Jump to content


Wiki Maintainers
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Coalf

  1. What? You Egg?! *he stabs him* Take this Cavalry
  2. Anyways, to get the thread back to the actual suggestion. The Suggestion So Far: Resident/Nurse/Intern are fused together to Medical Intern/Assistant EMT/Paramedic are fused together to Rescue Technician Physician/TP are fused together to Medical Specialist Surgeon will remain as Surgical Specialist CMO will remain as CMO Chemist will remain as chemist Psychiatrist/Psychologist are fused together to Mental Treatment Specialist (or just Psychiatrist) That's it actually. This is a lot shorter suggestion than I thought. Names are WIP
  3. But removal of TP/Nurse is the main objective of this thread. That and fusing Paramed/EMT and Psychologist/Psychiatrist, not turning everything into a single role. If the concern is over also fusing surgeon, I concede that leaving Surgeon and Doctor roles separate would be better than fusing them together. It's quite easy to see how it benefits people playing medical. For one you won't have to keep track of a chart, two, you will have a CHOICE in how you treat your patients, three, instead of being restricted by presence of other roles in the round you will be restricted by your own imagination and the tools at hand. By all accounts everyone in medical is going to have a more free hand in what they want to do, of course any true medical player would have already seen this. In terms of balance, I don't know! Everyone keeps telling me that this change will take away that "teamwork and efficiency of current medical", so according to all those medical players who are disagreeing with me, it'll actually be harder. Yes, no mechanical advantage can be gained from this change, because this isn't a change for that. Anselm said they're going to be making their own thread I recommend placing that feedback there. Yes, "if if", but again, this thread isn't about adding those two. I said it would hopefully help it. But it's not the aim nor goal of this thread. You also said you're fine with removing TP/Nurse? I don't know what your angle is. I don't think it's understandable to be bitter. Because multiple people who do play medical have spoken in support of this, in this thread. Some have spoken privately in discord, I assume so they don't get targeted specifically by the people who seem to call shots on who is considered a proper medical player and who isn't. And if people DON'T want to read charts to know what they're supposed to be doing. I think that's completely fine too. I agree with the first fully. I'd also like to see EMT/Paramedic and Psychologist/Psychiatrist. I think at this point enough people have gone basically avoiding talking about those jobs fusing, because they can't really find a good reason why they're separate. The second one. Not sure if I'd be fine with alt-titles having no mechanical variance, since eventually someone would come and try to give it a variance and we would repeat this entire circle again. EDIT: Agree with Sherman's points too.
  4. So there are many things and possibilities that would be added if Medical was more research focused? >literally who Hello, hi, me, I have been whining about role restrictions. Also Borya, Hayden, Sherman, Chada have all agreed with me this is a beneficial change and have put their own feedback and spin on it. Not to talk about others who don't play medical perhaps as often but have shown their support nonetheless. >literally who Literally on the thread there is a debate about "what nurses do in real life", in serious discussion people immediately started discussing moon's proposal and "how does this equate to real doctors?", SadKermit in their post said that "We will not get rid of people who are saying that a doctor shouldn't know everything in specialist fields that take 2-4 years to master". There is clearly a basis in this. Stop trying to dismiss the argument just because you're willfully ignorant of it. Yes, people do that. That's why people understand you don't need 3 types of the same doctor to do all those things. Yes, the whole point is to get rid of TP/Physicain, Paramed/EMT, Psychologist/Psychiatrist, the roles that are near identical. Where are the suggestion threads? Where are the issue tickets on github? Where are the github pulls? You know what suggestions threads there are? Rename chems and colors for EMT's You know what issues there are? Medical scanner bug and Surgery implements dropping. (I have not read all 437 issue tickets but I have read the first 5 pages) You know what pulls there are? Two, the previously mentioned med scanner fix and lung collapse. (Yes, I checked the archive too and the policy suggestions.) This is why it looks like "Every non med player" is trying to fix the department rather than "Med players". Because "non-med players" aren't risking getting ostracized when they stick their head out to suggest something to help the department, unlike "med players". Stop sitting in the discord, throwing ideas at a wall, take direct action. If you can come here to disagree with me, you can come here to make a suggestion. I am fixing medbay right here and right now. If you perceive those issues as non-existant, well, I'd recommend reading "Metamorphosis" by Franz Kafka to better understand. While I am glad you have come around and finally agreed there isn't enough mechanical complexity between Physician/TP and Nurse to justify their existence. I am worried that it took 3 days of constant debate to convince you to actually do something about issues you've seemingly been complaining about for months. Still, I am glad something is going to be done nonetheless.
