Tainavaa Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 BYOND Key: Tainavaa Player Byond Key: Prospekt1559 Staff involved: Sound Scopes Reason for complaint: Gank Approximate Date/Time: ~10:10 AM UTC-05:00 The Rules Only escalate conflict in a realistic manner.Some characters might overreact, but you would not realistically go berserk or attempt to kill someone if they stole your prized pen, for instance. The primary goal of antagonists is to CONTRIBUTE TO OTHERS' ENJOYMENT.Be creative when coming up with objectives, and try to do things which will be fun for others, not only yourself. Only resort to killing if it makes sense.Randomly killing someone because you're a traitor will get you removed right quick. However, in certain situations, murder can serve as a tool, if none other applicable. If you're uncertain, ask for guidance via adminhelps. No ganking.While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. Collateral damage is acceptable within reason, but this means you must use common sense, and avoiding creating scenarios with a lot of potential for collateral (setting bombs in high-traffic areas, etc.) The Story Fortuna tells Tina about things being drawn in the RD's office. Tina checks it out. Tina dislikes what she sees. Tina talks to Jeffrey about it. Jeffrey deflects the questions, gives excuses, and generally shuts Tina down about any hint of a cult existing or anything is happening besides him cutting himself and writing words. These are things he has been saying over the general radio, has told Tina over the command frequency, and said in Tina's face with Fortune nearby. Tina is disgusted, and expresses it. Tina wants to leave. Tina gets blinded by Jeffrey. Jeffrey proceeds to shoot Tina in the head four times. Why Jeffrey shoots Tina Tina has pointed out they are not simply drawings, but words. Jeffrey suspects Tina of suspecting he is in a cult. Why this breaks the rules Conflict was not escalated in a realistic manner. Resorted to killing when there was no purpose or higher goal. "She suspected me" is an excuse, as Fortune is present and is now eye witness not to just self harm and decorating the floor, but to murder. The purpose of murder under the guise of "She suspected me" should then, logically, be to eliminate witnesses that might hinder their progress so they may be free to do as they please. This is not the case as now instead of Tina walking away with a distaste and possible suspicion of his cult activity despite being completely shut down and given no room to peek into the world of the cult, Fortune is now an eye-witness to murder and makes Jeffrey public enemy number one and can no longer do as he pleases or anything at all that isn't try to get away from security. This is an excuse, not a reason. There was no purpose, there was no goal. [*]Gank The primary motivator of this complaint. Scound Scopes tells me that he did provide RP. To what extent? To the extent that I am completely blown off and shut down to anything antagonistic to the point where I just give up? Sure. It was short. Sweet. And lead nowhere. ADDENDUM: "She was suspicious" If Tina was suspicious, then so was everyone else because they were privy to the information Tina then had. Security would have learned nothing by letting Tina go. Security was already actively working against Jeffrey. Everyone in security is then a viable kill target. He did not take any opportunity against them. What this tells me as a player When someone suspects you of thing in any slightest way, it is okay to kill. EXAMPLE #1: Chaplain sees your rune. "I don't like thing. Thing is bad." It is now okay and completely within the rules to murder the chaplain even if he were say, doing a service in front of others in the chaplain. After all, he is suspicious. EXAMPLE #2: Someone sees you put a camo-projector or [insert overt antag item here]. It is now okay and completely within the rules to murder said person. Even in front of others. After all, he is suspicious. [*]It does not matter what RP happens between you and your target before you kill them. If it's RP, it's RP and they are now a viable target for murder.[*]Show no emotion or express a dislike to anyone or anything they do. If they happen to be an antagonist, expect to be murdered. How this affects the server It promotes powergaming, as everyone knows they're just going to do die otherwise. It promotes metagaming, as everyone knows that letting the antagonist know you're suspicious will lead to you getting murdered. It is better to not RP with the antag and stay alive to RP with someone else than RP something irrelevant with the antag and die. This does not mean Tina actually was suspicious, but that is irrelevant. We are assuming suspicion for the sake of rhetoric and rules. Frequently asked etc. etc. 1. But Tina! Do you expect a monologue before dying? Don't give me that shit, I play a character that RP's active combat scenarios as a non-antag as an antag. I don't expect more talking, I expect momentum; I expect relevant RP, and I expect logic in deciding to murder. This is the second instance of death I would consider gank. 2. But Tina! He DID talk to you beforehand! A total of less than a minute dialogue that showed nothing, hinted toward nothing, and has given me nothing to do after. Maybe go tell Security what he's already told people over comms or something they can observe themselves by taking a glance at the room he openly admitted to leaving in the medbay or his office. Entirely irrelevant bullshit that built zero momentum and ultimately left me with the IC decision of sitting in the medbay lobby again, and the OOC decision of trying to interact with other cultists to get in on that antag action. Great, so someone can point out that I'm holding the suspicious black and red toolbox. I tell them I brought it from home. I can now str8 murk them. Thanks. EDIT: Note that I invite anyone to come out and defend his decision, rather than Prospekt. I know he thinks what he did is fine. I want something done about it. I want my points refuted, and I want to be proven wrong. Most specifically, Sound Scopes. Do you think irrelevant RP proceeded by pointless murder is okay? I want these questions answered because if it's okay, as soon as the chaplain doesn't like thing then I know it's within the rules to get my homies, get some gats, and get in a lo-lo 'cause we finna ride up on the chapel to bust a cap in his ass. That's okay? That's RP?
