PoZe's unjobban application

[PoZe]

BYOND Key: PoZe

Total Ban Length: Permanent

Banning staff member's Key: Tablespoon

Reason of Ban: Synth ban for powergaming as drone. Dismantling drone consoles to prevent malf AI from blowing them up. Calling the shuttle as a drone.

Reason for Appeal: Idk... Maybe because permament jobban for All synthetics is too much in additional tablespoon permajobbaned me and he banned me for one week. I think he should took my IPC whitelist too with Head and bann me on the Forums.

I had a lot of disscussion about this situation with other people from Aurora and from some moderator staff. Drone laws are stupid, yes they are wastefull, but still you can manipulate them and Not calling shuttle while having malf AI(because you can HEAR binar channel) is against your law to maintain and upgrade your station at all cost.

Second part is about AI: it was powergaming - from the beginning of the round it start hacking hidden area(It was a sign that player is not new or he is just powergame asshole), second thing is that he have blowed up cryogenic freezer, then when CMO(the only head) tries to do something with communication console AI blowed it up, then he blowed up Captain's ID and other console. There was not engineers at this round and CMO were dying. So he left station from any chance to win: No captain ID, the onle head is dying, no communication console, no cryo freezer, all light were blown up. I have ahelped about this AI that round and didn't received anything. Some drone tries to betray AI and shocked doors so people will notice that AI did it, not drone. Then AI have blowed up all two drones there were at this round. All people that were dead have joined as a drone and eventually were blowned up by AI. I have joined as a drone and heard at binary channel "From this moment you will destroy any drone on sigh". Drones are not that stupid as you can tell me, it's still a machined based on logical code. Even so with 0 and 1 you can make "IF" and with "IF" you can make a new more complex analyse understanding of what is wrong and right.

Anyway, I have deconstructed all the drone consoles and I have fixed bridge with Communication console(that was hard), then I have called shuttle. Not with intention to actually evacuate, mostly to get to HOP(that just arrived and were not aware of anything) that console is fixed, Becuase HOPD didn't do anything and I didn't want to blow up the final circuit for Communication console. After that Tablespoon have Pmed me, we had some arguiming. THen I goes to have some breakfast for 10 minutes(I have warned him), when I came and ahelped that I am ready to continue I have received message "I am giving you a ban for 1 week and as I know you have jobban for synthetic". I said "My synthetic ban expire due to the time" were some pause and boom "You have been jobbaned for(haven't seen the time, I thought it's a week - it's a permanent ban as Tish said now)" then other message "You were banned for one week".

[Guest Menown]

See, it doesn't matter what the AI did. You broke your laws. You interacted with an AI, and other people, not to mention tried to derail the round by calling a shuttle. You /never/ call the shuttle as a drone.

[PoZe]

See, it doesn't matter what the AI did. You broke your laws. You interacted with an AI, and other people, not to mention tried to derail the round by calling a shuttle. You /never/ call the shuttle as a drone.

You see "Interacting with AI" Means that I pull out my wrench and smack the core. "fixing bridge and communication console, deconstructing drone console" doesn't interact with AI at all.

About shuttle two questions. 1- why I have such functions then? 2 - How I can maintain station at all const if AI is blowing the shit up and his cyborg /are/ interacting with me by flashing me and smaking with welder?

[TishinaStalker]

1- why I have such functions then?

 

Thaaaat's a horribly flawed question. Simply because you can do it doesn't mean you shouldn't stop and think "Should I really be doing it?" It's like Captain. Has access to the armory whenever he gosh darn pleases because it's a function of his. Should he be entering it to get guns on code green? We expect players to have common sense so that we don't have to needlessly waste time coding in things to stop them. Do we really need to spend additional time in making drones unable to interface with all computers? It's easier and better to trust our players to think "Wait, that seems stupid for me to do, and could be against my laws."

Also, uhhhh, just to clarify the bit where you included me: You asked me how long your job ban was. I looked at your notes, accidentally read your server ban, and I thought it was a timed job ban. Then I corrected myself by telling you that your SERVER ban was one week and that the job ban was permanent.

[PoZe]

1- why I have such functions then?