  5. To Preface: In this response I will call my suggestion's role "Biologist". This doesn't mean it's the name chosen. I'm doing it for the ease. Yes, exactly. A Trauma Physician already overlaps with a Physician, a Physician already overlaps with a Surgeon, a Surgeon overlaps with all three. It's needless splitting for the sake of splitting. Plus the fact that literally anyone in medbay bar a resident can treat ANYTHING if a chemist is present isn't a defense, on the contrary, it just shows they only function as healy-juice carriers if a surgeon isn't present. As you said before, cooperation between these three roles is ALREADY optional. Every one of them can fix a patient if a chemist is present because they only function as needle administrators. A Biologist role will be able to choose between needling and operating. It will be able to choose if it wants to assist another biologist or not. It doesn't strip away the cooperation, it just gives everyone the option to cooperate, rather than forcing a few members to be subserviently cooperative to the ones with a better skillset. The amount of operating doctors is already limited by the amount of OR's present. Their choice is not going to be limited by an arbitrary chart people made up, their choice is going to be limited by the tools at hand. Additionally, a Biologist is not going to be as useful as the chemist on board, a Biologist is going to be useful on his own. There aren't clear boundaries. That was demonstrated because people have to make entire charts and explanations in order to even understand what they're allowed and not allowed to do. There has been a suggestion by @Chada1 to split Biologist into Medical Physician (Nurse/Physician/Trauma Physician) and Surgery Expert, this would solve this issue of being too stressed and additionally mine too. Actually, now as I write this I realize it addresses literally every point I replied to. While I personally still don't fully like it and would rather smack surgeon into doctor, it's I think better in every way than what we have. This is already covered in the fact that there is a limited amount of OR's. Frankly, everything you named can be easily achieved by just reducing the amount of OR's to one instead of two and we don't need to have 3 jobs for in order to achieve the same effect. Actually the more we talk, the more I feel like medbay is way too overstocked with tools. The only difference is that, if you're absolutely and completely alone in medbay, you will no longer be a waste of space as a Nurse or a Physician, and feel pressured by others that you should have picked a better role for solo. That's flat out wrong, and I know that because it already happens. I've used this example before, but what is an "Engineer"? What exactly is a "Scientist"? What exactly is a "Miner"? It is ALREADY IN EFFECT and it ALREADY WORKS in EVERY OTHER DEPARTMENT. Absolutely nobody out there is telling me that it's impossible for an engineer to know complex electrical engineering, Supermatter Analytics, Station Infrastructure and perfect bar refurbishing. Don't get me wrong, realism arguments aren't inherently bad. The issue is these job roles exist purely because they exist in real life. If they weren't named doctors from the start, nobody would have split them into 3 roles in the first place. It would have functioned exactly the same as science or engineering. With alt-titles being exactly that, alt-titles. Not alt-jobs. You can't make the argument that "it works for some and not for others", when there is no other example besides medical of this system. And to the point of "if players want it". That's the thing. From what I have seen, I have convinced a good amount of people that this is a good idea after I explained myself. (Again, from what I have seen) People don't start with a "good opinion" by default, opinions are just that, opinions. Do I know this is going to fix what I say it will? No. Do I THINK it's going to fix what I say it will? Yes Departmental security was met with a lot of kicking and screaming from security, yet with plenty of enthusiasm from the same medical players who are jeering at me from the crowd right now. Departmental security was also reverted eventually. I don't see how trying this out would be worse. (besides the fact there are people out there who already decided they hate it, and instead of actually putting up a defense or changing their opinion like a responsible adult, they just leave the conversation and cry about how "nobody listens to them anyways", but this is how this game has always been with every change) There have been plenty of times where more people played science or more people played engineering than medical. In absolutely no way does splitting physician into arbitrary mini-roles somehow fix a population issue. And people play the alt-titles in medical because they're given restrictions and allowances based on some out of game chart. They'd play the alt-titles in engineering if engineers weren't actually allowed to do that much, similalry to physicians. You didn't really elaborate on how exactly medical works just like security, so I took the liberty of explaining it: (spoilered for lenght) To answer your other point: Would it create way more tension if I needed 2 extra people to cuff a single resisting guy? Yes. Would it be beneficial or more fun in any way? I highly doubt it. HRP means HIGH ROLEPLAY i.e HIGH AMOUNT ergo you are expected to be IN CHARACTER at all times. It does not measure how believable the setting itself is. IF we had a server that is a clown school it would still be HRP if you were forced to remain in character at all times. I have no idea how less needless jobs would associate us with being closer to HRP or LRP. Yes, I think this exemplifies it. People "got acquainted with it", the simpler answer is "they got used to it". People got use to working this way and the sunken cost fallacy makes people feel like they wasted their time learning all these superficial charts and memorizing what they can and can't do. Again, if people want to keep cooperating, they can keep cooperating. If we go with Chada's proposal and split Surgeon away from this doctor fusion, it fixes all your issues and most of what I think is an issue. Plus a physician can already treat burns and broken bones, they can do bone surgery. Plus even if they couldn't, you said that doctors can "fix pretty much anything" with a chemist on-board, so I don't see how that discourages cooperation any more than my rework. You say that "people who over-stepped in the past", yet somehow people have had to make entire charts to explain to people what they're supposed to be even doing. You are taking a few veterans you personally know, and using them as an example of how