Tainavaa Posted September 15, 2015 Author Posted September 15, 2015 BYOND Key: Tainavaa Player Byond Key: Prospekt1559 Staff involved: Sound Scopes Reason for complaint: Gank Approximate Date/Time: ~10:10 AM UTC-05:00 The Rules Only escalate conflict in a realistic manner.Some characters might overreact, but you would not realistically go berserk or attempt to kill someone if they stole your prized pen, for instance. The primary goal of antagonists is to CONTRIBUTE TO OTHERS' ENJOYMENT.Be creative when coming up with objectives, and try to do things which will be fun for others, not only yourself. Only resort to killing if it makes sense.Randomly killing someone because you're a traitor will get you removed right quick. However, in certain situations, murder can serve as a tool, if none other applicable. If you're uncertain, ask for guidance via adminhelps. No ganking.While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. Collateral damage is acceptable within reason, but this means you must use common sense, and avoiding creating scenarios with a lot of potential for collateral (setting bombs in high-traffic areas, etc.) The Story Fortuna tells Tina about things being drawn in the RD's office. Tina checks it out. Tina dislikes what she sees. Tina talks to Jeffrey about it. Jeffrey deflects the questions, gives excuses, and generally shuts Tina down about any hint of a cult existing or anything is happening besides him cutting himself and writing words. These are things he has been saying over the general radio, has told Tina over the command frequency, and said in Tina's face with Fortune nearby. Tina is disgusted, and expresses it. Tina wants to leave. Tina gets blinded by Jeffrey. Jeffrey proceeds to shoot Tina in the head four times. Why Jeffrey shoots Tina Tina has pointed out they are not simply drawings, but words. Jeffrey suspects Tina of suspecting he is in a cult. Why this breaks the rules Conflict was not escalated in a realistic manner. Resorted to killing when there was no purpose or higher goal. "She suspected me" is an excuse, as Fortune is present and is now eye witness not to just self harm and decorating the floor, but to murder. The purpose of murder under the guise of "She suspected me" should then, logically, be to eliminate witnesses that might hinder their progress so they may be free to do as they please. This is not the case as now instead of Tina walking away with a distaste and possible suspicion of his cult activity despite being completely shut down and given no room to peek into the world of the cult, Fortune is now an eye-witness to murder and makes Jeffrey public enemy number one and can no longer do as he pleases or anything at all that isn't try to get away from security. This is an excuse, not a reason. There was no purpose, there was no goal. [*]Gank The primary motivator of this complaint. Scound Scopes tells me that he did provide RP. To what extent? To the extent that I am completely blown off and shut down to anything antagonistic to the point where I just give up? Sure. It was short. Sweet. And lead nowhere. ADDENDUM: "She was suspicious" If Tina was suspicious, then so was everyone else because they were privy to the information Tina then had. Security would have learned nothing by letting Tina go. Security was already actively working against Jeffrey. Everyone in security is then a viable kill target. He did not take any opportunity against them. What this tells me as a player When someone suspects you of thing in any slightest way, it is okay to kill. EXAMPLE #1: Chaplain sees your rune. "I don't like thing. Thing is bad." It is now okay and completely within the rules to murder the chaplain even if he were say, doing a service in front of others in the chaplain. After all, he is suspicious. EXAMPLE #2: Someone sees you put a camo-projector or [insert overt antag item here]. It is now okay and completely within the rules to murder said person. Even in front of others. After all, he is suspicious. [*]It does not matter what RP happens between you and your target before you kill them. If it's RP, it's RP and they are now a viable target for murder.