Staff Complaint - Lmwevil

[limette]

BYOND Key: Lorilili
Staff BYOND Key: Lmwevil
Reason for complaint: Admittedly, this is going to be a clumsy complaint - to be clear, I am not contesting the ban itself, or even upholding the ban for some other reason. I am specifically contesting the reason my ban was upheld. That being having 'ban evaded a discord ban within a day of a denied appeal.'

My perspective is simply as follows; the day I filed that appeal, I joined the Discord to look over the incident that got me banned. I left again I believe the next day, having sent no messages as far as I am aware (which a friend of mine attested to being the case to me - if that is incorrect, please tell me.) As seen in the messages below, I thought I had done so before the appeal - apparently, I had done so after filing the appeal. I will admit to having apparently misremembered this detail in that case. The crux of my point is that if this 'ban evasion' is grounds itself to maintain a permanent ban, it feels weakly so. I did not use this ban evasion to do... anything. I didn't talk, I didn't join the game, I didn't do a single thing other than search keywords to try to find the incident that had happened. It was, at most, a lapse in judgement wherein I joined the Discord without thinking it through heavily. I don't think the spirit of the rule was for cases like this so much as people logscraping in the background or participating in the Discord actively. Were I intending to truly ban evade, I probably wouldn't be doing it with an account that currently sports my forum username and avatar. To further contest the exact wording of the denial, I did technically do it within a day of a denied appeal - though I'm almost certain it was before the denial itself, not afterwards. If I am wrong about that, I'd drop all contesting here because that'd frankly be an embarrassing misunderstanding.

I do apologize for having done so and admit that it was a lapse of judgement; I just feel that it is clear that I did not have malicious intent in doing so. It genuinely was not my intent to try to evade the ban, I clicked on the link available on the Wiki to fact-check myself without thinking of what that meant is all. I don't exactly have a recording of as much, so you'll have to take my word for it, but I am fairly certain that I did not speak in the Discord even once during this period or do anything else but search up keywords to find those logs and leave shortly (the next morning, I think?) after.

I can now see how this constitutes ban evasion in any case; I can perfectly reasonably see this being upheld by the letter of the law. I just hope that its clear that my intent was not to subvert the rules or anything malicious.
Evidence/logs/etc: My own description of the events and Lmwevil's correction. Sent from my current (new) Discord account (limettelime) after having deleted my old ones.

Additional remarks: As I said, I understand if this doesn't overturn the ban. I simply want to clear the record that I was not pulling an 'UponASeaOfStars' and showing up to intentionally evade the ban and manipulate narratives or what have you.

[Lmwevil]

People rarely ban evade in 'malicious intent', people who ban evade to grief are like .0001% of people on byond, most people who ban evade are because they cannot tolerate the consequences of their actions, or have become so impatient that they would rather do that than wait it out. 

Your intent behind the ban evasion is irrelevant, the fact you did it proves you have no place in this community. 

You are also not contesting the reason for the ban, or my conduct, so I don't exactly see what the complaint is as at no point did an allegation of malicious ban evasion get levied. You admitted you ban evaded, I said you ban evaded, there's no grey area it's all pretty clear cut. 

[Lmwevil]

I should amend and say I do recognize it sucks being banned, and I can understand why people may consider evading. But this kind of ban, at least when I apply it will have at least two or more years before I can believe your character has had enough sufficient time to mature before I'd personally even consider unbanning. 

In a general sense, ban evasion is just about the highest escalation of punishment we get to on, because doing it once means they will probably do it again. 

I can sympathize with your position, but I stand by my ruling completely and will await the complaint review with no further comments unless they have questions.

[limette]

5 hours ago, Lmwevil said:

Your intent behind the ban evasion is irrelevant, the fact you did it proves you have no place in this community.

To offer clarification since it seems necessary, this is what I am contesting specifically. I am not contesting that I did in fact join the Discord for probably less than a day, nor am I contesting the ban itself. I am specifically contesting the idea that the intent of this rule was to punish something as inane as this with a permanent "Don't come back."
In fact, the relevant rule on the rules page does specifically call into question intent. This is probably rules-lawyering a bit, but the whole point I'm making here is one of intent. It specifically says "Multikeying with intent to bypass punishment, such as warnings, bans; to deceive server administration in general; or to bypass ingame mechanics, such as respawn timers, is a punishable offence."

Basically, to clarify fully, I am arguing that intent does matter here and mine was not at any point to deceive or bypass a thing; I only wanted to fact-check myself for my first appeal, hence the exact timing of it. I just didn't really think about the fact that doing as much is a mistake.

[Lmwevil]

You objectively used a different discord account to bypass punishment, such as your permanent ban. This you admitted to doing in this thread, and in the messages to me immediately after I denied your ban appeal. "with intent to bypass punishment" is easily fulfilled by the fact that you bypassed your punishment and knew that you were doing so, by your own admission. 

Deleting your former discord account, and then a new one that is not permanently banned connects instead of as I said in your messages using an alternative such as messaging a staff member or player such as the original intermediary that you used to ask me if you could appeal in the first place would have not influenced your appeal. 

It shows to a lack of foresight and a lack of self control, and adequately proves why we have ban evade rules as stringent as they are. 

[limette]

Okay. Close this, please.