this medical thing works perfectly. But that's exactly the issue, everyone I argue with about how "it's not that complicated" are people who have already memorized every treatment, know every surgery and can mix chems blindfolded. As you said perfectly in your previous point, you have gotten used to it. Maybe it's time to play a different department if you're so bored mechanically, that you need out-of-game rules and charts to restrict you from doing literally everything. Yes, I was told many times in this thread that they're extremely different. But the best people keep giving me is a very broad generalization of "Well a trauma physician handles emergency cases." Let me run you through a test. A man comes bleeding into medbay, he is in critical condition. If there is a Physician, he handles the case and fixes his arteries. A man comes bleeding into medbay, he is in critical condition. If there is a Physician and a Surgeon, he handles the case but the surgeon is fixing his arteries. A man comes bleeding into medbay, he is in critical condition. If there is a Physician, Trauma Physician and a Surgeon, the Trauma Physician handles the case but the surgeon fixes his arteries. A man comes bleeding into medbay, he is in critical condition. If there is a Trauma Physician and a Surgeon, the TP handles the case but the surgeon fixes his arteries. A man comes bleeding into medbay, he is in critical condition. If there is a TP, he handles the case and fixes his arteries. In every case a Physician can handle everything the TP can, except without having to juggle the patient around. If someone's heart doesn't work, the TP is ONLY useful, if there is NO chemist and NO surgeon to provide medicine or surgery specialization. Again, could have been replaced by a doctor if there was a chemist and would have made no difference from a regular physician if there was a surgeon. This is why it's unnecessary. The entire department has to bend all of its functions in order to justify the TP's existence. This is the definition of a Mary Sue, not a "very unique job". Further, yes, why didn't anyone think of mechanically differentiating them? Because they have gotten used to it. Nobody thought about improving things, because they have already gotten used to playing this way. Literally none of those things needed a Trauma Physician. Read that entire annecdote again and tell me how the Trauma Physician was somehow a central figure in it? Anyone could have taken point. Yes, if we made a role called "Security Officer Sergeant", they would take point automatically because people would assume they're in charge, despite having no actual difference in terms of experience, or ability. By turning everyone into a Biologist, ANYONE can take point! That player who did it as TP? He can do it too, except this time more people can be confident about stepping up and saying "No, I don't think we should handle it like this, we should handle it like this", without being immediately shot down by "Well you're not the TP so you don't take charge." Homogenizing the roles INCREASES roleplay, and takes away needless "Let me check the wiki". I can agree with not merging surgeon and physician roles, as I've explained above although I'm still iffy about it. But as I explained above, Nurse/TP/Phys. Psycho/Psychia are un-needed and should be merged. If everyone thinks its such a great idea to differentiate between them using mechanics. If this thread closes and doesn't go through. I will be every single day on the lookout for that promised thread suggesting that mechanical depth. Just so I can jump in and give my support right away,
  6. I'll read all of that when I have the energy to argue. I am simply posting that I am aware of this and to thank you for all the feedback. But before I rest up and get into reading this, I will preface it with this: If there are people out there saying they don't like this change, and they haven't commented, I recommend they comment. If I see someone who hasn't commented, talk about how I didn't listen to them, in discord or game. I will make their Maxilla impact their Sacrum at lightning speed.
  7. 1) I agree with your reasoning here. I am not fully set on the roles as you propose them. But yes, people are right that the term "Biologist" isn't culturally as broad as the word "Engineer". Which might cause confusion in new players. 2) I am not sure about the Nurse. While I agree with the Physician and TP. I don't really have enough experience playing Nurses to concretely say if they should be fused or not. 3) Yep, psych is the one role I got the least resistance on fusing. I think most people playing it agree that while the difference between a psychologist and psychiatrist IRL is important. It's un-needed on station. Also don't apologize. I know that changing a department is always scary, I've gone through this too. I also apologize to you and @Roostercat. I got snippy, I didn't mean to get snippy. I just got frustrated.
  8. I had taken feedback and I thought about the interpretations. This is why I have clarified my intentions multiple times, changed the thread name and agreed with both Borya and Hay that the names aren't that good and better ones would be better. What I hadn't taken, is sheer disagreement, which you seem to think is feedback. If I took your "feedback" then I would have closed the thread at this point and agreed with you, I don't agree with you. Further, if you had read the thread you would not have said "it's a change for the sake of change". I have given multiple hours of my life giving people responses and explaining in detail what my intentions are, and then I get told that it's a change for the sake of change? At that point I can't believe you if you say you have read the thread, because you would not have made that claim unless your aim was to try and discredit me based on what you assume is my intent, than what I have proven is my intent. People already have the same role. Tell me exactly how a Trauma Physician and a Doctor don't step on each others toes, despite the fact that they cover 80% of each other's jobs. Tell me exactly how an EMT and a Paramedic don't step on each other's toes besides the fact there is literally no difference between them in-game. Tell me exactly how a medical Resident and a medical Intern aren't stepping on each others toes despite being literally the same job. Nurse is the only job that is arguable and was a poor example for my case, but guess what, even right now people are talking about giving a Nurse more privileges and ergo more overlap with a medical doctor. Because I already answered it to detail above how I think it solves problems. Again, and again, and again, and again. I didn't use Star Trek as an excuse. I used Star Trek as an example.