 

Thaaaat's a horribly flawed question. Simply because you can do it doesn't mean you shouldn't stop and think "Should I really be doing it?" It's like Captain. Has access to the armory whenever he gosh darn pleases because it's a function of his. Should he be entering it to get guns on code green? We expect players to have common sense so that we don't have to needlessly waste time coding in things to stop them. Do we really need to spend additional time in making drones unable to interface with all computers? It's easier and better to trust our players to think "Wait, that seems stupid for me to do, and could be against my laws."

Also, uhhhh, just to clarify the bit where you included me: You asked me how long your job ban was. I looked at your notes, accidentally read your server ban, and I thought it was a timed job ban. Then I corrected myself by telling you that your SERVER ban was one week and that the job ban was permanent.

Yes Tish, that is how I have included you. Nothing more.

[TishinaStalker]

Oh, okay, I was just a bit confused with your wording.

[Guest]

1- why I have such functions then?

Dones were rushed, their code was copied from cyborg code and not restricted anywhere around the code except what could be restricted by the race modifiers.

We decided long ago before we even started adding them in that Dones are not mini captains and they can not do things like call a crew transfer shuttle or the cargo shuttle, because that forces people to stop working or wait while the drone does it's thing. That is a form of interacting/interfearing with the crew.

Drones do not have self preservation, if they die it's no problem, they should care or not if people are going to get hurt by something.

[PoZe]

1- why I have such functions then?

Drones do not have self preservation, if they die it's no problem, they should care or not if people are going to get hurt by something.

Which law states that? They are not to interact with crew. I didn't interacted with something that is Sapience or could be, unless you think that console is a smart thing and doors are to. I have fixed, I have done my purpose.

About "drones are wasting material" - that doesn't gives right to an antag make FUN only for himown by destroying all drones, people are jumping in the round to get second chance and not to be offened and what they feel when the have got blowed up or destroyed immediately?

[Guest]

The one that says interfering, you called the escape shuttle, that will interfere with their work.

Drones are mindless repair dones, they don't think they just repair.

Respawning as a Drone takes 10 minutes rather than half an hour, if the Drones were getting in the way of the antag/crew plans, yes they can blow them up.

[PoZe]

The one that says interfering, you called the escape shuttle, that will interfere with their work.

Drones are mindless repair dones, they don't think they just repair.

Respawning as a Drone takes 10 minutes rather than half an hour, if the Drones were getting in the way of the antag/crew plans, yes they can blow them up.

Scopes, have you seen Deadchat that round. Just lets do some experiment. You will play as a drone on Aurora one round, I will be malf AI that will blow you up and will blown other departments. I will look after which respawn you will stop to join the round and be pissed off by unabling to participate in the round.

You don't think about the players, you think about the laws of the drone or other jaz

[Guest]

Scopes, have you seen Deadchat that round.

No, and what would that do with your IC actions?

If you were acting off of things in deadchat then that's metagaming, if you are talking about people bitching in deadchat then that doesn't matter as they weren't the ones involved.

 

Just lets do some experiment. You will play as a drone on Aurora one round, I will be malf AI that will blow you up and will blown other departments. I will look after which respawn you will stop to join the round and be pissed off by unabling to participate in the round.

People have done that to me, I have joined to die immediately, I have been ganked unfairly. Please don't tell me how I would feel if it were to happen to me.

The malf saw you as a threat which was confirmed when you called the shuttle (Trying to contact the HoP)

If it was true that that was the only communication console circuit left, then the AI would screw themself over, because the moment they die there would be no way to call the shuttle, which forces the game to call the shuttle, that is hardcoded.

I can assure you that your whitelists were not touched, as I am one of two people who edit them, and Skull tells me whenever he does.

I just noticed this

All people that were dead have joined as a drone and eventually were blowned up by AI

Some drone tries to betray AI and shocked doors so people will notice that AI did it

Were you expecting Dones to save the day?

I side with the AI here, something tells me people were metagaming, if you want me to look through the logs in detail I will, because that second quote there is violating laws.

 

Second part is about AI: it was powergaming - from the beginning of the round it start hacking hidden area

This sounds like something you should report at the time through ahelps, if that fails and the round turns to a mess, player complaint, if it's bad enough, ban request.

[PoZe]

Scopes, have you seen Deadchat that round.

No, and what would that do with your IC actions?

If you were acting off of things in deadchat then that's metagaming, if you are talking about people bitching in deadchat then that doesn't matter as they weren't the ones involved.

