RnD Lockboxes

[Filthyfrankster]

This past month has been security being scrutinized/mocked/threatened with job bans/head of staff whitelists being pulled.

Though there is a bigger threat now haunting the station, Science militia, You ever raise an eyebrow when you notice almost every sciencetist and their metabuddy running around with a protopistol in their backpack the minute an antag is confirmed or there is a suspected security threat onboard the station? You ever notice how easy it is to break into RnD, go onto the console and print up a lawbreaker due to a single scientist knowing the metasheet to getting all 10 levels then fucking off after saying their job is done?

Now that can be fixed with a simple 'PUT ALL WEAPONs AND WEAPON VARIETIES IN A LOCKBOX THAT ONLY A HEAD OF STAFF LEVEL ID SUCH AS HEAD OF SECURITY/HEAD OF PERSONAL/CAPTAIN CAN OPEN' along with paperwork being needed to be stamped by said head of staff.

I mean, I'm pretty sure the head of staff would like to know if McBluehaired scientist lady wants to max weapon research and needs to print out a stun revolver, The head of security or other heads would have to scan their ID across it.

In the long run, it prevents RnD players from handing out advanced energy guns to their metabuddies and IC friends due to 'I wanted to feel protected because security is bad' etc etc excuses, and forcing RnD to have its research wiped by the AI due to it being a pain in the ass than actually helpful when they rush weapon research.

Of course it can be emagged still, but the fact science can easily go militia and claiming it to be an IC issue due to security being bad is getting silly.

[canon35]

Yes, please. I'm tired of science hoarding weapons most rounds.

Also, don't even try to play that whole "Whenever I'm scientist I hand out weapons, lets not do this" because that's literally 1 out of 10 science players.

[Killerhurtz]

As a RD, add Research Director to the list of people that can unlock these and I approve.

Because want it or not, Weapons research is definitely a thing (both in the machine and actually trying efficiency shit by aiming them at protohumans).

But limiting the lockboxes to Captain, Head of Security and Research Director (not sure why HoP should have access) grant almost-full usefulness of the weapons (unless there IS no head) while still allowing the tech tree to progress (SIDE NOTE: mech weapons can actually raise that level too) AND allowing a much MUCH tighter control on that by the RD (which should be the major problem here - accountability is hard when all weapons are accessible)

So yes - TL;DR, add RD to the list of peeps that can open it (and add mech weapons and durand/gygax boards to that list) and I fully, 200% approve of this idea.

[Guest]

As a RD, add Research Director to the list of people that can unlock these and I approve.

Because want it or not, Weapons research is definitely a thing (both in the machine and actually trying efficiency shit by aiming them at protohumans).

But limiting the lockboxes to Captain, Head of Security and Research Director (not sure why HoP should have access) grant almost-full usefulness of the weapons (unless there IS no head) while still allowing the tech tree to progress (SIDE NOTE: mech weapons can actually raise that level too) AND allowing a much MUCH tighter control on that by the RD (which should be the major problem here - accountability is hard when all weapons are accessible)

So yes - TL;DR, add RD to the list of peeps that can open it (and add mech weapons and durand/gygax boards to that list) and I fully, 200% approve of this idea.

 

Deal.

Think I made this suggestion before, but who even organizes this subforum anyway?

[TechnoKat]

What about mechs like Gygax, Durand? They've been made during obvious nuclear rounds with no paperwork or permission at all, or even seeing the operatives. I'm tired of seeing a validhunting lesbian research director always taking security issues and ignoring the cons of his actions.

[Killerhurtz]

What about mechs like Gygax, Durand? They've been made during obvious nuclear rounds with no paperwork or permission at all, or even seeing the operatives. I'm tired of seeing a validhunting lesbian research director always taking security issues and ignoring the cons of his actions.

 

(and add mech weapons and durand/gygax boards to that list)

 

Ahead of you hun.

[Guest]

Nah.

Having weapons testing behind a captain/hos wall isn't necessary. If people want to manufacture weapons in a dire emergency, much like how cargo can blast open crates with lethals, then they should be able to do so.