  9. 1) People can go pound sand with their interpretation. The rest was answered above. 2) You can do that RP with this change too. 3) See above. 4) It's not adhered to in other departments. Detaching it will fix it because you can't attribute value to from real-life roles to roles in-game if they don't exist. 5) Already answered all of those. 6) All of our departments are detached from their real-life counterparts and more connected to their sci-fi counterparts. This is a sci-fi universe and by giving it a unique name we can attach our own identity to it. It sets a better precedent. 7) I consider the current medical setup poor. I've explained in detail what it aims to change, read the thread before you post next time. And people can go pound sand with their interpretations.
  10. Yes, that is exactly the issue. The fact you need an entire ass chart. WHY do you need it? Why exactly? This is a symptom, not a solution! You have 3 medical professionals, they do exactly the same job, they're expected to do exactly the same job. Yet 2 of them can't because, because this chart tells them they can't? Not only that, but this chart doesn't even have a nurse! There is a debate on right now about what a nurse should even do, because as you are aware we don't have enough complexity and mechanical depth to justify a nurse doing everything they do in real life, because at that point they might as well be acting as Physicians since all these jobs are so extremely similar. And if someones characters identity HINGES so strongly on being refereed to as "Trauma Physician" rather than "Physician", nobody is taking that away. They will still be a doctor, they will still have a doctorate, they will still have all of your backstory, qualifications etc. etc. etc. The difference is, that you won't be named "Doctor" on station, and there won't be 4 flavors of you.
  11. The names can be changed. If people have such an issue with "Researcher" it can be changed. The reason I chose the term "Biologist" is because it's a term for "People who muck around with biology". Similarly, to how Engineer is just a blanket term for "People who muck around with technology." Besides the name change, I've expressed we would also fuse Psychologist and Psychiatrist together. Fuse EMT and Paramedic together. Fuse Physicians/Trauma Physician/Surgeon together. Fuse Nurse/Resident/Intern together. So it's not PURELY a name change, it'll also enable more people to get involved in more procedures and simplify the process. Physician/Nurse/Trauma Physician/Surgeon in particular are a horribly egregious case of overlapping systems that is excused only because this is how it is in real life and people keep using that argument to excuse this horrid system. Imagine it with any other department. Miner/Minelet/Super Miner/Ultra miner? Security Officer/Cuff Only Security Officer/Shotgun Specialist/Giga Chad Security Officer Engineer/Door Technician/Engichad/Engod? I am not aiming to fix medical as a whole. I am aiming to divorce medical from the very real job of a doctor. Because we keep trying to assign roles and specialists that exist IRL to mechanics and depth, we do not have and will probably never have. This has resulted in medical being reworked and refurbished on the requirements, restrictions, roles and attitudes multiple times. A thing no other job has gone through in the scope/size/severity as medical has in the last few years. It has been unproductive, circular and repetitive, with the same points being brought up each time and each time. Noted, will change.
  12. The reason why I want to pursue a simple name change first, rather than a full on "let's murder medical". Is because of this exact response. I do not want to invalidate other peoples feelings. A lot of people play medical and they enjoy it. I recognize the fear they're going through, about a year or two ago when I used to main Psychiatrist I supported a mechanical change that would change the role completely. It resulted in me HATING the role and never playing it again. This is why I do not want to change anything fundamentally but simply alter the names and essentially revert medical to how it was. If people wish to pursue the path of Med/Sci in the future? I won't stop them, but I think it should be approached AS carefully as departmental security was. The names are more of a work in progress, I made it yesterday, I was tired and bolstered by people who told me it was a cool name. I understand how it could be confusing. Again, I am not opposed to the whole change being named completely differently. As long as it results in less overlapping doctor roles and a divorce of IRL med and in-game thread. Also yes, the name is a bit attention-grabby. I perhaps overestimated how many people actually read these threads compared to just posting in them.
  13. Make a new thread for it after this one closes. I already have enough people getting on my ass that I want to replace medical with research because they can't read. I don't want more misinterpretation to be spread around. I do not hold strong opinions on fusing medical and science. I think it's a cool idea, but that is not the aim and the more people talk about it, the more misinformation is spread because again, people don't read.