 

Just lets do some experiment. You will play as a drone on Aurora one round, I will be malf AI that will blow you up and will blown other departments. I will look after which respawn you will stop to join the round and be pissed off by unabling to participate in the round.

People have done that to me, I have joined to die immediately, I have been ganked unfairly. Please don't tell me how I would feel if it were to happen to me.

And I know that too for my 5 years experience in SS13. I was on the worst servers too, but that is not important right now.

I have ahelped about the powergame of AI. No response as I said.

About drone that tried to point at the AI by shocking airlocks - well that was not me and you cannot see the VV logs.

I assume you are waiting for me to write "I did wrong, you are fully right for jobbaning me permanent and applying ban for one week"? - You will not see this untill I will get proper explanetions. This thread were made with purpose of "Maybe permanent jobban for ALL synthetics and additional ban for one week is more then it's the punishment?" - I can make you example of my previous perma jobban it's this thread http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1318. You see, permanent jobban will be applied if I killed/destroyed/tortured AI or a cyborg or any other human. At my previous jobban I have blowed up medical/science at the end of the round just for FUN. - did it intetionally and I have payed for it some cost. Now I have recieved perma jobban + one week ban for making less shit in the round, because we can count only decostructing consoles and calling shuttle for attracting HOP's attention.

[Guest]

And I know that too for my 5 years experience in SS13. I was on the worst servers too, but that is not important right now.

Years playing the game doesn't matter here, 12 years, 5 years, 2 days. They are all the same to me.

I have ahelped about the powergame of AI. No response as I said.

If this is true then I have a few staff to poke at, but consider that they might have been busy trying to deal with situations to respond.

But just because you don't get a response doesn't mean that it's a go ahead.

About drone that tried to point at the AI by shocking airlocks - well that was not me and you cannot see the VV logs.

I don't doubt that, but you mentioned it in your original post so I made a comment about it.

Also VV can only be done in the current round, which is why delay sometimes at the end of round, so we can see these.

You still think that you were right in calling the shuttle?

As for if this ban was the right call? That would depend on your notes previously(which I currently don't have access to), and your attitude during the round(again haven't checked), and what you did(that we know).

I am not saying that this ban should stick, but I want to know that you're not considering Drones to be little captains rather than repair Drones.

[PoZe]

And I know that too for my 5 years experience in SS13. I was on the worst servers too, but that is not important right now.

 

As for if this ban was the right call? That would depend on your notes previously(which I currently don't have access to), and your attitude during the round(again haven't checked), and what you did(that we know).

I am not saying that this ban should stick, but I want to know that you're not considering Drones to be little captains rather than repair Drones.

I am not considering them as a little captain, therefore even captain cannot do almost everything due to his skills limit.

About notes: I had warning from you as a drone before, I had a jobban from drone by skull, which was not about breaking laws, I was bothering adminhelp.

About my attitude - You can check it in logs. As I wrote here in my post. I was Pmed by tablespoon, we had some conversation - he told me that I am not to call shuttle as a drone. Then I told him that I need to go afk for 10 minutes. When I came I have Ahelped him that I am ready to continue our conversation and after that I have recived jobban and ban.

And you better cut drone access to the communication console - because there is nothing that drones can do with it.

[Guest]

Ok I have read the logs of the round and spoken to the banning admin.

We have decided to deny this application for these reasons.

You spawned in as a drone and deconstructed the drone computers and called the shuttle within 10 minutes of spawning, using knowledge from deadchat and your previous life as a reason, this is metagaming and possible metagrudging because of the chat that was going on in deadchat.

Regardless of what people who decided to observe think, you can't take that information into the round and act on it.

Line 1178: [21:59:33]SAY: Ghost/PoZe : This AI is OP

Line 1258: [22:01:57]ACCESS: Login: poze/(maintenance drone (708)) from 24.18.54.137-1794342787 || BYOND v507

Line 1709: [22:11:59]GAME: poze/(maintenance drone (708)) has called the shuttle.

This is all the logs from your spawn to the shuttle call, that include your ckey.

Your attitude while talking to the admin was one of not caring for your actions, the drones saw it fit to try and get the AI framed by shocking doors.

Line 1770: [22:13:02]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): hell, do not call the shuttle as a drone. Obey your laws

Line 1786: [22:13:08]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): hello*

Line 1799: [22:13:19]ADMIN: PM: PoZe/(maintenance drone (708))->Tablespoon/(): I am. I can Call it, I am doing it

Line 1801: [22:13:24]SAY: Ghost/poze : kek

Line 1847: [22:14:38]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): What were your drone laws?

