Staff Complaint - Aqy

[nanotoxin]

BYOND Key: Nanotoxin

Staff BYOND Key: Aqy, Xelnaga, and Doomberg if he still counts.

Reason for complaint: "I'm staff, I'm always right" mentality, I also would like to not change my character.

Evidence/logs/etc:

Moderator PM from-Aqy: Hey, we're getting a lot of a helps about you guys chucklefucking, and being extremely non-serious. I get that there's joking, but a lot of people are getting frustrated, and having a hard time roleplaying. Could you guys tone it down just a bit?

PM to-Aqy: Well, the warden was going along with it? His character thought ours were joking, but ours were serious.

PM to-Aqy: He said that he had pasta and that he was hiding it. If he had said that he didn't have any, then we would've left him.

Moderator PM from-Aqy: It's not the warden, it's other people. And yes, it may be funny to him and you, however it's becoming very very disruptive to others. If you guys wanna joke around together, that's fine, but tone it down.

PM to-Aqy: Yeah, Xelnaga had talked to us. We discussed that people are over reacting. We're seriosuly RPing.

PM to-Aqy: This is a character I plan to keep. I plan to bring him a chef. He's racist and he speaks with an old timey Italian accent.

Moderator PM from-Aqy: Running around pushing the warden over, whether he's in on it or not doesn't seem to be very serious.

PM to-Aqy: That doesn't make sense. If he's playing along with our characters RP, then why wouldn't we do as our character would do?

Moderator PM from-Aqy: Not only that, but there are multiple ahelps of you three bothering people in the bar. Either way, just tone down the ridiculousness. I get silly characters are fun, but not everyone is into being involved with it. (Nice little subject change here)

PM to-Aqy: What do the ahelps say? That the characters were obnoxious and loud? Then tell them to grow a pair. It's a character. This is the way I've made this character. They can write incident reports for this.

Moderator PM from-Aqy: That's you're saying they're "bad as osama." And there's a fine line between playing an obnoxious character, and purposefully chucklefucking, then calling it seirous roleplay because that's how the character is supposed to be. You're riding the line. I'll ask again, just tone it down a bit. If it's fun for you that's fine, but again, this is a heavy rp server. Not everyone is into what you're playing and doesn't want to be shoved into it.

PM to-Aqy: I /never/ said that they were as bad as Osama, I was calling him stereotypical arabic names. Osama, Mohamed. This is all incident report things. These people don't need to ahelp about it.

Moderator PM from-Aqy: You know full well what you're doing. I'm not asking again. And I'm not dragging this out. I said tone it down. So tone it down. End of discussion.

PM to-Aqy: I'm not toning down what is my character. Meowy was able to "Gas the catbeasts" "hang them from trees" and all the gorey details. Those who're upset by the character can A. Write a character complaint or B. Write an incident report.

Moderator PM from-Aqy: No, there's a difference between irony and completely diregarding the rules and abusing incident reports in order to justify playing a character which is not serious and has been chucklefucking, using the guise of "this is just how he is."

PM to-Aqy: Mind telling me what rule(s) was/were broken?

(15 minutes later)

Moderator PM from-Aqy: Keep the round fun for everyone. Characters must be believable, and well-rounded. And generally chucklefucking. You were merely asked to tone it down, but instead have chosen to drag this out into a deal that it doesn't need to be. You were asked to comply, if you'd rather refuse to, then further action will be taken.

PM to-Aqy: So being passionate about pasta is unbelievable? Someone telling you that they're hiding pasta and reacting negatively to that person is unbelieveable? He is a well rounded character with a back story and all. And the rule "Keep the round fun for everyone" Fun is /clearly/ subjective. One of the people we were "bothering", as you would put it, actually said that It was pretty funny. (http://prntscr.com/8xo7nk) Some people like different things, and it's not my problem who doesn't like it, because some do. If they don't, they can always leave the area, or actually role play "hey go away"

Moderator PM from-Aqy: Ahelps are not the place for arguing, you have the choice to either comply or receive punishment.

PM to-Aqy: Seeing as how I'm dead, this is a moot point.

PM to-Aqy: and ahelps are the place for defending yourself. Which is exactly what I was doing.

Moderator PM from-Aqy: The behavior is inacceptable, you were asked to tone it down, and it's expected that it will be.