  14. None of this was based or hinges on non-existant mechanics or things that will eventually be added to the game. It's based on divorcing IRL med and in-game med, alongside reducing the amount of useless roles that constantly overlap each other to the point where we've had to make charts to keep tabs on how many things these roles overlap in, but can't do, so that other roles are allowed to do them. I said it CAN serve and I HOPE it'll work to better integrate concepts that MIGHT be re-added. Also the "Flaw in my argument" is actually in support of my argument. Yes, Aurora lacks cloning, virology, genetics, dissection, surgery, chemistry. This is exactly why we don't need so many roles, thank you for confirming that. Yes, that is something useless, but because it is broken, not by design. None of that is being taken away by this change. Said this like 3-4 times already. Assistants will help by guiding people to the Biologists. Biologists will counsel patients, handle paperwork and work with the departments. Rescue Techs will have those adrenaline filled moments in which a critical patients needs to be resuscitated. Biologists will appreciate post-op procedures. Literally nothing is going to change. Again, since this needs to be said. NONE OF THIS IS GOING TO BE TAKEN AWAY, STOP SPREADING THIS This doesn't seek to address the issue of factory medbay. It's here to address arbitrary roles, realism arguments and trying to ape real-life professions in a game that is neither as nuanced nor complex to facilitate that kind of aping. Yes, if it was the aim it would fail. Which it isn't, you can read about more above in my clarifications. Or we just remove all 3 of those jobs, replace them with a Biologist and he can do that except he can also operate if he feels like it. Yes, a nurse is so useless in how our medical works that she can be replaced with a security officer who knows first aid and knows that Tramadol is painkillers. Okay? That'll probably still happen even after this change. Again, this isn't removing a chemist or making a super-doctor who will be able to do literally every job in medbay. Chemist is still going to exist. Or we remove TP, Physician and Nurse so that a surgeon is always present. Since they're so useless they can be replaced with a carrot cake? If the point is to be creative, the ability for people to do more things is going to perpetuate creativity with how far people can take their treatment. Rather than shrugging their shoulders and pointing to a different doctor, or just metagaming with carrots. I never said anyone "deferred to me". You can look in the medical thread RIGHT NOW to look at a whole ass chart, listed by specific organ to organ on what you can and can't do. It's stupid, arbitrary and makes no sense in the game. As of now we have 4 jobs that do the same thing, but each of them is told they can't do certain specific things because ????? Except this isn't an individual, nor is it a player specific behavior. It's an up-kept culture that has been normalized within medbay. Besides, this does not exist to address these people, this change (as explained about 5-6 times) serves to divorce the idea of medical in-game, from medical in real life. Specifically so people stop making threads about how "this job does this and this job should do this", not how people behave in-game. Yes, we rename the jobs and remove the useless roles. This already makes it very clear what they're supposed to be doing, makes it impossible to overstep because hey, there is no overstepping and improves IC mentality by removing this antiquated system of medical professionals everyone refers to. After reading your reply it seems I'll need to make a third summary, because people are still just assuming what I'm saying instead of reading the points. READ THE THREAD BEFORE POSTING THIS ISN'T ABOUT TURNING MEDICAL INTO SCIENCE HOLY SHIT
  15. I didn't say it's hard. I said the titles are arbitrary and useless, which they are. We have nowhere near the amount of medical mechanics to justify these role splits. Yes, some people play extraneous roles. Does not make these roles a non-waste. People play Electrical Engineers, people played Pharmacists. It's about the long-term benefit, not the short-term appeasement. And no, major chunk of my argument was that the jobs are rudimentary, not that people can and can't do things. Imagine if you had a Miner Technician who can mine every mineral, Miner who cannot mine phoron and Uranium and a Minelet who can only mine iron and coal. They're all extraneous job positions. This is the current state of doctor. Yes, suffer, but rarely do developers take it into account or pay lip service to these arguments. Yet in medical it is not only supported, but EXPECTED that people base their arguments on real life credentials and what those jobs do. I have never seen RP develop from the fact that someone is a nurse and not a doctor. Yes, people have passed me onto someone else because they weren't capable of doing something and yes, people have taken others to assist them during surgery. BUT Neither of those things is being removed, Rescue Techs will still pass on patients they have stabilized, Biological Assistants will still assist people during surgery if they ask for it. No RP is being removed, what is being removed is actually arbitrary mechanical restrictions. There is a constant rush to "pass on patients" to the right physicians, no RP comes of this, people just regurgitate patients from one doctor to another. There is no interaction being generated because there is the pressure of the fact that if you talk with the patient, he might die during the RP. Example: If you have 5 doctors and 3 patients, you have 2 doctors who are free to do essentially anything they want. They can assist the other doctors, they can talk to patients post-surgery, they can sort medical, they can talk to patients during their diagnosis and lift the pressure off of the person doing mechanical diagnostics. If you have 5 patients, 5 patients are going to get treatment. Example 2: If you have 5 doctors, 2 of them are physicians, 2 of them are trauma physicians and 1 is a surgeon, and 3 patients. If those three patients have a brain injury, the surgeon is the only one occupied. If those three patients got too drunk and now have liver damage, the surgeon is the only one occupied. If those three patients had their lungs collapse, the 2 physicians are still not qualified. If you then have 5 patients, those 5 patients have a very low chance of getting treated if they have anything outside of arterial bleeding. It's complex in the same way a license to sell cabbages in the EU is. It shouldn't be, there is no reason for it to be, but it is. There is no benefit from the current system to anyone playing medical. People have simply gotten used to playing this way.
