This will be your third permanent ban

<this is my first permaban in over five years, five years ago i was a shithead minor, and i don't think it's fair to judge me based off all the dumb shit i did back then. Punishment escalation here doesn't seem fair at all, it was a character complaint, i responded to the best of my ability and instead of getting pointers, a warning, a jobban for the department, anything, really, i got a first-strike permaban on a basis of pretty much first offence of powergaming.

I really hope there's a way to right this out somewhat, because it really doesn't seem fair to me, and i would love to get back to the server.
 

Edited by tomatik
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This decision was reached in conjunction with your player complaint at the same time. While I understand that both of your bans were old, the reality is you had been only recently unbanned five months ago. During this time, you were warned once already and then noted for poor play/ic interactions several times. Spending time observing your play during a few rounds, as well as reviewing the evidence brought forth in the player complaint of poor IC interactions, ooc jokes flavoured into IC jokes, as well as unrealistic self-harm, it was evident you were not quite getting it.

On top of this, during these observations, it was noted you were playing a completely competent surgical resident, which is a learner roll and berating/harassing your superiors as well. In your complaint you argued this kind of behaviour is because of the term "resident" which, if applying a modern day's logic may be a doctor in their final residency, would not excuse this kind of behaviour and your character would have been ejected from any residency program quite quickly and more than a fair bit self-antagonistic which you have been banned for multiple times in the past. Ignoring this, it's power-gaming. Just as we don't allow commando cadets, playing a completely competent surgeon and then extending that knowledge into other fields of medical play as a learner role which you had your character in for far too long simply wasn't acceptable.

At the end of the day, @ReadThisNamePlz and I reached this decision when viewing the totality of the situation and your history. I understand the bans are old, it does not negate them. When you appeal your bans, you are signing off that you understand the rules in their totality. Reasonable mistakes are one thing, but this was a pattern that was clearly identified. And as the escalation from a ban is to re-apply the ban, that is how we reached the conclusion that we did.

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Posted (edited)

First things first, I'd like to tackle the self-harm accusation, in no way was it my intention to make it look like it was self-harm, that's a topic one should take seriously.

Whacking yourself with a blunt sword replica with no intent of harming oneself doesn't really classify as "self-harm". The situation in question was pure farce. No blood was drawn. All it was, a simple hit with a dull sword on the arm, singular. You make it sound worse than it truly was.

It was said, in the moment, and then proven, moments later, that it truly wouldn't do any harm, and it wasn't supposed to, it was a farcical act.
 

Maybe I wasn't getting the way server works, but removing me permanently without much of prior contact isn't exactly making me get it more, sure, you're removing the unwanted element, but that's not really fair or just.

 

As for being a completely competent resident, It wasn't always the case, I have fucked up on multiple accounts, the notes say as much, so I decided to keep myself punted down in the learning role until I felt good enough about my ability and skill to actually step up to the proper surgeon role, but every time I tried to step out of the learning role I was proven that I wasn't anywhere skillful enough to actually step in. Sure, I was doing good with the basics and some advanced things, but not to the level of competence shown by other surgeon players.

 

As to superior harassment, the wording on the wiki has changed, the role is different now on paper, you're referring to other doctors, but the way you put it makes it look like I was hostile to actual superiors (at the time of the ban, the wiki had no concrete wording on other doctors being superiors), such as the CMO, or the Captain, which I wasn't, ever.

It could potentially lead to problems with the actual residency program, sure, that's not out of the question, but such things are dealt with by using words and giving pointers, as opposed to complete removal. I do wholeheartedly believe that it is something that can be worked and improved on instead.
 

7 hours ago, Bear said:

more than a fair bit self-antagonistic which you have been banned for multiple times in the past

To say this is on-par with the self-antagonism done previously is not fair at all, I believe there's are major differences between being upsetting to someone and doing something like:

 

2018, more than five years ago, ban for self-antagonism which actively included killing people while metacommunicating with another player (I'm pretty sure that counts as raiding).

 

another one in 2018, also more than five years ago, I did what basically was a terror attack on a transfer shuttle, which included gun violence and drugging people
 

I don't believe that it's fair at all to compare what I've done before with what was done now, it's just not there. Do people actually believe that these acts are the same?

 

My history does show offenses far worse, but with it, it also shows clear improvement. I may not be perfect, but, as others, including admins, have said, I have improved as a player, at least a little bit since then. I am willing to show work if you give me a chance to.


