Cargo The Forgotten department

[Madpredator]

Hello guys. Im making this topic to show you and all the crew, how much potential does cargo have and why its not currently used. Note: This topic was made for suggestions purposes not to criticize.

CARGO

 

Cargo called my attention the first time i saw it. They order equipment and help to keep the station running. They also deliver crates and make people fill lots of paperwork. Seems really cool to supply a functional spaceship station. But that isnt true, lets talk about why the station doesnt really need cargo

I have been writing up which were the most ordered items, and which werent ordered at all. My final conclusion was that cargo is just like i said before. A little "help" but sadly they are not really necesary. Lets put it this way:

A station without Security would be chaos. I cant imagine a station without security, people breaking the space law and not getting punished, a station without medical would not live too long. No need to explain this. Without atmos we would probably be dead because of a little breach in the station, etc etc.

And... Cargo... Well... Cargo doesnt make a real difference in the station. It just help the other department SOMETIMES.

 

cargo's way to go to the central of the station. Needs to make an unecesary huge turn around

 

Lets analyze the most frequently requests from cargo:

- Monkey crates: This is a number one. Cheffs order this to have more meat. But most of the times they are used with bad purposes, for example making a huge amount of slimes ending in slimes over all the station.

- RIPLEY APLU: Robotic needs it to make ripleys, sometimes to be send to mining other to make their own experiments

- Non-Human esterile gloves: This is one of the crates that i love requesting because they really need this and it doesnt have bad side-effects and helps 100% other species.

- Pizzas: Because pizzas

And well that is it. There is not much more, maybe if you play 20 shifts you can get ordered one item which isnt on the list but that rarely happens.

But wait... You mean, cargo doesnt help other deparments? What about security? Or medical or atmos or engineering?

 

Captain noticing cargo doesnt have bio suits with a biohazard going on

 

Well sometimes engineering orders an inflatable barrer crate, but thats pretty much it. Security doesnt need cargo at all, they have an armory with tons of equipment. Medical doesnt need more medic equipment, they have too much already.

Plus when an emergency occurs cargo cant really help. And in extended shifts its not needed that much. Most of the times cargo techs go ssd or stay at the desk for 2 hours of shift. With only 2 requests in the whole shift. And thats when i can see there is a real problem going on.

POINTS? Points arent necesary, there is never, i mean NEVER a shortage of points because of the few requests. That makes cargo techs not to have to decide or priorize equipment and ends in less fun/rp.

 

Beautiful crates

 

Some of you will say:

"but cargo is already too powerful they can order lots of weapons and kill everyone !!!"

Well yeah, but thats not my point. I wouldnt care if they removed some lethal stuff and change for more usefull stuff like radiation suits or Blood packs for medic. The point is: its absurd you can make flamethrowers, ordering from the cargo console but you cant order harmless useful equipment

CONCLUSION:

Cargo needs to improve, get some help. And not be the forgotten department that no one wants to play. Other departments seems to always have improvement changes when cargo needs more attention.

WE NEED IDEAS.

- Adding equipment that already exists on the station but improved (For example better welding tools without needing to hack the autolathe)

- Adding useful crates to help the station in emergency situations. (Bio suits are a must)

- Adding useful crates that ONLY cargo can order that foments the RP and communication with cargo and heads

- Adding useless luxury crates for people to basicaly deny them but make cargo techs busy with something

And also some that others may not agree

- Removing some equipment of other deparments to make cargo more needed

 

 

CURRENTLY CRATES Ideas

"Piano Kit" (by Voyd2000)

"Bio suits" (by madpredator)

"Blood packs" (by madpredator)

"fully-loaded CSI kits" (by 1138)

"Clown clothes" (for clown fans)

"Gift crate" (contain random cute item to gift someone)

"Robotics reapir kit" ( by Jboy2000000)

"Robotics mass production crate"( by Jboy2000000)

"acid for circuit imprinters chem" ( by Jboy2000000)

 

NOTE: this topic will be edited and modified in the future, any suggestion or idea feel free to post it

Edited October 25, 2015 by Guest

[Voyd2000]

As a cargo bum I agree sometimes you can go a whole shift with one or two orders and that's it, job done, When shit hits the fan others tend to step up and do the job for you. But I find my fun and most of it has to do with paperwork, or trying to guess what people want when they walk into the lobby.