  16. PART II OF MY SUGGESTION SINCE A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO BE CONFUSED I have done a wrong job of explaining what I meant with Biologistics. The purpose is not to turn medical INTO research. It is to keep medical AS IS But the reason for the rebranding are: 1. Separate the "real life" concept of medical from the on-station medical. No other job suggestion can survive off of the "But in real life..." argument. Yet medical changes HINGE on this point. This is purely because people still attach the name "medical" and "Doctor" to its real life counterpart. This means that we give more validity to arguments that make no sense for any other job. (When was the last time you heard someone say 'but in real life mall security doesn't have guns!'?) Thus the purpose isn't to turn them into science, the purpose is to remove the idea that medical on-station is somehow equal to medical in real-life. Every other job role already works that way, because when you think of an engineer you don't think of a guy at a drawing board calculating the size of rivets. But rather, a dude in a space suit fixing a ship. 2. Widen the impact of roles, while lessening the arbitrary numbers of them. There is no reason to have a Physician, Trauma Physician, Nurse and Surgeon nor is there a reason to have a Psychologist, Psychiatrist, EMT and Paramedic. We have nowhere near the amount of procedures that warrant the existence of these jobs. As it stands a Surgeon can do anything, the reason he can't is because he's not allowed to because he'd be taking fun away from other players not because he's restricted from it in any way. Having just a Doctor/Biological Specialist/Fixery Uppery Toppery Man is better in every regard. I am completely fine with it not being called Biologistics or Biological Researcher. But the point is to remove the term "doctor" and replace it with something that comes attached to a sci-fi concept, rather than a real life concept.
  17. No, I just rename the jobs and make less jobs. The whole thing might change flavor slightly and open it up to being more leaning towards the science wing, but absolutely nothing is going to change for the people in medical. You will still be a doctor, you will still fix peoples bones, you won't be expected to do more than that. If the title of Biological Researcher is SUCH an issue, it can easily be replaced with a different one. But the main point is to divorce the ideal of real-life medical, from our medical. Similarly to how Engineering, Security, Cargo, Command and "Civilian" are. 1) This is exactly the kind of thing I hope to get rid of. Detaching the whole department away from this concept of "well this isn't realistic, this is how that works and this is how this works" is exactly the pursuit and you have demonstrated it perfectly. There is absolutely zero reason to get so in-depth about this just because your own personal understanding of this field is broader than someone elses. Engineering, Security, Detective Work, Commanding, all of these jobs are also a mixture of multiple different doctorates, schools and experiences. We make fun of security officers who take their job too seriously and act realistically because "Well it doesn't make the game fun". Yet we tolerate the same gate-keeping and toxic behavior from doctors because it's "how real professionals do it". Similarly, for a long time, "Biology" has been a catch-all term for both science and medical doctors. See: Dead Space, Star Trek, Star Wars etc. Not only that but as you exactly pointed out, it also includes ALIENS. Something our extremely specific and narrow understanding of how doctorates and Phd's work DOESN'T INCLUDE! Thus the "real life look" onto things ALREADY does not work, yet people are willing to tolerate that? Not only that but our medical jobs are already different in many details from real-life medical jobs in what they do, are supposed to be doing and how they're doing them. I really don't get why people are so heavily married to this idea of following the "proper medical naming scheme" yet when it comes to realism in literally any other aspect it's suddenly fine that it isn't that way. 2) Same argument applies. Medical will be doing exactly the same thing as they've been doing until now. Except their roles will be wider, not narrower as you seem to be trying to imply. None of the problems you outlined are real with this change. If the idea of "Biological Researcher" is so bad, they could easily be called "Biological Specialists", it's just a renaming scheme existing specifically to divorce medical from these arguments for "Well in real life". It has been happening for YEARS. 3) The ability to do more things doesn't make you a powergamer, otherwise I'd ask you why are you playing a CMO and not a physician when you do play medical. Well in my scenario I came to medical and died due to a Kidney failure because the 5 present medical professionals weren't qualified to deal with it. It was fascinating to see the flow of them panicking and putting me on a constant drip feed of anti-tox while saying "I hope a surgeon connects soon" in LOOC. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence, for every good encounter you bring up I can bring a bad one. The difference is I know that medical worked just as fine as how I suggest it, because that's how medical was 3-4 years ago before we started splitting it into smaller and smaller arbitrary roles. The reason I am suggesting re-branding, rather than just turning back the time and turning everyone into a doctor again. Is because people will make the exact same arguments as they are in this thread, to get it split up into tiny roles again, repeating the whole issue all over again. Besides this already exists! Surgeons can actually do anything, there is no need for anyone to play a physician or a trauma physician. There very clearly does not exist a "importance of having roles that are split into clear responsibilities and can-do’s and cannot-do’s." Because again, this has been consistently changing EVERY YEAR and people are now making actual CHARTS about what they can and can't do because the restrictions have become so arbitrary that players can't even keep track of them without writing them down.
