Mapping Request: Make RP-based roles more acessible

[Nanako]

I feel that the current map has some problems with regards to the placement of things

The station contains a lot of what i'd call "passive" RP. Where people passing each other in the hallway, or walking by someone's office, strike up a n interesting conversation. Its fun

The factors that actually govern this happening though, are complex and a little difficult to quantify. But i think the most important one is distance.

When passing someone, there are a number of social cues that govern the chance of an interaction. There's a sort of unwritten understanding about what's rude, and what's reasonable. Shouting at someone's back is rude, or calling them from a long distance away. Saying hello from the other end of the screen just comes across as wierd. In terms of passing offices, you generally have to be able to see if someone is there, in order to decide to go up and talk to them. It feels silly to walk up expecting to strike up a conversation, but find an empty office. People don't like the risk of doing that, and it acts as a chilling effect on RP where that risk is high

There's also a matter of choice. Putting people in situations where they feel politeness compels them to RP, doesn't tend to work out well, and tends to be awkward. For example, if you walk into the cargo lobby, then you're kind of expected to be there for a cargo related reason, and the conversation that strikes up sometimes feels a bit forced. On the other hand, when you're passing the roboticist, he's often not too far from his window anyway

And then, there's what i'd call invitation. Quite a few jobs, such as chemist, roboticist, and R&D tend to see a lot of passive RP because they have this little window opening onto their office, and often a wall around it. In order to see what's going on in there, they have to approach the window, it invites them closer with the promise of vision. But people also know that walking up to that window, and then walking away, would be pretty rude. So if they're going to approach the window for the sake of their curiosity, they have an internal determination to make the best of it, which often results in conversations like "hey, just checking in on you, how are you doing?"

These factors are hard to pin down, but i think some thought, and study on the subject would be a good idea, with a view to using the lessons learned when arranging the layout of a new map. With the goal of directing foot traffic and casual RP more towards those roles who have fewer duties (often nothing to do), and less towards the departments which are likely already swamped by work

I feel that the current map we're using has some problems in this regard. The aforementioned jobs get a lot of passive RP, which is often wasted because those people actually have important things to do.

On the other hand, certain jobs that are heavily dependant on RP,, are either stuck at the end of a wing with low foot traffic, buried deep inside their department, or given overly large rooms, such that the attending crewman can't really be seen by passers by.

A small, nonexhaustive list of these jobs that come to mind are

Detective

Chaplain

Librarian

Counselor

Cargo (not RP based exactly, but somewhat slow)

Internal Affairs

On the current station, i feel that these jobs are deprived of casual RP, either as a result of their design, or their placement in the station

So how can this be remedied?

1. Move them closer to the core. Place them as such, that they have some direct access to the O shaped central access corridor

If we were to rearrange the current staion as an example (i know we're getting a new one, but for the sake of example) The detective's office could be moved down to the entrance of security, perhaps shunting EVA into a different place Rooms like EVA, tool storage, and the laundry room, typically are unused most of the time, have no staffmember assigned, and thus no need for casual RP

The chaplain and librarian need to be closer too. I've played on a map where they were about at the spot where cargo is on exodus, and it got

In the case of cargo, i might advise either removing the lobby, or changing the setup so that the lobby is more internal, and the office is a corner ajoining the lobby and the main hall

2. Make them smaller. This most notably applies to the chapel, which right now is overly huge. A priest standing at the altar, can't be seen by passers. The chapel could be shrunk greatly without any loss of function, and if it's going to retain a long shape, it could also be rotated, and placed so that it faces parallel to the hall instead of perpendicular, bringing the chaplain still closer to the corridor.

Cargo also has an issue with this. It has two desks, one which faces out to the hallway, but is worthless because it's in a little adjoining top office (which makes it a pain to go around and meet people), and the other which is more useful, but is stuck inside an indented lobby, cutting the cargo tech off from traffic. Merging these two offfices into one which faces the hall, would allow greater RP options

3. Add window desks. An information desk to report crimes to the detective, a book return desk for the librarian. I can't think of a suitable example for the chaplain, but i'm ure one can be thought up. A window desk attracts people like moths to a flame

And as an aside, what's the deal with medical? The medbay reception seems like a perfect area for RP, but in practise there's never anyone at the reception desk, even though they have a cool crew monitoring station to look at. I'm not sure what's wrong here, i lack the experience, but medical need more reason to be at their desk

Departments like robotics, and R&D, where casual RP is more of a nusisance because you have stuff to do, can be made bigger and/or moved deepeer into the science department, to reduce the amount they get. Both of those rooms definitely need to be bigger anyway, i'd say

Thought?