PM to-Admins: I implore you to write a character complaint then. Seeing as how you're just one moderator, I would like someone with higher authority to tell me to change the basis of my character.

Your adminhelp will be tended to by Doomberg. Please allow the staff member a minute or two to type up a response.

Retired Admin PM from-Doomberg: So, I'm going to have to take this because we are extremely undermanned here.

Retired Admin PM from-Doomberg: Tl;dr: Moderators HAVE the authority to tell you to change your behaviour. If you take issue with their decision, we have a staff complaint forum for that, which I can link you.

PM to-Doomberg: Are you still able to handle these with your retired status?

Retired Admin PM from-Doomberg: Under emergency circumstances, yes, I can answer questions or handle people.

PM to-Doomberg: Where does it say that moderators can tell me to change my character? Because I had never agreed to those terms.

PM to-Doomberg: Well

PM to-Doomberg: If I was actually chucklefucking, then yes, I'd understand. But to tell an actual character to change, then no, that's ridiculous.

Retired Admin PM from-Doomberg: Er. I mean, you haven't exactly signed a contract, here. They have the authority to tell you to change an aspect of your character if it violates the believeability rule. As I said, complaints.

PM to-Doomberg: Yes, but by playing on this server, I'm agreeing to follow the rules and understand what the staff are able to do. If these people actually have a problem with the character, that is what we have the character complaint thread for.

Retired Admin PM from-Doomberg: As it stands, the currently active staff have deemed that your character or conduct is in violation of said rules, and asked that you adapt accordingly - which is within their power to do. If the admins deem this decision to be erroneous following a complaint, then you will be free to continue acting as you have been, but until that point, it's expected that you comply.

PM to-Doomberg: http://prntscr.com/8xoaky - Look, this is one of the people we had "bothered" with our "unfun" rp. They had said they had actually enjoyed it, but a racist comment had left a bad taste in their mouth.

Retired Admin PM from-Doomberg: Generally speaking, staff judgement isn't dependent on how the reporting party/victim felt about the incident. Also, I can't delay, so.

PM to-Doomberg: Well if we thought we were having fun doing it, and the people we were doing it to (bar a person or two) though it was fun, then why does it matter what the staff think? We're not here to make everyone happy with our RP, it's impossible.

 

Additional remarks: Two friends and I had joined the server with brand new characters. They had flavour text, and a back story before we signed on. We had arrived and began asking station members for various types of pasta, as my character, Oscar James, is a rather passionate pasta connoisseur, and I had planned on making him a chef later on. The character is also fairly racist an sexist. He'd loud and abrasive, so it's a great combination for trouble. I was asked to tone it down because it "wasn't fun for everyone" and because "it's not believeable". It isn't our job to make sure everyone is having fun with our RP. It's almost impossible to make everyone happy, and that's not our faults, it's because people like different things. As for it not being believeable, need I remind you of the Church of the Surprise Pizza Pack? If devotion to food is unnaceptable and unrealistic, I don't know why this religion was allowed to continue? (http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=639&hilit=pizza#p5218 Linke if anyone would like it)

All I'm hoping to come out of this, is for me to play my character with the mentality I had created him with. I realize that there was greif happening, so I realize that Aqy may not have been in the right mind set, trying to deal with that and myself, but I think the air should be cleared.

[Skull132]

Quick question, when did this take place? Gooot it, nevermind.

[Skull132]

Initial assessment. The "pushing warden over because they claimed to have pasta on them" is a silly thing to do, and if it becomes a constant, then it'll start detracting from the roleplay environment we're trying to set here, don't you think?

As for your character. if what you portrayed in your conversation is true, then I'd say you can keep him. Just, please don't make a habit out of shoving people over and craving for their pasta. (Or unless it's in a playful fashion, I guess? Though that would seem contradictory to your character? Idno.) Unless you're an antag, at which point, crave away! The reason for this single note is that everything's good in good measure, and if you have a character frothing at the mouth, standing over another man because he claimed to have pasta on him, then, I don't know, it doesn't seem too well roleplayed that they'd keep him around. Does this sound reasonable?

Now for a bit of clarification, on the "Staff are always right" bit. And this is actually on my list of shit to clarify for now and forever, so we can start here. The rule in question is this one:

All staff decisions are final.