  18. I think that's ridiculous, the longer you let people work with something the more they get used to it. The faster a change comes, the less people will be upset with how large the scope of those changes will be because many might not have gotten used to them yet, or adjusted their characters. Yes, that's the point. Engineers also do everything. Scientists can do any role in science. Literally nobody has issue with those two. It was fine in Star Trek, it doesn't matter here. It's going to rename them all, and give everyone a wider skill set so they can apply it in more situations. Rescue Technician can be changed to something else. No issue with that, but I don't think it's such an issue. Valid, but I don't think purely changing the names of a department is going to cause such a marginal change. I'd relate it more to if we renamed "Cargo" to "Operations" and "Cargo Technician" to "Storage Operators". Rather than what you spoke about. If such an umbrella term as "engineer" can be mis-used for so many things engineers don't really do at all, I think we can mis-use biologist in the same way without an issue. Could be possible, yes. Medical Researcher, Medicinal Researcher, Biological Technician, Body Fixxer Upper etc. all would be valid options. I don't think it changes the spirit as a whole. If it is so severe as people keep repeating, perhaps it is for the best since so many research roles are also interspersed with biology. And it could in the future open up the possibility of re-adding virology, genetics and allowing chemists to experiment more. As far as people know we're primarily a research based setting. Even in NBT the research department is where a large part of energy is going to go. This isn't changing anything, again, this is just branding it as something "ours" and bringing it closer to the whole feeling of a space-opera. Similar to how in Star Trek the medical there is also included under science. Nothing is going to change. In fact what I'm suggesting has existed in SS13 for a long time, only recently has it become a trend to anally over-specify jobs to the point where there can be a department full of doctors but not a single one can operate on my kidney. No other department holds the issue of "Waah this job title isn't realistic enough!!! REAL DOCTORS DON'T DO THAT". Further, if we're not in pursuit of realism, why has this line of thinking not only been tolerated, but actually appeased to by developers, CCIA and admins alike? It has gotten out of the teams hands. This makes it easier on everyone. If you get alienated because of a name change, then you're part of the issue. Yes everyone had to change when we split detective and forensics tech, yes everyone had to change when we excluded handicapped characters from certain jobs, yes everyone had to change when we added 2-4 arbitrary job roles to medical when it was previously handled by doctors, meaning people who did surgeries for 3+ years now couldn't. I literally just changed the name and grouped everyone into less jobs so they can do more things. Nobody has to change their backstory. Nobody has to change their requirements. Nobody has to make an excuse. Nobody has been invalidated. No roleplay has been ruined. No "general checkups and physicals" have been removed. Medical will be doing exactly the identical thing they have been doing until now. The difference is, people will be divorced from their vanity of basing their entire existence of their character on the fact they are allowed to pull a light-bulb out of someones ass while a Nurse isn't. All of our jobs are inaccurate portrayals of real life jobs. Calling medical "Biology" has been a staple of sci-fi for a long time now and I don't see why medical in specific is supposed to be the one department that just HAS to be as realistic as possible in how we title it. Further, yes, the point is to remove the unnecessary medical restriction, requirement and superiority bloat. I am tired of this because this "Promising update" has now happened about 11 times. It started off with just splitting Surgeon and Doctor, then we split EMT and Paramedic, then we placed more restrictions on those jobs, then we placed more restrictions on what nurses can do, then we split Medical Intern and Medical resident and what those two can do, then we continued and added a fucking "Trauma Physician" and now we're at a point where a doctor can't perform a good 40% of medical because he isn't "qualified" while a nurse is expected to shuffle papers and guess what people have ALREADY started arguing about that. This whole "splitting" is ridiculous, facile and serves nothing besides annoying everyone involved. Except the surgeon of course who can do anything he wants if there are no other physicians present, making him effectively CMO 2.
  19. No beating around the bush, let's get into it. Replace Medical with: Biologistics Assistant Biologist - Intern/Resident, the "Hello I am Baby Help me" job Biological Researcher - Doctor, Surgeon, Nurse, CBT Expert and everything in-between Rescue Technician - EMT/Paramedic/Firefighter, whatever, basically the "Go out and save the schmuck. Chemist - No need to change this. Mental Health Researcher - Psychologist/Psychiatrist in one role. Head Biological Researcher - CMO Pro's: By making this IRL set of jobs completely ours, we also gain complete control over it in terms of lore and development. The constant repeating and draining argument of "Well this job does X and needs Y age and also we should make 2 more subsets of jobs because these surgeries are extremely complicated for one person" is discarded. The gap between how unrealistic the gameplay itself is and how stupidly over-specific the job titles and their requirements were, is going to be bridged. It is going to bring us closer to a Corporate, Scientific Motif. While yes, "We're not going to be a research station forever", NT is still a company and by creating a wholly unique medical job for them, it's tying it closer to our setting, rather than what people imagine normally under the term "doctor". Yes, people can still call each other Dr. or use Doctorates, the difference is it makes the developers, lore writers and admins jobs much easier. Because they no longer need to study a phonebook worth of information just to tell Drak Ula that he indeed can't do a triple spanktomy on that patient. Absolutely every other job already functions like this, nobody has ever complained about them. I think it's time we also stop this constant debate for medical. Con's: A lot of people are attached to medical roles as they are right now and this is going to make them angry/sad/upset. I am not here to say that your opinions or feelings don't matter, I personally haven't played medical in a LOOONG time so maybe YOU don't think I have a right to speak about this. But the fact is, medical is the only department that has consistently gone through these arguments, debates and near bi-monthly changes to roles, requirements, ages etc. etc. Every other department is perfectly content with being a vague sci-fi equivalent of an IRL job. I think that if you try this, you might find that nothing important changed and you were clinging to arbitrarily constructed ghosts for comfort.
