[Resolved] Cherish - Jobban - Cyborg

[ajstorey456]

BYOND Key: ajstorey456

Total Ban Length: 1 month

Banning staff member's Key: Coalf

Reason of Ban: It was a revolutionary round, and I started about an hour and 20 minutes in. As I get here, I'm still asking the AI about what's happening when I noticed that there's a roughly Arrivals sized hole in Arrivals, so I choose the engineering module and spent the next 15-30 minutes helping there. The NEXT 30 minutes that I was in the round actively for is what got me banned.

After I patch up the hole in arrivals, I went and got a security module, because there were a few complaints in common about needing help with security related issues. I pick up my module, go to the brig to get a handle on things, and there's an assistant with a glass spear and a gas mask on, so I detained him and put him in processing. the following 8-10 minutes are spent /begging/ for an officer to come deal with the constantly resisting assistant. Eventually, I bolted the doors and left to deal with something else (AI: Problem in the armory, something something)

In the armory, an officer and the warden are standing around, and they give me some orders. They say three people, Alex Crossman, Billy Feldman, and (OFFICER) whose name eludes me, are to be detained. The assistant I had left had a tool belt and broke out of processing, and walked over to the armory, so we detain him again and I go to follow my orders. After a roughly 3 minute patrol, telling a doctor to tell me if they see the individuals, I make my way back to Sec and notice the warden and officer letting the assistant go. A brief conversation tells me not to detain the assistant, and I decide to clear up my orders. They say tase them and cuff them without chance to speak, because if you give them it, it won't work out in anyone's favor. I understand that the one guy, Alex Crossman, will probably flash me if I say "You're under arrest," assumed from the statement, and decide that speaking to them AFTER I cuff them is the best possible action. Then Alex Crossman and Billy Feldman show up. Alex is in the doorway, I say out loud "Engaging!" and tase him and cuff him. Billy got away, and I turn around to the two guys and say "Got him!" They then shoot him in the chest and a chase occurs.

Now this is the big blunder. "Why did you detain that guy without asking? Why did you follow orders if they were gonna kill the guy you were gonna detain?" Well, I had absolutely no way of knowing the intentions of the officer and the warden once the guy was detained. I knew that they were to be detained and that's it. Not only that, the guy who shot Alex went "whoops" in looc, so that wasn't even his intention. I don't think this situation was my fault, even if it is the big spelling point. I've been told through BWOINK that the AI told me /NOT/ to do that exact action, which regardless if it’s true or not, was not properly relayed to me because I never got the message. As far as I had information, the AI never told me not to do that until directly after the situation, in which I also spoke to the AI about IC. We argued about it IC for a moment, and I decided that the Warden's orders were to be followed, as per second law, THEN he killed the guy and I reconsidered. I think this whole area, the detainment and subsequent argument with the AI is where most of the confusion is, and that's totally fair that anyone was confused. So was I.

To clear that up further, let me do a play-by-play: Orders. Patrol. At sec. Confirm orders. Guy in question shows up. Follow orders. AI says, "Wtf?" in borg chat, I argue with the AI for a moment, they shoot the guy in the chest, I go "Wtf?" but don't jump to conclusions because of the LOOC: Whoops, continue arguing with the AI as the chase occurs, Common: They killed him!, I begin to reconsider allying with the Warden.

From here, I don't see the Warden and the Officer again until they're in the library with two corpses (one of which confusingly enough was the assistants. I have no idea how this occurred) and I decide not to engage with them. I end up, after wandering around ("patrolling") finding (OFFICER) in science, in which I tell him "The warden told me to tase you to the ground and cuff you. Why he tell me to do that?" (OFFICER) explains to me that The Warden and the officer are against the company, and they're trying to overthrow it, killing everything in their path. Everything connects and I realize that, while trying to obey laws 2 and 3, I broke both of them (WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE) and now I gotta go against the Warden. This was also the time that, OOC, I realized it was a rev round. I genuinely thought that a handful of people were traitors up until then.

Unthrilling conclusion: I tell the AI, the emergency shuttle arrives, AI tells me to go about it peacefully, round ends. Then Coalf is like, buddy, you're jobbanned from borg for a month.

The argument with him was moot, because there were several claims against me, so word vs many words, I'm jobbanned.

