Frances Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Going off of what you said, it'd be just equally meta to assume everybody would react receptively, no? The final choice on how to handle a situation should be left to the player/character, not to a rulebook that states all cases should be handled like X. Anyway, antags being non-canon is sorta negated by the fact that Techno was also an antag. I don't know exactly what he knew, but if he knew you were an antagonist and had believable reason to suspect you were willing to sell him out, I don't see his actions as being uncalled.
Jboy2000000 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Posted August 21, 2015 Its reasonable to believe that pointing a giant shotgun at someone would make them rethink fighting back, so no, its not metagaming, its IC logic. What reasonable reason would he have to believe Id sell him out? He brought the shotgun to the bathroom before I did ANYTHING. He was obviously planning to kill me before I did anything at all, because he would had to go to where ever the shotgun was hidden, go back to where I last was, and then kill me. And he had it ALL ready less than a minute after I said my one and only thing over the radio. And the ONLY reason he knew I was an antag was because we both knew the syndicate code phrases, so we were obviously both RPing to be syndicate agents. What believable reason would he have to think I would sell him out, if we were both working for the same people? If he WASN'T a syndicate agent, then he meta'ed know the syndi code phrases, and if he was playing a syndie agent, then his "believable reason" falls apart even further than what it was from the point above.
Frances Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 An antagonist trying to fight back while being held at gunpoint is only one example of how things could've gone wrong (and really, how often do you see it in movies?) You could've also pretended to play along, then sold him out or disposed of him when he no longer had you at gunpoint. There's a lot of ways you could've made his life hell, and I don't think he should have been contractually obligated to play along with your character just to keep them alive. And the ONLY reason he knew I was an antag was because we both knew the syndicate code phrases, so we were obviously both RPing to be syndicate agents. What believable reason would he have to think I would sell him out, if we were both working for the same people? If he WASN'T a syndicate agent, then he meta'ed know the syndi code phrases, and if he was playing a syndie agent, then his "believable reason" falls apart even further than what it was from the point above. What about the PDA messages? I don't think it's been explained what they were in this thread yet.
Jboy2000000 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Posted August 21, 2015 The PDA MESSAGE, singular, was the code phrases, to a character that wasn't him. You could've also pretended to play along, then sold him out or disposed of him when he no longer had you at gunpoint. There's a lot of ways you could've made his life hell, and I don't think he should have been contractually obligated to play along with your character just to keep them alive. Let me just point out again, He was obviously planning to kill me before I did anything at all, because he would had to go to where ever the shotgun was hidden, go back to where I last was, and then kill me. And he had it ALL ready less than a minute after I said my one and only thing over the radio. He was panning and ready to kill me before I did anything. He had zero reason to believe I would sell him out, but he was already poised to kill me. An antagonist trying to fight back while being held at gunpoint is only one example of how things could've gone wrong (and really, how often do you see it in movies?) Those are movies. This is a heavy RP server where people are supposed to act with reason.
Frances Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Alright. If the only interactions you've had with Techno's char were you catching him committing a crime, then him finding out antag code phrases, then that does seem sorely lacking in interaction for him to decide to outright kill you (and it's really the combination of "assumption a character he has no knowledge of would be bad" + "expeditive method" that I find problematic here). Sorry for arguing so long with you, but I had assumed the PDA messages were more... descriptive of your character, and that he had been able to gauge more about you through observation. The way you put it does sound pretty bad. Those are movies. This is a heavy RP server where people are supposed to act with reason. Lastly, though, I can't really agree with that. I don't think Heavy-RP has to be "better" or "more realistic" than movies. Like, come on, let antags have their fun and act like James Bong from time to time (I mean by being badasses, not by executing characters). Otherwise, what's even the point of having baddies?
Jboy2000000 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Posted August 21, 2015 Yeah, now that I think on it, I guess the content of the of the PDA message could have been really important, maybe should have brought what they said earlier, thats a fall on my part. And, for the last bit, the "point of antags." The primary goal of antangonists is to CONTRIBUTE TO OTHERS' ENJOYMENT.
Frances Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Doesn't mean they have to follow any arbitrary conventions. We've seen such silly things as a death borg army, so I don't think trying to wrestle a gun out of somebody's arms should be inadmissible on the basis that "we're HRP, not an action movie". The main reason why the "antags are there for others" rule is so stressed is because some people can forget really quickly that antagging carries responsibilities, but it honestly goes both ways and antags are entitled to create their own roleplay too, not only something which conforms perfectly to the expectations of whoever they happen to stumble upon. But I digress. This all isn't too relevant to the situation at hand.
Garnascus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Its been a while, i admit i partially forgot about this and for that i apologize but i haven't wasted the time. I have taken considerable time to think about this issue and frankly i have arrived at the conclusion i was in error. While i don't disagree with some of my earlier statements about some people getting screwed over because of the nature of this game i do still think we all have a responsibility to at least attempt SOME form of fairness to our fellow players. I focused on what i believed to be a situation in which techno was caught between a rock and a hard place but in reality and from the PDA message now posted i admit its sketchy at best and not a reason to blow someone's brains out without any RP. So what should i have? well as was stated techno IS on thin ice as he was recently unbanned from antag roles but i admit im hesitant to put forth for a perma ban considering i acted in error here and i dont know if im confortable with such a heavy sentence being passed when he did his best to get you cloned. Make no mistake that while i don't believe a perma-antag ban would be appropriate i also don't think a slap on the wrist would do any good either, techno knows whats expected of antags by now ( or he should, no excuses) and this type of behavior is frankly unnacceptable even if he did get the player cloned quickly. At the very least i should have attempted to communicate the topic in msay with my fellow moderators/admins something all of us almost always do but like i said, i screwed up here.
Jboy2000000 Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 I have to admit, Im fairly impressed to see a staff member admit they're wrong, but that does mean, well, you were wrong. I didn't make this thread with the intent of getting Garn taken off the mod roster (which it seems I may have since his little blue bar thing is normal) it was more to point out he did make an error of judgment, and didn't communicate as much as he should, being pointed out of the first reply here by Garn himself, and above as Garn didn't even know what the PDA message said, and that one message being the hinge on Techno's entire excuse, meaning he didn't ask as much as he probably should have on that end as well.
Guest Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I didn't make this thread with the intent of getting Garn taken off the mod roster (which it seems I may have since his little blue bar thing is normal) Garn's current position is 'trial moderator' they don't get the server mod rank/title until becoming a full server mod
Guest Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 As this thread hasn't had any responses in the last couple of weeks I'm going to assume it's resolved unless anyone involved has anything to say about it it will be locked in 24 hours.
Guest Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 As this thread hasn't had any responses in the last couple of weeks I'm going to assume it's resolved unless anyone involved has anything to say about it it will be locked in 24 hours.
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