[K0NFL1QT]

1. Move them closer to the core.

 

Gorram it, no! This isn't 'fuck around in the bar station', it's a 'science and mining facility'. Centralizing the service areas was stupid before and would be stupid to do so again. Command should stay in the middle so it is approximately equidistant from each department.

The current map is only temporary so don't bother trying to get huge rearrangements enacted. We're probably going to be stuck with it for a long time while the mapper/s work on a better alternative.

[Nanako]

Centralizing the service areas was stupid before and would be stupid to do so again.

 

I disagree. The bar is a good staging place for a wide variety of events, and a common gathering point in many kinds of situations

The RP-based nature of the place makes foot traffic necesary for it to have any impact, otherwise the bartender will just go insane from loneliness. Surely you've already seen the situation with the chaplain. Nobody visits him, nobody cares, in the majority of noncult games he'll play for 15 minutes and then go SSD from boredom. Do you not see this as a problem?

It also needs to be centred so that workers who go on a break during a slow time, aren't too far from their workplace if something bad goes down. Without a central bar to do that in, the alternative is the departmental breakrooms, which basically just means people only socialising with their own department, and relatively little interaction between departments

 

The current map is only temporary so don't bother trying to get huge rearrangements enacted.

You misunderstood. I'm well aware of this, and i'm not suggesting changing what we've got. I was using theoretical changes to what we've got as an example to demonstrate the design ethos behind my thoughts.

i'll be interested to see the new map when it's somewhat ready, and i'm really hoping it's not going to be a mystery that comes out of nowhere and is declared finished, i'd like to see it go through refinements and reshuffles according to feedback

[Guest]

Command should stay in the middle so it is approximately equidistant from each department.

Read as: Not the most exposed department on station.

It took you 10 seconds to get the nuke disk on that setup.

[K0NFL1QT]

Only because Nukies hit T-Comms and stole the teleporter board, allowing them to teleport right next to the Captain office or into the Bridge. Easy access to the disk was by design, although not as blatant as the 'Bridge at the top' setup where they just had to bust through one section of space-exposed glass/grille/glass.

Neither are great. Both make it silly easy for antags. But the Central Command layout is still preferable. Nuke disk aside, it was annoying as all hell to have to run from the engine room to command as the CE and have to walk through/around the most populated areas first.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

"This is a research station fuck the civvies!!!" is a silly argument. We have a bar, a chapel, a kitchen and a library. Stations made by Nanotrasen are obviously meant to be hubs of service and a slice of life surrounding the secure and functioning RnD labs. If this truly was nothing more than a science station then we'd remove everything except RnD, engineering, and the Bridge and give security a little office in RnD itself. These departments exist and are important and you need to accept that.

I have to say that the central civilian areas really did allow a lot more interaction and enjoyment amongst these roles. Foot traffic is important for the RP-centric roles like Chaplain and the bar. Passing by the bar I often walk in and poke around or ask how things are going because it's between me and my destination. Supply and the chaplain are harder to engage with because I have to make specific plans to walk over there, and it can tend to feel a little forced unless I'm making a specific cargo order. The areas on the periphary just dont see a lot of traffic - arrivals is a dead zone, so is departures.

Our old-map saw better integration of the service departments into the station as a whole. The Chaplain still saw himself being rather isolated, and that could possibly be alleviated if we find a way to lodge him further into the central ring. Lore-wise it makes sense from a business perspective - the services should be built where you get the most traffic, not on the periphery.

[K0NFL1QT]

"Our old-map saw better integration of the service departments into the station as a whole."

 

I'm sure it did, but at the expense of inconveniencing Command Staff and exposing the bridge and Captains office to space. That might be acceptable if we were running a ship, controlled through the bridge which is at the helm, but we're not. It's a station. It sits in orbit of a celestial body and is often at risk of space rock impacts. And I know the players have a 'you know nothing about the Syndicate' policy, but I can't imagine NT are so naive as to think putting Command areas on exterior access is a good thing when you have a known terrorist faction openly targeting your facilities.