It’s worth noting that ever since the tasing of Alex Crossman, I was being constantly pestered in LOOC by deadchat (including mogelix and someone who's name started with Syn-) in which I was given information I wasn't supposed to have IC and it was stressing me out for the rest of my choices throughout the game.

Reason for Appeal: The claims I have against me are as follows, provided by Coalf:

Well the most prevelant complaint was engaging Alex in the middle of a conversation with the AI.

Second was continuously helping the harmful element about which you apperantly knew, which is word vs word but multiple people supported that version so I was more inclined to believe them than you.

Third was being a bit of a dipstick, even if you're angry going ((tell that to deadchat)) isn't the good way about it, btw I did talk to the dudes who harassed you in LOOC.

Fourth was letting the two guys into the armory even if they were confirmed hostile.

Fifth was apperantly helping revs arrest the loyalists.

First: I explained this. There was no conversation with the AI during, and I had orders prior.

Second: I didn't know it was a harmful element until they shot Alex. It was a Warden and an Officer, and Alex had been seen helping the arrested Assistant so I assumed that he was a baddie and he was going to be justly dealt with by sec.

Third: Alright that's fair, but it's one message that was a goof directly to the AI. Neglected to mention the "lmao" though, as I thought it was ironic the AI was telling me that I was being calm and doing my job well that shift.

Fourth: What do you mean letting them in? That was the Warden, they were already in. They have access there.

Fifth: See above.

A month job ban from my favorite character to play for a bunch of stuff that wasn’t really my fault entirely doesn’t seem fair, so I’m hoping that I can get to play my borg this weekend. Because I love him Thank you for your consideration.

[Coalf]

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=9295&p=86026#p86026

Posting this in thread since it's relevant to [mention]Biolock[/mention] 's complaint.

[Sytic]

Hello, I'm a player who actively supported getting you in trouble, and I wanted the jobban removed or at least lessened, until I took a look at the application (more on that below). From a player myself I can already understand having to go through this and have the effort to post an appeal is enough to burn the lessons quite thoroughly into your brain. Besides the touchy-feely stuff, not once did I actually want the player to be in trouble. I did not HARASS this player in looc, merely said that "it'd be good to know that in the future it'd be wise to take law 3 into account when making decisions that could end in harm." I did agree when he talked about the fact of not knowing that they would kill Alex Crossman beforehand, but it was a little sketchy that a Secborg would know nothing about the murders they committed before Alex got shot (admittedly accidentally) and later murderino'd by the Revs (at his request OOCly).

But I'd like to mention something that 456 mentions NOWHERE and that's the attempted detainment after the murder of Alex Crossman. Cherish goes over to Forensics, where the Detective has run off to (they also requested he be detained, I think?) and Cherish bolts it down. Detective is thoroughly fucked because he knows Alex was just murdered after being detained, and jumps into a chute. NOTHING PRIOR did I have issues with, such as the detainment of Alex Crossman. I requested maybe he think about it more carefully next time, but it's whatever. The part I was miffed with was him proceeding to still follow these orders, claiming "aaa law 2 I was ordered to" over looc, even though he knows they already murder people he captures (OOCly he knows it was a mistake, but this shouldn't be used as IC knowledge, especially because they killed him anyway later) and that capturing any more would risk their death knowingly. At this point he reconsiders, questions the last guy he finds and asks the A.I. about it. The A.I. who was new and confused (and was previously very miffed. I can attest that he said the order of "don't detain them" BEFORE you took down Alex, including before the "Engaging!" message which was while Alex Crossman was roleplaying to the revs, may I add, but it was close enough to not be registered on accident so I didn't care) praised him for it and told him to guard the shuttle. About the jist of it.

Sorry if you feel like I harassed you, but it was only to try and help. I didn't move to ahelp until after, and requested to Coalf specifically that I "just want to let him know that he can use prior and possible events to justify a breach of law 3 if you comply with an order as per law 2", as I forget what response I got to mentioning it to you over LOOC, and believed if a moderator mentioned it to you themselves over an ahelp you might have responded a little better. Maybe a stronger explanation or something, I dunno.