OOC and adminhelp aren't the place to argue about our staff's decisions. If you'd like to contest a punishment, rule, or actions from a staffmember, start a discussion thread in the appropriate subsection of our forums, either Unban Requests, Staff Complaints, or General Discussion (for discussing specific rules).

The intent and purpose of the rule is very simple: admins and mods ingame can have a lot of shit going on at one time, depending on the situation, and the more things they have to respond to, the less reasonable it is to expect them to hold long discussions about complex topics. Those are the times where this rule is levied, so that a single argument wouldn't hinder the staff's capacity to deal with potentially more important issues. Of course, it is also expected that the staff member politely apologize at that point, and quickly explain the circumstances and in what format the discussion can be continued. (Such as in a staff complaint, which is what we're effectively doing now.)

Awaiting further input from staff and folks alike.

[Aqy]

I will continue to stand by what I said during the ahelps. You were asked to tone it down just a bit, no one told you to change your character and make it completely different, you decided to assume that that was what I was saying by your own volition. You may have talked to them in Skype, and resolved it, however that proves nothing when it comes to the fact that it had bothered them enough in the initial interaction that they felt the need to react the way they did.

Nowhere did I say that you needed to make interaction for everyone fun, and I think that's one section of this that's getting confusing. However when it comes to the fact that people are being upset by something being blatantly ridiculous(Which remember, this -is- a heavy role play server, a certain amount of seriousness is to be expected.) staff steps in. We're not looking to make you change everything, delete the character, and quit the server. However, when there is an issue, it needs to be addressed. And the issue here being ridiculous role play, and offensive behavior, which mind you this -is- a job. Being blatantly racist and sexist is not going to fly for half a minute before you're fired. So it's incredibly unrealistic to believe that a sexist, racist, character that attacks people for having pasta would be hired at all, let alone be transferred to a secure research station.

As for the Church of the Surprise Pizza Pack, just because someone else does something wrong and ridiculous does not mean that it makes it any less wrong for someone else to do the same thing, if they weren't caught and dealt with then shame on whoever didn't handle that. However, people being allowed to get away with breaking the rules in the past shouldn't, and currently has no effect on how future situations are handled.

[Tainavaa]

In regardds to the Church of the Great Pizza Surprise Pack and allowing that to continue. While that was silly, everyone enjoyed it and it was roleplayed well. Your character seems to be 2-dimensional with the simple concept of "PASTA." When very silly things are what pushes you over to be overly offensive then just how well thought out, or sell played, is that character? When you're walking around being as offensive as possible for the sake of being offensive then there's no fun in that.

When everybody is having fun and when it is well roleplayed, we can let things go. I don't mean to attack you but when tings are poorly thought through and everyone's fun is being ruined because of it, that sounds like a situation where staff needs to tell you to reconsider your character's behaviors inbwhat circumstances.

Note that I said character behaviors. What that means is not changing the character itself but adding more reason to their actions and making it more believable. If pasta is what makes you a roving woman hater then there's an issue with believability and character quality. If you're an antagonist, as Skull said, frothing at the mouth for everyone's pasta and being ready to get in a gang war to get it sounds perfectly fine. But otherwise, your character needs to tone it down a notch or two.

[nanotoxin]

I will continue to stand by what I said during the ahelps. You were asked to tone it down just a bit, no one told you to change your character and make it completely different, you decided to assume that that was what I was saying by your own volition. You may have talked to them in Skype, and resolved it, however that proves nothing when it comes to the fact that it had bothered them enough in the initial interaction that they felt the need to react the way they did.

That's because they had misunderstood and over reacted. They had even said so themselves.

 

Nowhere did I say that you needed to make interaction for everyone fun, and I think that's one section of this that's getting confusing. However when it comes to the fact that people are being upset by something being blatantly ridiculous(Which remember, this -is- a heavy role play server, a certain amount of seriousness is to be expected.) staff steps in. We're not looking to make you change everything, delete the character, and quit the server. However, when there is an issue, it needs to be addressed. And the issue here being ridiculous role play, and offensive behavior, which mind you this -is- a job. Being blatantly racist and sexist is not going to fly for half a minute before you're fired. So it's incredibly unrealistic to believe that a sexist, racist, character that attacks people for having pasta would be hired at all, let alone be transferred to a secure research station.