The job can be underutilized but making the crew have to use it more out of necessity seems like a bad idea, as often the job can go unstaffed, Cargo could be handled by a borg, The number of cargo techs + a QM can quickly turn into a game of too many cooks as the tasks required even with paperwork can be handled by one person doing the job role.

In the end I don't think there is much you can do about said department other than find your own fun with it, I do have a suggestion for something crew should be able to order, a Piano kit, Have it come in bits, make an engineer build it and now the crew has a piano to play.

[Jboy2000000]

Oh cargo, I remember fondly my days when I played cargo and had fun. That was for like, what, a month? Yeah, playing cargo is borning 99% of the time. Cargo is fun to play for about a mouth in my case, and then you get bored of the same few orders of roboticists coming for boards, scientists coming in to order metal and glass, botanists ordering bees, and then for the rest of the shift theres nothing to do, but the second you leave the entire station yells at your for being literally Hitler because you dared leave your post for two seconds. Your worse than Mega-Hitler as well if you audacity to deny someone's order too, god forbid your botanist doesn't get their deadly bees that ultimately escape and become a nuisance to the entire station, or don't let engineering get slithered on two-three alcohol crates. No, then they complain about you, and the second and HoP or captain shows up, they bitch and moan until your not there to deny their orders anymore.

[jackfractal]

The problem with cargo is a deep design issue. Basically, cargo is a supply part of a pipeline, but due to the nature of SS13 as a game, you can't guarantee that cargo is going to be staffed. They might go SSD, they might decide to get drunk at the bar, they might just decide to hold extinguisher races on the cargo platform instead of ordering anything.

So because they can't be relied upon, people have avoided putting vital supplies in cargo. Imagine if security started with no armor or weaponry, none of the vending machines were stocked, there were no seeds in botany, engineering started without the particle accelerator, chemistry didn't run off of creating matter through magic and instead required actual bottles of chemicals, and the entire station, all departments, started with no space suits.

Suddenly, wow, cargo is hugely important, as are the disposition of those precious precious cargo points. Mining becomes really important as well, because digging a bunch of plasma quickly means the difference between having to make the choice between a well stocked armory, a functioning medbay, or power by the thirty minute mark.

This doesn't work though. There's no guarantee that cargo will exist round to round, so nobody is willing to make them vital to the functioning of another department. As time goes on, they have drifted further and further from relevance as people make the individual departments more and more self sufficient.

What's the point of a 'supply' part of a pipeline if there's no demand? On the other hand, how can you enforce a demand when there's no guarantee that there'll be any supply?

As far as cargo goes, I'm almost at the point where we should just automate the whole thing and forget about it, or else go with something more drastic to make people interact with them.

[Jboy2000000]

How about we add some stuff to cargo that isn't vital, and can be made/found on station, and just make cargo an alternative source of them. Like 2x large beakers of acid for circuit imprinters so people don't have to bother chem, or don't have chem, a "robotics reapir kit" with one tube of nanopaste, two cable coils, and a welder, a "robotics mass production crate" with buckets, empty medkits, and health scanners. Those are just a few off the top of my head.

[Madpredator]

The problem with cargo is a deep design issue. Basically, cargo is a supply part of a pipeline, but due to the nature of SS13 as a game, you can't guarantee that cargo is going to be staffed. They might go SSD, they might decide to get drunk at the bar, they might just decide to hold extinguisher races on the cargo platform instead of ordering anything.

