FlamingLily Posted Wednesday at 07:27 Share Posted Wednesday at 07:27 Earlier today, at the time of writing, we had a round where a fight broke out between two characters. One character attacked the other, causing damage so severe that said second character suffered brain damage and memory loss. Myself, and the other members of security at the time, naturally were the ones to impose charges. Except, we didn't really know what charges to impose. Obviously, battery and minor assault didn't apply. Manslaughter didn't either, as no one had died (and you can't have "Attempted Manslaughter"). So, we were stuck between two charges. Assault, which I personally feel is insufficient for injuries of that severity. And Attempted Murder, which I personally feel doesn't quite fit with the whole intention and premeditation thing. Minor assault covers any injuries that leave no lasting damage. A few punches, a minor fight. If you don't really need medical care to fix it, it's minor assault. Regular Assault therefore covers every other non-fatal injury that can possibly be inflicted. This can include anything from a single stab with a knife to dismembering a person with said knife (as long as the victim survives). To me, those two acts can't logically be bundled into the same offence. It's a bizzare state of affairs and although the confusion probably comes up quite rarely, I still think it's worth examining. The exact specifics of the charge (time, class, whatever) i'm not sure of, but my gut instinct is to say identical to Assaulting a head of staff. 300 tier, 20 min standard offence, 40min + tracker for repeat offence Quote Link to comment
Carver Posted Wednesday at 21:29 Share Posted Wednesday at 21:29 The sec main in me tells me that Attempted Murder applies given the extent of the physical harm, as that amount of brain damage sounds as though it would have been fatal without intervention. I don’t really see a need for another charge in the book, as this isn’t one of those cases where it’s cumbersome to find an appropriate charge (compared to others like bribery where there isn’t really a charge for it). Quote Link to comment
Bear Posted Wednesday at 21:51 Share Posted Wednesday at 21:51 In this instance, in particular, the extent of injuries was very questionable last night and much of it was drummed up with little backing evidence. However, the attack in question was still severe. And so what should be advised is taking a look at the intent as SS13 is not always a 1:1 with the real world. A few clicks on the ground, in this case, did a fair amount of damage, that much was certain. Assault is given a broad range because of situations like this. When the assault is severe, and leaves lasting injuries, I highly advise following up with Incident Reports as certain situations do need to be looked at for more permanent solutions or consequences. Murder should be saved for when there is an attempt to kill, successful or otherwise, and there is little doubt. Was a lethal weapon, such as a knife, axe, or firearm utilized, how severe were the injuries? It's usually pretty easy to tell. Did the offender stop after they went down? Or did they continue to attack until pulled off? While yes, a head stomp in the real world is insanely wild, remember that unless specific attacks are selected in your check attacks tab, the game may default to it with or without the player's knowledge. When applying a murder or attempted murder charge, ensure you have droves of supporting evidence. The bar for assault is MUCH lower on purpose, as the charges in question still leave command players as well as the Incident Report system to follow up on whatever needs to be done via suspensions, permanent reprimands, or character terminations. From the OOC side of things when you apply a murder charge you have now ended that character's round both for gimmicks and for canon. Be certain before you apply it. 1 Quote Link to comment
FlamingLily Posted yesterday at 08:40 Author Share Posted yesterday at 08:40 On 07/11/2024 at 08:51, Bear said: From the OOC side of things when you apply a murder charge you have now ended that character's round both for gimmicks and for canon. Be certain before you apply it. This isn't something I had even considered but yeah, a full (attempted) murder charge is kind of a big deal whereas something timed generally has less sway so I think it would be good to have something more severe than standard Assault without the connotations of murder Quote Link to comment
OolongCow Posted yesterday at 11:16 Share Posted yesterday at 11:16 This is unfortunately a grey area where it doesn't exist for gameplay considerations, even though it occasionally causes issues like these. As Bear said, you should apply the assault charges in-round and follow up with a more thorough offering up as to what exactly happened in an IR if applicable. Keep in mind, the security team isn't actually granted authority by a civil government to levy legitimate criminal punishment. They aren't uniformed representatives of a government granted power by civil contract. Character security records have no weight outside of the corporate setting, as the SCC, while partnered with the Republic of Biesel and granted a LOT of far-reaching power, doesn't actually have the authority to send someone to an "SCC court" and put them in an "SCC prison". If the crime is serious enough, they're going to be handed over to the government for punishment. But only CCIA can decide to do that. Your job is to decide whether the extent of what someone did is something the ship can handle (in-round punishment), or something CCIA should handle (an IR). CCIA then decides if the company will handle it (probation, demotion, firing), or something the Republic of Biesel's justice system will handle (criminal charges). You personally deciding whether they assaulted someone or tried to murder them is less relevant than CCIA's findings, which depend on the records you took, the observations you made, and the evidence you gathered. Your opinion matters, but what charge you give that person is just an admission of your opinion, rather than a Judge Dredd-esque declaration of someone's guilt and summary punishment. Security and command only really reserve the authority to declare someone guilty of small crimes. You don't get to decide "this guy is a murderer" without a trial. You just get to say "we suspect he is the murderer and will be holding him until Biesel comes and gets him". That's why execution is off the table, and marooning and cyborgification are supposed to be close-to-the-chest and extremely heavy decisions only captains can make in the direst of circumstances. Because every bad man the ship catches is supposed to be handed over to Biesel for their day in court. Basically, in instances like these, you should worry most about gathering every single scrap of evidence you can for CCIA rather than "deciding the fate" of the perpetrator. Because you really aren't. You're the lawman who catches them and handles the immediate issues, not the justice system that punishes them for what they did. Quote Link to comment
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