 

Spoiler

Actual notes for the two permabans I received for self-antagging before, they’re here for context, I am not proud of them.

 

2018-10-08 16:58:49 coalf has permabanned tomatik. - Reason: Metacommunications with user KIBORG04 and breaking the #34no-self antagging rule#34, along with lying and pretending to have broken english when he speaks fluently enough in LOOC. Ban escalated to permaban due to previous ban dodging. - This is a permanent ban.

 

2018-11-28 18:26:15 mattatlas has permabanned tomatik. - Reason: Drugged a wounded cadet with space drugs after the cadet specifically said &#39;no&#39; to painkillers, ran to the shuttle and instigated a firefight in which claims such as &#39;I will shoot the windows out, do not approach!&#39; as a non-antag. This is blatant self antagonism, you may appeal this permaban when you get a voucher from another server proving that you&#39;ve improved. Also admitted to doing this on purpose.

 


I was warned before for being an improper fit, I know i really wasn't doing my best, I have made mistakes, I know I made a ton of them, that's why I'm here, but patterns can be broken, previously I have made changes to my act whenever I was contacted, save for now, because nobody even tried to talk to me about being unrealistic or powergaming on a learning role, which isn't exactly fair, because I didn't exactly know I was doing things wrong. It wasn't done to cause grief or malice, maybe I was a systematic fuckup, but to call this a pattern is a bit much.

 

It's been more than five years since my previous ban, surely there's at least a tiny incline to go somewhat softer than a complete removal out of the gate.

 

Edited by tomatik
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Not every note/record is visible to players. Yes your bans were 5 years ago, however your unban was was only 5 months ago at the time.

 

I don't have too much else to add so I will leave it at that unless the handling staff has any other questions.

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17 hours ago, Bear said:

Not every note/record is visible to players

Notes and records were provided by the headmin, and, as per your decision, i am not really a player here anymore, i can't access my own notes nor records

17 hours ago, Bear said:

Yes your bans were 5 years ago, however your unban was was only 5 months ago at the time

In those 5 months i had a single warning after making a huge mistake, and a note regarding an inappropriate joke. That's not really that much to warrant a perma, is it?

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I would also like to go into detail on what exactly was done
Case-to-case basis would be great, generalized statements provided aren't the best for figuring such things out.
It'd be helpful to avoid such things in the future, even if the complaint goes nowhere(c'mon, this isn't getting any traction, we all know this), and i do have questions, such as;

You mentioned "ooc jokes flavoured into IC jokes", and i fail really connect any dots with that, if you could elaborate, that would be lovely.

Another one is "Clearly identified pattern", if it was a thing, why wasn't i informed of such a pattern forming? Surely if it's enough grounds for capital action, it should've been enough grounds for a lesser intervention

anyway, this is my excuse for a bump

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

It's been taking me a bit to parse the complaint, but I will let you know a few of my current thoughts on it.

  • I do think the behavior you were banned over has little relation to your actions in 2018. It's only relevant insofar that we have the 3 perma policy.
  • Your behavior when it comes to others is very poor but I couldn't really classify this as self-antagging. Just unreasonable belligerence.
  • There's been a failure in recordkeeping when it comes to noting your actions or applying warnings. People sometimes slip through the cracks but after over 70 rounds I would hope the administrative staff had more written on you. The ban is quite an escalation to me as it's citing things that ideally could have been discussed beforehand.

So, the perma is definitely excessive to me. What I am working out is what the next step might look like. It's still very bad that things got to the point your presence was driving more than a few people away. I also know for a fact that I've spoken to you about resident being a learner role soon after the round where you took someone's heart out.

Also

On 01/05/2024 at 22:44, tomatik said:

As to superior harassment, the wording on the wiki has changed, the role is different now on paper, you're referring to other doctors, but the way you put it makes it look like I was hostile to actual superiors (at the time of the ban, the wiki had no concrete wording on other doctors being superiors), such as the CMO, or the Captain, which I wasn't, ever.

To further clear things up for you, the role is not different. It was clarified. Interns (and thus, residents since they are the same) have always been subordinate to the rest of medical. And regardless, you aren't their peers even as a licensed Doctor. You should have considered them and I think it's a bit strange you acknowledge your actions could have led to problems but placed the blame on others to inform you about it. A member of staff OOCly should have taken you aside yeah, but you can't just do what you did.

Anyway, sorry that this has been a lengthy amount of time. I will try to expedite my deliberations and potentially ask you a few questions later if need be.

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