[*]Show no emotion or express a dislike to anyone or anything they do. If they happen to be an antagonist, expect to be murdered. How this affects the server It promotes powergaming, as everyone knows they're just going to do die otherwise. It promotes metagaming, as everyone knows that letting the antagonist know you're suspicious will lead to you getting murdered. It is better to not RP with the antag and stay alive to RP with someone else than RP something irrelevant with the antag and die. This does not mean Tina actually was suspicious, but that is irrelevant. We are assuming suspicion for the sake of rhetoric and rules. Frequently asked etc. etc. 1. But Tina! Do you expect a monologue before dying? Don't give me that shit, I play a character that RP's active combat scenarios as a non-antag as an antag. I don't expect more talking, I expect momentum; I expect relevant RP, and I expect logic in deciding to murder. This is the second instance of death I would consider gank. 2. But Tina! He DID talk to you beforehand! A total of less than a minute dialogue that showed nothing, hinted toward nothing, and has given me nothing to do after. Maybe go tell Security what he's already told people over comms or something they can observe themselves by taking a glance at the room he openly admitted to leaving in the medbay or his office. Entirely irrelevant bullshit that built zero momentum and ultimately left me with the IC decision of sitting in the medbay lobby again, and the OOC decision of trying to interact with other cultists to get in on that antag action. Great, so someone can point out that I'm holding the suspicious black and red toolbox. I tell them I brought it from home. I can now str8 murk them. Thanks. EDIT: Note that I invite anyone to come out and defend his decision, rather than Prospekt. I know he thinks what he did is fine. I want something done about it. I want my points refuted, and I want to be proven wrong. Most specifically, Sound Scopes. Do you think irrelevant RP proceeded by pointless murder is okay? I want these questions answered because if it's okay, as soon as the chaplain doesn't like thing then I know it's within the rules to get my homies, get some gats, and get in a lo-lo 'cause we finna ride up on the chapel to bust a cap in his ass. That's okay? That's RP?
Dreamix Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 I would like to note Prospekt's OOC behavior, after ganking Technokat's character (after getting a permission from the staff, which seems ridiculous for me) on 2015-09-14 (I started loggin on 7 25 pm). John Gaines was played by Prospekt. https://gyazo.com/cbc34c6a82172c6a17cb7f813aab4811 https://gyazo.com/b20312551d8df2c0f28e47c4944639a2 https://gyazo.com/e7d48ad3c401788ddf6c6ced047008e3 Just "butthurting" in deathchat, one could say. Arguing, insulting Techno over him not really doing anything. Being overly-defensive, especially this: https://gyazo.com/b37ea8778c5c7051d97e12c0e2c787ce Today's round, log 2015-09-15 (5 55 pm). Epsilion was played by Prospekt. I don't know the context, as I late-joined. https://gyazo.com/67cf8c31c287dd29b46721d095fdfda0 - Breaking the Looc ban, arguing with Techno. https://gyazo.com/8b6c6e45acfde60ccbe61539e4367560 - This, and the next one. https://gyazo.com/60d0b8ed260590c813dd72f80e8f5aa9 - This, and the upper one, insulting my character, after I told him to not insult the detainee. Also, breaking the character, "robo-dick", immature. Got free five minutes, so I used my logs. Don't shout at me.
Dreamix Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 I would like to note Prospekt's OOC behavior, after ganking Technokat's character (after getting a permission from the staff, which seems ridiculous for me) on 2015-09-14 (I started loggin on 7 25 pm). John Gaines was played by Prospekt. https://gyazo.com/cbc34c6a82172c6a17cb7f813aab4811 https://gyazo.com/b20312551d8df2c0f28e47c4944639a2 https://gyazo.com/e7d48ad3c401788ddf6c6ced047008e3 Just "butthurting" in deathchat, one could say. Arguing, insulting Techno over him not really doing anything. Being overly-defensive, especially this: https://gyazo.com/b37ea8778c5c7051d97e12c0e2c787ce Today's round, log 2015-09-15 (5 55 pm). Epsilion was played by Prospekt. I don't know the context, as I late-joined. https://gyazo.com/67cf8c31c287dd29b46721d095fdfda0 - Breaking the Looc ban, arguing with Techno. https://gyazo.com/8b6c6e45acfde60ccbe61539e4367560 - This, and the next one. https://gyazo.com/60d0b8ed260590c813dd72f80e8f5aa9 - This, and the upper one, insulting my character, after I told him to not insult the detainee. Also, breaking the character, "robo-dick", immature. Got free five minutes, so I used my logs. Don't shout at me.