Overall, I think 456 fumbled. I have weird suspicions mostly because he neglected to review the actual point I made against him, which was "continued following orders after knowing that they would continue to harm peaceful crewmembers if they did so" and instead focused this on the Alex Crossman issue. Yeah, Biolock was pretty salty about it, which I told him to cool his vents. I'm not mad at what happened there, a simple fumble, happens to everyone, Biolock was cool with it. Yet when you continue following Law 2 in order to assist knowingly harmful crewmembers kill peaceful or at least diplomatic crewmembers, I start to get a little confused. And I wouldn't have cared, I thought in this application would be a brief mention of it, maybe an explanation for following Law 2 in the almost definite (ICwise, anyways) breach of Law 3 later on, which would only get worse as time goes on.

But it's nowhere, and I'll move to -1 the appeal until it's given some explanation from you, please. Have a good day man, good luck.

P.S.: The fourth claim was actually supposed to be on the A.I. Not that I made it, but I know some people were confused on it. A mishap by the A.I., they were new.

[ajstorey456]

Not even kidding, I logged on again while walking to school school because I realized I forgot this bit.

The thing I did with the detective was in attempts to do what I did with the last guy. If you read sec channel, I was trying to get him to open the shudders to talk with him.

I'd elaborate more, but I'm on my phone while walking. Its a struggle.

[Sytic]

Moving to a neutral status until given an explanation, but this guy recommends he waits until after school to check this board again and to de-stress.

[ajstorey456]

Another brief explanation EDITED TO CLARIFY THE ENTIRE SITUATION

EDIT: Precursor: I was wandering through sec during my period of reconsidering after Alex was shot and killed. I don't remember exactly when in the timeline this was, but I came across the detective, who was one of the individuals, and I said something along the lines of "Halt!" Of course, he runs off, because why wouldn't he? I'm a murderous borg as far as he knows. He runs into Forensics because the door was bolted open, so I close the door and bolt it shut. I am still outside, he is inside, the window shudders are closed. If, at this point, my intention was to bring him into the Warden and officer, I would have tased him during the very brief chase to the door, but I didn't do this.

When I closed and bolted the door from outside, my intention was for him to open the then closed shudders so we could speak through the glass. I was gonna ask wtf was going on through the glass, but he thought I called everyone else or something and offed himself in disposals, which I didn't know about until I read the ban request ironically. I said over the sec channel something along the lines of "open the shudders, I wanna speak with you" and the AI intervened by unbolting the door, so I went in to find an empty room and the AI told me he escaped, possibly through the back. In my mind, at the very moment, that confirmed that he was a bad guy because he avoided speaking with me, so I said "fuck it, next time im gonna tase him and cuff him, then he'll have to speak with me" and continued. Obviously, I never saw him again, so I never got to zap him.

While I don't blame him for going into the chute for what he thought was gonna happen, I DID say I wanted to talk over comms.

Hopefully this clears that situation up

Edited October 13, 2017 by Guest

[Biolock]

I'll respond to this when I get to my computer.

[ajstorey456]

I don't mean to be impatient, but I'm missing a possible Saturday of Cherish.

[Sytic]

On one hand, playing here is a privilege and not a right. A mod has decreed "cease this fuckery" and declared a ban on you, and not for entirely wrong reasons. I think there were much better ways to handle the situation. EDIT: But not all of them were obvious to you at the time, and it's quite possible that the admin team has made that clear for the future.That said, I'll +1 the appeal because I think a month is a bit excessive. EDIT: Especially because they have learned their lesson at this time, methinks.

[Coalf]

Well I think enough time has passed for Biolock to respond and because I've come to a decision myself after re-reading this I'll post it now.

It's clear that mistakes were made, on both sides.

Ajstorey has been told that just because he's a synthetic he shouldn't skimp out on roleplay and baton people in the middle of conversations, which is included in the gank rule, the only rule he broke willingly all other events and happenings were accidents the people talking to him in LOOC didn't help either.

At the time I only talked to one person about his LOOC harassment because I didn't realize it was the work of multiple individual.

So I urge you, DO NOT harass, metainform or otherwise yell at people in LOOC or OOC, we're all here to have a good time and dying because someone made a mistake is part of the course, we live and we learn. Man up and deal with it.

None of this was done out of malice or spite but only due to accidental behaviour and I admit that I overshot the punishment.

Thus I'll be lowering the standing jobban to three days, starting from the date this post has been made.

Thread will be locked and archived after 24 hours.

[Coalf]

24 hour response period is up.

Locking and Archiving.