  20. Long time no posting! Here is Afterparty, bunch of Bloodstorm members and their fans.
  21. Yuri Drrawa'jur executed, Shiassta dead, Yizarius disgraced! An unlawful execution of a member of the pro-Hegemony Drrawa’jur family was reported this morning, carried out on the orders of none other than the disgraced Ex-Overlord, Yizarius. In the middle of the arrest and prosecution of Yuri Drrawa’jur, Yizarius was already stripped of his title, rank, and power by the Hegemon after his disgusting ruse was finally discovered: Admiral Shiassta has been dead for weeks! A loyal insider reported a few days after Yuri Drrawa’jur’s imprisonment that Admiral Shiassta was killed in the initial clashes with the rebels, and the holo-call speaker was a mere fake! A prerecorded message of the Admiral. At the time no one at court could verify Lord Shiassta as he had always been known to be sparse with his words. After this tip off a transcript was shown to his loyal wife who confirmed that it was, in fact, not her husband. Afterwards the recording was likewise shown to his son, who supported the claim of his mother. With clear evidence from the insider and Shiassta's son. The Hegemon stripped Yizarius of all titles and ranks on the spot, a notion supported by all present. Despite the condemnation of Yizarius, his royal retainers have refused to imprison the rogue Lord. Instead claiming the Hegemon a liar, usurper, and one who takes to bed with Threshbeasts. In spite of such insults, the Hegemon has remained calm. And while the uproar from the surrounding generals was deafening, The Hegemon simply replied: What this ominous quote implies, we do not hazard to even guess.
  22. I see no issue and so far I've gotten only recommendation. Accepted!
  23. Gakal’Zaal liberation in progress, but can they last without you? Gakal’Zaal’s liberators report major victories all over the planet of Gakal’Zaal! This colony, grasped by the long talons of the oppressive cold-bloods, has been choked for too long and finally, its people are calling for liberty! However, now more than ever they need help and support. While the DPRA stands fully at their side both in spirit and in flesh, many others stand by and do nothing. This is not the case for the son of Mj'akurahur Drrawa'jur, Yuri Drrawa'jur, who has now publicly spoken out against the current “Overlord”. While the family of Drrawa'jur has a history of royalty, Yuri is a staunch believer in democracy and free choice of the people. This young man has used his inborn position of privilege to lessen the weight of taxes, provided his estates for peaceful gatherings and continued to support a compromise between the Overlord and freedom fighters. Doing the right thing is not always easy and Yuri Drrawa’jur is a shining example of such! But will he fight alone, or will you join him and many others? As we speak, volunteers from all over the universe are congregating on Gaka’Zaal. You could be there too.
  24. Pressure Mounting, Rebels a Threat? Despite the continued arming of his world, the losses on Gakal’zaal have been mounting according to insider reports. Numerous casualties of both Tajara loyalists and Sinta warriors are being counted just north of Kaszhizi. The perpetrators? The so-called Gakal’Zaal Liberation Front, a group of upstart raiders and heretics who have banded under an alien flag to try and sabotage the internal workings of Gakal’zaal and the Hegemony as a whole. Overlord Yizarius was quick to lay any suspicions to rest. As he reports, the only reason these “freedom fighters” have been capable of laying a finger on his warriors is that they have adopted a certain type of combat called “Guerilla warfare”, a highly dishonorable and shameful form of war which uses trickery and deception to cause as many casualties as possible. However, he assures, the fact is that for every Sinta life the rebels lose ten times as many and that by his projections, the war should end next week. Overlord Yizarius also claims that as a result of this upset, he will be forced to raise taxes, increase tariffs and suspend any tithes to be paid towards the Hegemony. Suspicions were immediately raised but Yizarius’ said that his second in command, Grand Admiral Shiassta, would not only vouch for him. But also offer up his estates, titles, lands and honor as possible payment instead of the required tithes. Distrustful, a meeting was called immediately. However, after brief negotiations, the Hegemon agreed on a holographic call instead. ///Open Feed
  • Create New...