TechnoKat Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 I would like to note Prospekt's OOC behavior, after ganking Technokat's character (after getting a permission from the staff, which seems ridiculous for me) on 2015-09-14 (I started loggin on 7 25 pm). John Gaines was played by Prospekt.https://gyazo.com/cbc34c6a82172c6a17cb7f813aab4811 https://gyazo.com/b20312551d8df2c0f28e47c4944639a2 https://gyazo.com/e7d48ad3c401788ddf6c6ced047008e3 Just "butthurting" in deathchat, one could say. Arguing, insulting Techno over him not really doing anything. Being overly-defensive, especially this: https://gyazo.com/b37ea8778c5c7051d97e12c0e2c787ce Today's round, log 2015-09-15 (5 55 pm). Epsilion was played by Prospekt. I don't know the context, as I late-joined. https://gyazo.com/67cf8c31c287dd29b46721d095fdfda0 - Breaking the Looc ban, arguing with Techno. https://gyazo.com/8b6c6e45acfde60ccbe61539e4367560 - This, and the next one. https://gyazo.com/60d0b8ed260590c813dd72f80e8f5aa9 - This, and the upper one, insulting my character, after I told him to not insult the detainee. Also, breaking the character, "robo-dick", immature. Got free five minutes, so I used my logs. Don't shout at me. I really appreciate the effort you put in this, Prospekt's been fine until that revolver incident with me being away from my computer. I thought I might make a complaint, but I also thought we all calmed down, but it didn't turn out how I expected. I really dislike making complaints, ahelp is usually best thing for now. As again, cheers, Dreamix. Just to put in if Prospekt comes defending: all the previous antag rounds with him, he's always been looking to take a player out of round, whatever it is, an assistant being taken out of wheelchair and being thrown to disposals(happened once), etc. Sure, fun, but for shits and giggles, your personal fun? Nty. I'd rather always have a plan B if a player is out of round.(constructs, some ghost shenanigans, cloning).
TechnoKat Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 I would like to note Prospekt's OOC behavior, after ganking Technokat's character (after getting a permission from the staff, which seems ridiculous for me) on 2015-09-14 (I started loggin on 7 25 pm). John Gaines was played by Prospekt.https://gyazo.com/cbc34c6a82172c6a17cb7f813aab4811 https://gyazo.com/b20312551d8df2c0f28e47c4944639a2 https://gyazo.com/e7d48ad3c401788ddf6c6ced047008e3 Just "butthurting" in deathchat, one could say. Arguing, insulting Techno over him not really doing anything. Being overly-defensive, especially this: https://gyazo.com/b37ea8778c5c7051d97e12c0e2c787ce Today's round, log 2015-09-15 (5 55 pm). Epsilion was played by Prospekt. I don't know the context, as I late-joined. https://gyazo.com/67cf8c31c287dd29b46721d095fdfda0 - Breaking the Looc ban, arguing with Techno. https://gyazo.com/8b6c6e45acfde60ccbe61539e4367560 - This, and the next one. https://gyazo.com/60d0b8ed260590c813dd72f80e8f5aa9 - This, and the upper one, insulting my character, after I told him to not insult the detainee. Also, breaking the character, "robo-dick", immature. Got free five minutes, so I used my logs. Don't shout at me. I really appreciate the effort you put in this, Prospekt's been fine until that revolver incident with me being away from my computer. I thought I might make a complaint, but I also thought we all calmed down, but it didn't turn out how I expected. I really dislike making complaints, ahelp is usually best thing for now. As again, cheers, Dreamix. Just to put in if Prospekt comes defending: all the previous antag rounds with him, he's always been looking to take a player out of round, whatever it is, an assistant being taken out of wheelchair and being thrown to disposals(happened once), etc. Sure, fun, but for shits and giggles, your personal fun? Nty. I'd rather always have a plan B if a player is out of round.(constructs, some ghost shenanigans, cloning).