Line 1866: [22:15:15]ADMIN: PM: PoZe/(maintenance drone (708))->Tablespoon/(): Idk, I am dead by Powergame/metagame AI. It doesn't matter

Line 1883: [22:15:38]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): No, it saw that you called the shuttle and killed you. You are not to call the shuttle as a drone

Line 1890: [22:15:53]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): You are not to interface with any being that is not a drone

Line 1902: [22:16:35]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): also, did you dismantle your consoles? The drone consoles, that is

Line 1929: [22:17:26]ADMIN: PM: PoZe/(maintenance drone (708))->Tablespoon/(): Yes I did

Line 1932: [22:17:29]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): Why?

Line 1937: [22:17:43]ADMIN: PM: PoZe/(maintenance drone (708))->Tablespoon/(): To be correct all of them

Line 1946: [22:18:01]ADMIN: PM: PoZe/(maintenance drone (708))->Tablespoon/(): Because AI were killing drones for now reason and admins were avoinding that, no?

Line 2040: [22:19:44]SAY: Ghost/poze : Thankfully I have manage to disable all the drone consoles and reaprir communication console

Line 2051: [22:19:52]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): that does not give you the go ahead to start powergaming yourself, I was preoccupied so couldn't look into it

Line 2109: [22:21:10]ADMIN: PM: PoZe/(maintenance drone (708))->Tablespoon/(): I have ahelp from the begining when it Start to Hack everyhting. It blowed up cryo freezer, then it blow up both consoles and caps ID so.

Line 2115: [22:21:22]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): Whic is fine

Line 2118: [22:21:26]ADMIN: PM: PoZe/(maintenance drone (708))->Tablespoon/(): Apologise I need to get some food, afk 5-10 minutes

Line 3375: [22:45:14]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): hello?

Line 3998: [22:54:50]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(maintenance drone (708)): Hello. Because of your previous notes regarding abusing your role as a drone, I'm going to give you a week ban. You are already synth banned.

Line 4026: [22:55:21]ADMIN: PM: PoZe/(maintenance drone (708))->Tablespoon/(): Keeek. I doesn't have synth ban

Line 4270: [22:59:57]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(L/Tpr Mull): Well, I'm still gonna apply the week ban. I guess the note was wrong on that note or maybe it was a temp ban

Line 4298: [23:00:24]ADMIN: PM: PoZe/(L/Tpr Mull)->Tablespoon/(): It was a temporary ban. However, you should tell me why you are banning me

Line 4327: [23:00:58]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(L/Tpr Mull): For overstepping your bounds as a drone, calling the shuttle, powergaming by dismantling your consoles.

Line 4394: [23:02:03]ADMIN: PM: PoZe/(L/Tpr Mull)->Tablespoon/(): First fun is don't be an dick, which AI was. Disabling console were normal due to that I had Ai's channel and they were saying that

Line 4416: [23:02:26]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(L/Tpr Mull): This is not up for debate. If you have an issue, make an unban thread.

Line 4457: [23:03:20]ADMIN: PM: Tablespoon/()->PoZe/(L/Tpr Mull): And I will be applying the ban now.

This and you said you called the shuttle to get the HoP's attention in this thread, that is trying to interfear as a drone and breaks their laws, no matter how it's put.

Drones are an RPless role, they are there to repair the station and preform upgrades.

Just like with mice, if you choose to join as a drone you run the risk of getting killed without warning if the crew sees you as a threat.

[22:07:43]SAY: Xanderdox/(Vivian) : This unit believes that it was actually, the Maintenance Drones, that are malfunctioning

[22:07:55]SAY: Xanderdox/(Vivian) : My androids caught one electrifying doors in Departures

The drones were seen as a threat.

At the start of this round you also decided to call a gamemode vote and said

[21:26:42]VOTE: Gamemode vote started by PoZe.

[21:27:06]OOC: PoZe/PoZe : Kek

[21:28:42]OOC: PoZe/PoZe : But my vote was real, 1 second before. Not that much breaking a rules

This is just being cheeky to the staff. Although this isn't related I wanted to point it out that this kind of attitude with the staff is unacceptable.

Application Denied, you are free to try again at a later date.