Nowhere you said that I needed to make it for for everyone? Because that was the first rule you told me I broke. "Keep the round fun for everyone." And don't even try to tell me that racist and sexist characters don't stay on the station. That's baloney, you know, I know, and literally anyone who's ever played on Aurora ever knows it.

 

As for the Church of the Surprise Pizza Pack, just because someone else does something wrong and ridiculous does not mean that it makes it any less wrong for someone else to do the same thing, if they weren't caught and dealt with then shame on whoever didn't handle that. However, people being allowed to get away with breaking the rules in the past shouldn't, and currently has no effect on how future situations are handled.

 

All the stuff Tain said [/qoute]

I wasn't going around the station calling random people offensive terms just for the hell of it. Most of the poeple who I rp'd with, did in fact enjoy it, but like Moom, they had over reacted in the moment. Other than the warden, who was going along with the pasta thing and we made rp for them, we didn't stop anyone from RPing. The character was also thought out. With a back story, his ticks, his weaknesses, his strengths, the way he looks, they way he speaks. But it's going back to that people were over reacting. Instead of Ahelping, they could've waited till the end of the round, and submited a character/player complaint (whichever they prefer) or an incident report. By then the white hot rage and the steam coming out of their ears by being asked for various types of pasta in a video game, would've died down and they'd be able to think clearly.

[Skull132]

Nano, mind replying to my reply, as you seemed to have skipped over it?

[nanotoxin]

Yeah sorry, I had planned to add it to my previous post but forgot.

 

Initial assessment. The "pushing warden over because they claimed to have pasta on them" is a silly thing to do, and if it becomes a constant, then it'll start detracting from the roleplay environment we're trying to set here, don't you think?

What happened was the warden was saying stuff like "You'll never get me to talk" "I won't tell you". So pushing him down perhaps would've been the thing to get him to talk. It was silly yeah, but it's what I thought the situation had escalated too. It won't be a constant thing though.

 

As for your character. if what you portrayed in your conversation is true, then I'd say you can keep him. Just, please don't make a habit out of shoving people over and craving for their pasta. (Or unless it's in a playful fashion, I guess? Though that would seem contradictory to your character? Idno.) Unless you're an antag, at which point, crave away! The reason for this single note is that everything's good in good measure, and if you have a character frothing at the mouth, standing over another man because he claimed to have pasta on him, then, I don't know, it doesn't seem too well roleplayed that they'd keep him around. Does this sound reasonable?

Yeah, I wasn't having him as like a pasta addict. There was just his two friends with him so mob mentality got the better of him/me as a player, and the warden was shoved.

 

Now for a bit of clarification, on the "Staff are always right" bit. And this is actually on my list of shit to clarify for now and forever, so we can start here. The rule in question is this one:

All staff decisions are final.

OOC and adminhelp aren't the place to argue about our staff's decisions. If you'd like to contest a punishment, rule, or actions from a staffmember, start a discussion thread in the appropriate subsection of our forums, either Unban Requests, Staff Complaints, or General Discussion (for discussing specific rules).

The intent and purpose of the rule is very simple: admins and mods ingame can have a lot of shit going on at one time, depending on the situation, and the more things they have to respond to, the less reasonable it is to expect them to hold long discussions about complex topics. Those are the times where this rule is levied, so that a single argument wouldn't hinder the staff's capacity to deal with potentially more important issues. Of course, it is also expected that the staff member politely apologize at that point, and quickly explain the circumstances and in what format the discussion can be continued. (Such as in a staff complaint, which is what we're effectively doing now.)

Awaiting further input from staff and folks alike.

 

Yeah I knew there was a toxins greif going on, and that Xelnaga (Who I had spoke to before but was too slow to get the logs) and Aqy were busy with that. I don't mean this as an insult, but the staff are human too. They do make mistakes, and I think we're all aware of that. They were once the players they are looking after now. This rule seems a tad, for a lack of words, closed mined. I realize you say it's only for the most dire of situations, but this isn't always the case. But eh, what can be done about it.

Anywyas, thanks for resolving this Skull.

[Skull132]

Complaint resolved. Archiving.