swat43 Posted September 16, 2015 Posted September 16, 2015 Fortune player here. I.. don't even know where to start. This is the second time, i felt bad as to how prospekt took himself as an cultist antag, and pulled all of these crimes which were rather hideous in my opinion, and left me with a bad taste in the mouth. As Techno stated the time where he pulled the assistant and threw him in the disposal, from one part, i understand why he did that, which was to deny the assitant completely from being made into an AI, but was that really necesary? He was part of the cultists and he already had multiple tools at his disposal to take this approach differently. He could have taken the assistant and be assimilated to the nar'sies cause, but nope, disposal throwing it is. Even now i don't know his true motive on that moment, so i am not saying facts, but assumptions. Second time, as an RD cultists, where me and Tina was at RnD, after i notified about RD's office having blood runes on the floor, and made me worried, we confronted him, and asked him what the hell man, why are you doing these wierd stuff, and the whole time, yes he said "i am just an emotional guy, wanted to cut myself etc" and kept it in small dialogues, and the whole time, after that, with no rp element, just blatantly blinded us, took out the protopistol and gunned down Tina, while i had the chance to escape and call for security. The whole situation could have went more interesting and better for both sides, but hey, CMO got killed, RD captured, cult stopped on cold feet, again, why? Because of bad Antag playing. Now, i am of course not blaming prospekt because he's robust/unrobust, but more like, he didn't cared to stop, and think for a moment the aftermath of his actions, that may have happened if he did something wrong. also wish to quote what Tai wrote. Randomly killing someone because you're a traitor will get you removed right quick. However, in certain situations, murder can serve as a tool, if none other applicable. If you're uncertain, ask for guidance via adminhelps. One of the reasons why i also stopped playing as antag, because i hate risks, and i dont want to blatantly or by mistake remove players from game and atleast ask for admins to clear up my antag role. Anyway, i am done here for now, i really need sleep before i talk more.
swat43 Posted September 16, 2015 Posted September 16, 2015 Fortune player here. I.. don't even know where to start. This is the second time, i felt bad as to how prospekt took himself as an cultist antag, and pulled all of these crimes which were rather hideous in my opinion, and left me with a bad taste in the mouth. As Techno stated the time where he pulled the assistant and threw him in the disposal, from one part, i understand why he did that, which was to deny the assitant completely from being made into an AI, but was that really necesary? He was part of the cultists and he already had multiple tools at his disposal to take this approach differently. He could have taken the assistant and be assimilated to the nar'sies cause, but nope, disposal throwing it is. Even now i don't know his true motive on that moment, so i am not saying facts, but assumptions. Second time, as an RD cultists, where me and Tina was at RnD, after i notified about RD's office having blood runes on the floor, and made me worried, we confronted him, and asked him what the hell man, why are you doing these wierd stuff, and the whole time, yes he said "i am just an emotional guy, wanted to cut myself etc" and kept it in small dialogues, and the whole time, after that, with no rp element, just blatantly blinded us, took out the protopistol and gunned down Tina, while i had the chance to escape and call for security. The whole situation could have went more interesting and better for both sides, but hey, CMO got killed, RD captured, cult stopped on cold feet, again, why? Because of bad Antag playing. Now, i am of course not blaming prospekt because he's robust/unrobust, but more like, he didn't cared to stop, and think for a moment the aftermath of his actions, that may have happened if he did something wrong. also wish to quote what Tai wrote. Randomly killing someone because you're a traitor will get you removed right quick. However, in certain situations, murder can serve as a tool, if none other applicable. If you're uncertain, ask for guidance via adminhelps. One of the reasons why i also stopped playing as antag, because i hate risks, and i dont want to blatantly or by mistake remove players from game and atleast ask for admins to clear up my antag role. Anyway, i am done here for now, i really need sleep before i talk more.
Shadow Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 The player in question has been inactive since this event. However, I'll leave this thread open for another week before marking it as inactive. The player in question will be informed about the complaint as soon as staff sees them on the server.
Tainavaa Posted October 4, 2015 Author Posted October 4, 2015 Alright, he hasn't been on in fivever so I guess it's safe to mark this as inactive until he's seen again.
Shadow Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Locking and archiving. If the player in question shows up again the complaint will be re-opened.
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