Not to mention, if you're slacking off in the bar, you're not putting in work in your department so you better be 'on break'. If your character is 'on break' and choosing to socialize over stay available for work situations, why not have those people gather slightly out of the way? They're opting to not participate in the stations welfare, why not send all the slackers to an isolated area where they can be non-productive together.

In putting Command at the top, you isolate the Heads of Staff from their own departments and each other, depending on if they stay in their department or around the Bridge. A Central bridge meant a Head of Staff can idle safely in the middle of the station and thus very quickly get back to their departments if they are needed.

I guess this is where we differ, Jackboot; I think the best atmosphere for RP is the one that makes the most sense ICly, regarding construction etc, and you seem to see area placement as a thing that needs to be bent to OOC justification to maximize traffic and interaction.

[Nanako]

I'm sure it did, but at the expense of inconveniencing Command Staff and exposing the bridge and Captains office to space. That might be acceptable if we were running a ship, controlled through the bridge which is at the helm, but we're not. It's a station. It sits in orbit of a celestial body and is often at risk of space rock impacts. And I know the players have a 'you know nothing about the Syndicate' policy, but I can't imagine NT are so naive as to think putting Command areas on exterior access is a good thing when you have a known terrorist faction openly targeting your facilities.

I do agree with you here, i think the bridge should be at the centre, and i'm not advocating moving it

Not to mention, if you're slacking off in the bar, you're not putting in work in your department so you better be 'on break'. If your character is 'on break' and choosing to socialize over stay available for work situations,

However I disagree here. You're saying that people in the bar are not available for work situations, and yet you want to move it away from the core? I'd say that's trying to change your (imo false) statement into a true one by changing the ship. People in the bar ARE available for work situations because of its central location. In fact i'd say engineers in particular are often better hanging out there than in engineering, because it's closer to all the other departments than engineering's isolated location, allowing them to respond to breaches and maintenance calls more effectively

Doctors too. Once you've gathered up all your medical supplies and prepped the surgery room, there's not much to do until someone gets hurt. The bar being so close to medbay means we can responsibly go and have a coke or a cigarette (no smoking in medbay!) while watching the external hallway for any bleeding or limping people heading towards medical, and be close by

 

why not have those people gather slightly out of the way? They're opting to not participate in the stations welfare, why not send all the slackers to an isolated area where they can be non-productive together.

because then you're making them less productive, and giving them less reason to go to the bar. Maybe you don't want anyone going to the bar, but i'd disagree with that it's a bad thing, as long as they're not getting heavily drunk on duty.

 

In putting Command at the top, you isolate the Heads of Staff from their own departments and each other, depending on if they stay in their department or around the Bridge. A Central bridge meant a Head of Staff can idle safely in the middle of the station and thus very quickly get back to their departments if they are needed.

i agree with you here.

 

I guess this is where we differ, Jackboot; I think the best atmosphere for RP is the one that makes the most sense ICly, regarding construction etc, and you seem to see area placement as a thing that needs to be bent to OOC justification to maximize traffic and interaction.

Well it is a game, i think games should be realistic where possible, but not where realism gets in the way of enjoyment. I'd say this is why our characters don't have to go to the toilet every so often. It'd be realistic, but it wouldn't add much to the game.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I never felt inconvenienced by the bridge being up the hall to the north and I'm a consistent command player. The bridge is another location that you don't really go to unless you have a specific goal in mind. It being exposed to space didn't bother me that much either. It made it feel open, even if it gave antagonists an easier time getting inside the bridge. Non-space based antags had a harder time actually, since the hallway was a bottleneck. And I don't really want departments to revolve around making it harder for antags.

Since this is a station, you're right that the bridge doesn't have to be on the edge. But I counter that its arbitrariness allowed by being a station lets you put it anywhere. We need to look at both gameplay and player interaction as well as what it means for antagonists.

[SierraKomodo]

The main concern people had with getting into the /captains office/ from space can easily be rectified as well. Just because the command section is connected to space doesn't mean every room in the command section has to be. The teleporter, HOP office, and command break room were more inward and didn't have walls facing space on the old map, for example.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The main concern people had with getting into the /captains office/ from space can easily be rectified as well. Just because the command section is connected to space doesn't mean every room in the command section has to be. The teleporter, HOP office, and command break room were more inward and didn't have walls facing space on the old map, for example.

 

Swapping the captain's office with the break room would probably fix this, even if it encroaches on that random barren chunk of maintenence to the east.