Moreover, not every round has a Captain or HoS.

It's also contrived and nonsensical to have the protolathe spit out a prototype in an impenetrable case.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Guest

[Filthyfrankster]

I might consider changing a few things, like removing head of personal access to unlocking them.

My main purpose is to have loyalty implanted individuals be the ones to consider unlocking that gygax/durand/Lawgiver/ lockbox, since it's pretty high clearance shit, Even if the research director is around, if they're down to get implanted, go for it.

Having a HoS/Captain discuss to one another that opening up the lockbox packing a dangerous weapon for a possible security threat is probably not a good idea.

[Killerhurtz]

The problem is that RDs are often IPCs. IPCs, IIRC, can't get implanted (yet).

[Lady_of_Ravens]

Why, oh why, must we let the people who do shit like this ruin it for the rest of us?

[jackfractal]

I oppose this idea. The protolathe is a silly nonsensical machine, but even for a silly nonsensical machine, having it create arbitrary impenetrable lockboxes is really dumb.

Has there been a rash of protopistol wielding antag hunters? Is this something that is a persistent problem or something that has happened once or twice?

If it's not happening all the time then it would make more sense to deal with the problem players directly rather then add this mechanic, as this mechanic is deeply silly.

[Guest]

A gentle, nudging reminder that this suggestion has already been done once, but wasn't implemented. Did anything really change in the meanwhile? Not really. But here's the proof.

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1721&hilit=locbox+lockbox

[LordFowl]

Something has changed in the meanwhile; there has been a noticeable increase of scientists with hidden proto-pistols or even worse for seemingly no reason other than to validhunt. While lockboxes aren't perhaps the best way to go about it (because apparently that idea is 'silly') there definitely should be a way to mechanically control weapons research. A potential idea is allowing the RD and Captain to blacklist certain item or item categories (Preferably by a remote terminal), which means there will be no unauthorized production without the RD's approval. What this means is that without an RD/Captain there is still unlimited production (Which I still disagree with, but I've not got a good solution for that), but with an RD/Captain there can be limits imposed, and a system of control can be established.

Whether the Head of Security should have any say over this beyond strongly advising the RD or Captain to take action is debatable. An ostensible solution is for cases where RD or Captain are not available, but a security breach is to be avoided, the Head of Security could order the AI to impose these limits.

[Killerhurtz]

That could be worked in - currently, we DO have a technical means to do that (backing up Weapons data and erasing it from all consoles), but a means to say "this research is valid but locked out" and enforce it would also be very useful.

[jackfractal]

It's possible to ban weapons research now. You do it by saying, as someone with authority over science, "Weapons research is banned."

But that won't stop people from doing weapons research though!

No, it wont, but it will stop them from doing so legally, at which point it becomes a matter for the DO's.

[LordFowl]

Alternatively, a far more economic and sensible solution can be employed. I don't see what sort of roleplay this mechanic infringes on (Unless you call validhunting with your laser cannon roleplay, which is of course your prerogative.)

[jackfractal]

I'm not saying it does anything 'for roleplay'.

I think most of what happens in R&D is dumb, I've written quite a few words on why, and why it's not a good system. That being said, of all the dumb stuff that happens in that job, the dumbest by far are the lock boxes.

I also think it's kinda silly that you think merging a ridiculous patch for a flawed system from another sever is more economical then, like, just telling them not too. They're already breaking the law for bringing weaponry outside of science without a permit.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Giving lockboxes that, at worst, need to be unlocked by an RD does nothing to harm research's ability to legitimately research. The benefits of having the only only available safeguard to the science militia without raiding security far outweigh the drawbacks of not letting a scientist have a protopistol for 2 extra minutes.

[Gollee]

When Duty Officers are having to disarm the crew of half a dozen concealed plasma pistols, we have a problem.

[jackfractal]

Are duty officers having to do that? I guess I haven't understood the scale of the problem.

[Guest]

Whether the Head of Security should have any say over this beyond strongly advising the RD or Captain to take action is debatable. An ostensible solution is for cases where RD or Captain are not available, but a security breach is to be avoided, the Head of Security could order the AI to impose these limits.