So because they can't be relied upon, people have avoided putting vital supplies in cargo. Imagine if security started with no armor or weaponry, none of the vending machines were stocked, there were no seeds in botany, engineering started without the particle accelerator, chemistry didn't run off of creating matter through magic and instead required actual bottles of chemicals, and the entire station, all departments, started with no space suits.

Suddenly, wow, cargo is hugely important, as are the disposition of those precious precious cargo points. Mining becomes really important as well, because digging a bunch of plasma quickly means the difference between having to make the choice between a well stocked armory, a functioning medbay, or power by the thirty minute mark.

This doesn't work though. There's no guarantee that cargo will exist round to round, so nobody is willing to make them vital to the functioning of another department. As time goes on, they have drifted further and further from relevance as people make the individual departments more and more self sufficient.

What's the point of a 'supply' part of a pipeline if there's no demand? On the other hand, how can you enforce a demand when there's no guarantee that there'll be any supply?

As far as cargo goes, I'm almost at the point where we should just automate the whole thing and forget about it, or else go with something more drastic to make people interact with them.

 

I see your point and im agree with some of your ideas. Removing all equipment of other departments would be crazy. But there is no need to be so extremist. Im pretty sure most of the cargo techs you say that go drunk and dont do their job its because they dont have anything to do at their work place, been waiting for hours, and actually dont feel the station would give a shit about them if they do their job or not.

Cargo actually has a head of staff that is HOP so in a serious server like this where we encourage roleplay the hop should make sure with QM they are doing well their jobs and if not, take their places.

 

How about we add some stuff to cargo that isn't vital, and can be made/found on station, and just make cargo an alternative source of them. Like 2x large beakers of acid for circuit imprinters so people don't have to bother chem, or don't have chem, a "robotics reapir kit" with one tube of nanopaste, two cable coils, and a welder, a "robotics mass production crate" with buckets, empty medkits, and health scanners. Those are just a few off the top of my head.

 

I love that idea. Its like ordering pizza when there is no cheff

We need people to actually notice if Cargo did well in a shift or not. Because at the moment mining could gather 1000 minerals, cargo have 1000 points, answered fast their requests and there would be no diference on the station. There is not a real impact.. maybe none.

[jackfractal]

I did not mean to imply that cargo was unusually difficult to staff well. SS13 just doesn't guarantee people in every position, so the design tends to swing heavily toward independence rather than interconnections. This is also a problem for mining, chemistry, botany, and science.

[Guest]

>piano kit

No. Not ever.

But yeah, there are a lot of things in cargo that require updating with a lot of the unique features and situations we have here. Wouldn't hurt to redistribute some of the power of what cargo can and can't order.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why don't we turn cargo into a supermarket? Integrating cash registered as non-complex ID scanners and some way to stock shelves so people can't easily steal shit, you could easily turn cargo into a place that makes money for NT by selling stuff to the crew.

[Jboy2000000]

Like commissaries in military bases? I actually like that idea.

[Guest]

I agree that cargo is problematic in this case, since you can't really help if there is no demand. But I have few suggestions:

Add "End goals" to cargo - Just like science can max out on stuff, cargo could benifit having certain end goals. For example, add a few actually useful expensive items. IDK, special upgraded hardsuits, weapons, tools. Stuff that's trademarked and can't be produced by science. That way, conserving points would actually be a good thing. Currenty, it's the job of the QM and Cargo Techs to deliver materials, not Miner's. Make a round start quotas that cargo has to send back for a huge boost of points. For example, 500 metal, 100 gold, etc.

Another idea I've had is two-way cargo functionality. Basically, make it so that cargo's job is actually to send back what station produces. For example, technology discs, mechs, paperwork briefcases, etc. It would be an export terminal, as well as import one. Then, make it so that money is deposited onto the department's bank account once they send back their shit.

The money earned for the shift can be used to compare effectiveness of the departments and cargo.

[Xelnagahunter]

Why don't we turn cargo into a supermarket? Integrating cash registered as non-complex ID scanners and some way to stock shelves so people can't easily steal shit, you could easily turn cargo into a place that makes money for NT by selling stuff to the crew.

This. we can add crates that bring in some of the non-essential items that come in a custom loadout. Those can be stocked away and when people want them they can come buy them. However I still think the primary goals of cargo should be the same. Ordering and delivery of goods.

 

I agree that cargo is problematic in this case, since you can't really help if there is no demand. But I have few suggestions:

Add "End goals" to cargo - Just like science can max out on stuff, cargo could benifit having certain end goals. For example, add a few actually useful expensive items. IDK, special upgraded hardsuits, weapons, tools. Stuff that's trademarked and can't be produced by science. That way, conserving points would actually be a good thing. Currenty, it's the job of the QM and Cargo Techs to deliver materials, not Miner's. Make a round start quotas that cargo has to send back for a huge boost of points. For example, 500 metal, 100 gold, etc.

Another idea I've had is two-way cargo functionality. Basically, make it so that cargo's job is actually to send back what station produces. For example, technology discs, mechs, paperwork briefcases, etc. It would be an export terminal, as well as import one. Then, make it so that money is deposited onto the department's bank account once they send back their shit.

The money earned for the shift can be used to compare effectiveness of the departments and cargo.

This also brings in a new level of roleplay from a job perspective. Nearly everyone will have reason to interact with cargo at this point. Love it.

[jackfractal]

It's a good suggestion, but it'll be hard to implement.

[rant]

A lot of the issues we see with Cargo and Science are based on some underlying assumptions with the way that SS13 is coded at a very low level. Creating 'actually useful' items is very challenging because most items in SS13 work like keys. Screwdrivers don't unscrew things because they have an 'unscrewing' ability, they unscrew things because each item that can interact with a screwdriver has something that specifically checks if the thing interacting with it is a screwdriver. We can't easily make an 'upgraded' screwdriver because the code for what screwdrivers do is spread out over literally 124 files.

It's the same for everything. That's why the only places where you see 'upgradable' items is in mining and weaponry, because someone specifically coded mining (the action of digging rocks) with variable efficiency in mind, and the health system is complex enough to handle a variety of weaponry.

Would it be possible to create a better screwdriver (or mousetrap)? Sure, and someone might, but they'd do that by reaching into those 124 files and modifying all of them, making the web of connections more and more complex.

I know someone will say 'but that's not what we're talking about, what about just slightly better hardsuits' and sure, ok, that's fine, but the reason we don't have interesting things to do in science is the same reason we don't have useful things in cargo. Most of the systems in the game are not setup to handle variable efficiency, which means creating better versions of objects is impossible.

And yes, this has been annoying me lately.

[/rant]

[Frances]

Most of the systems in the game are not setup to handle variable efficiency, which means creating better versions of objects is impossible.

By systems, are you speaking of gameplay systems, or code ones?

And what would be an example of an "upgraded hardsuit", relative to this issue?

[jackfractal]

It's code, not game-play. From a game-play perspective, wrenches are consistent (they wrench stuff when you click on them while they're in your hand), but from a code perspective they're 193 individual references across the code-base inside every object that can be wrenched.

Hard-suits are a bit of a special case because they only indirectly interact with other items. Their primary function is to modify how another object (the wearer) interacts with some of the other systems (damage and atmospherics). In addition, they're already setup for variable efficiency because hard-suits and soft-suits have different abilities in terms of armor, slow-down, and inventory slots. They're one of the places where we do have some flexibility.

[Jboy2000000]

If upgrades and better things are out of the question, how about we add things of RP interest to cargo? Expensive, imported, aged alcohols, ingredients to make high scale food, high scale fashion items, things like that. It'd be cool to see Richy McRich share his 2447 Jargon Chablis and caviar, while wearing the latest from Alabaster McFashion, with the other socialites on station.