 

And if said command staff doesn't exist? What then?

Pinning responsibility on phantom positions (as in, roles not currently filled in) is not going to solve the problem of players/characters CONSTANTLY producing lethal weaponry for keks and giggles.

No amount of IC rules or such is gonna stop the average player from mass producing guns anyway, emergency or not. Chances are, people aren't going to read them anyway, so what then? Do we just drop into a fetal position and try very hard not to cry about it?

The in-game mechanics need to be adjusted to prevent this sort of behavior. That is the only way one can ostensibly stop the Science Gun-Run operation, and that's by limiting who gets access to those guns in the first place.

[jackfractal]

I don't really see why science ability to create firearms is different then any of the fifty other ways to destroy the station. We don't prevent atmospherics techs from wrenching pipes without command-staff approval despite their ability to cause mass casualties with far less difficulty then a gun does.

Everyone is talking as if this is something that happens every round and is a significant gameplay balance problem. I admit I haven't played much in the last little while, has this suddenly become really common in the last... say week?

[Killerhurtz]

TL;DR yes.

Long story short, I may be partly responsible for this - but players have recently found out just how EASY it is to obtain them (and by that I mean that they know four different ways to get Weapons research started). And since we have a lot of new players lately, some of them less-than-aware of Aurora's RP levels, it results in at least one scientist, every round that isn't extended, being a walking armory.

[LordFowl]

Whether the Head of Security should have any say over this beyond strongly advising the RD or Captain to take action is debatable. An ostensible solution is for cases where RD or Captain are not available, but a security breach is to be avoided, the Head of Security could order the AI to impose these limits.

 

And if said command staff doesn't exist? What then?

Pinning responsibility on phantom positions (as in, roles not currently filled in) is not going to solve the problem of players/characters CONSTANTLY producing lethal weaponry for keks and giggles.

No amount of IC rules or such is gonna stop the average player from mass producing guns anyway, emergency or not. Chances are, people aren't going to read them anyway, so what then? Do we just drop into a fetal position and try very hard not to cry about it?

The in-game mechanics need to be adjusted to prevent this sort of behavior. That is the only way one can ostensibly stop the Science Gun-Run operation, and that's by limiting who gets access to those guns in the first place.

 

Having weapons research outright banned from the beginning of the round and having to have someone conscientiously disable the blacklist is in my opinion to extreme; the theory is that the rounds where there are available Heads of Staff or particularly autocratic AIs who disable weapons research specifically would leave the impression of caution by themself.

Either way, I ultimately think a 'blacklist monitor' is better than the lockboxes for a variety of reasons:

Firstly, it removes the 'ridiculous' lockboxes, which I think are more ridiculous because they need the individual attention of a Head of Staff for each individual lockbox.

Secondly, it provides more control for the Head of Staff over what science can print - theoretically they could blacklist whatever they wanted for whatever reason, not just weapons.

[Killerhurtz]

Then again, it still doesn't solve the issue of nubs doing it with no Heads around.

Personally, I'd have two possible solutions, after thinking for a while:

One, a whitelist instead of blacklist. There would be five consoles, total: one in the bridge, one in the Head of Security's office, on in the Warden's office (for when there's no HoS), one in the RD's office and one in the Research server room. No IDs required - just a list of crewmembers. And if said crewmember is on that list, they are allowed to print research weapons. That would give five roles the ability to change whitelist: station-bound synthetics, the Captain, the Warden, the Head of Security and the Research Director.

The other option would be a single lockboxed item being printable from the very start - an auth chip. Just like protopistols don't need assembly to have research value - all weapons produced by Research would be inert until someone with the proper authority (which needs to be present anyway because paperwork) unlocked the lockbox of an auth chip. Of course that lockbox could be emagged. And all weapons, despite being inert and not actually firing, would have full research value when deconstructed. That way, every single person could do proper Weapons research without allowing Gordon Freeman and his six clones to be possible. Possibly, to make it as accessible as before, three machines dedicated to authorization chips could be coded in and placed: Warden's office, Bridge and RD office/server room.