Coalf

Commission for Cybs Shumaila

The Vow of Silence that impacts all Sun Sister character's has been specified and put onto the wiki. https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=S'rendarr_and_Messa#The_Parivara

Walid Al'Qat Dies and a New Father is Elected We regretfully announce that, on 16.08 2462*, Father Walid Al'qat suddenly but peacefully died in his sleep. His body was discovered the next day by one of the Seedlings who was tasked with attending to the Father's morning routines, he is as of now hospitalized due to stress. The upper levels of the Parivara refused to permit an autopsy of the body, but the attending physician theorized that an undiagnosed heart condition may have been the cause of the Father's abrupt passing. This tragic news only arrives to the ears of our people today, as it’s customary for the Parivara to withhold the information on the death of The Father or The Mother until a new head has been elected. Thus with this sad announcement, also come the pleasant news that a new father had been elected, Valyan K'rrirran. We now bring you an exclusive announcement, written by the newly appointed Father. This was a grave mistake and accident which must have cased an indescribable amount of suffering and miscommunication in the past. Thus in the power invested in me, I will be taking full responsibility over this error and partaking in penance. After consulting Mother, we have agreed that the vow of silence is as of now lifted, unless a sister does not wish to abandon it. If she does, she must still keep in mind that she is only permitted to speak only when it is required and to the person for whom the words are intended to. Whispering or moving to an isolated area is recommended, if a sister finds herself in a situation where she must speak to a crowd, an intermediary should relay her words, if none is present she is allowed to preach but this is to only be done in emergencies. If a sister suspects she had been overheard, she is to refer to the nearest Sun Priest or Sun Sister for punishment. If none is present, a day of fasting and the Hymnal of Apology come next morning will be sufficient repentance. Further, it has come to my attention that some sisters have even previously used the Hunter's language or the human sign language to bypass their vow of silence and idly prattle. I regret that I stand to remind them that they took the vow of silence for a reason, and that the belief that a vow can be bypassed on technicality is a sin. To all those, Mother and I command three days of fasting and twenty hymns every morning of that fasting as punishment. The second addition comes in the form of a new hymn written by Brother K'arrarr in 2013 AI, done to honor the gods and accompany those who have found themselves on long voyages from which they might not return. We hope to bring more translated and approved scrolls, hymns and teachings from the archives faster than before now that the PRA government has negotiated a cooperation with their learned men. Remember, wherever in the galaxy you may be, whatever you may be feeling, the lights of S’rrendar and Messa, shine upon all of you. Blessed be. Signed, Father Valyan K'rrirran Praise S’rrendar and long life to him! The Father has further declared that mourning for the deceased Al’qat should come before the revelries of the newly appointed Valyan K'rrirran as a sign of respect. * Transcribed to Standard Universal Dating for Biesel readers. ** Original Translation Reads: "....about those of white and blue fabric, let them become ones with the seriousness of goddess. To hear a sister talk to another one, is a crime to her and all others with ears open…."

I see no issue. Accepted.

Gakal’Zaal in flames, Oppressors losing ground. The revolution continues as violent clashes break out all over Gakal’Zaal. While the resistance sputtered in the past, the execution of Yuri Drrawa’jur was the kindling that allowed the nurturing of this spark into a raging inferno! The citizens have now begun a campaign of sabotage and subterfuge. Workers refuse to go back to the factories and fields, tax-collectors have found themselves ostracized and attacked by the farmers and even the cold-blooded land-lords have refused to enact the raised tax policies of the Beast, Yizarius. This planetary strike seems to have taken the lazy lizards, used to subservience from their subjects, by surprise. The city of Kri’yata, in particular, has seen a surge in violence, as during a peaceful protest some of the Yizarites opened fire onto the crowd under the pretense that an explosive was present; shortly after they found themselves overrun and with their guns seized by an angry crowd marching down the streets of Kri’Yata. -->Open Feed<-- Due to these disturbances, the Gakal’Zaal Liberation Front has continued unopposed and even gains strength as more and more civilians and previously loyal garrisons join the liberation of their homeworld, along with the arrival of recent volunteer forces it is stipulated that Zikala will be reached within two weeks.

This application seems solid. I just have a question about how long do you see yourself on the team?

What? You Egg?! *he stabs him* Take this Cavalry

Anyways, to get the thread back to the actual suggestion. The Suggestion So Far: Resident/Nurse/Intern are fused together to Medical Intern/Assistant EMT/Paramedic are fused together to Rescue Technician Physician/TP are fused together to Medical Specialist Surgeon will remain as Surgical Specialist CMO will remain as CMO Chemist will remain as chemist Psychiatrist/Psychologist are fused together to Mental Treatment Specialist (or just Psychiatrist) That's it actually. This is a lot shorter suggestion than I thought. Names are WIP

But removal of TP/Nurse is the main objective of this thread. That and fusing Paramed/EMT and Psychologist/Psychiatrist, not turning everything into a single role. If the concern is over also fusing surgeon, I concede that leaving Surgeon and Doctor roles separate would be better than fusing them together. It's quite easy to see how it benefits people playing medical. For one you won't have to keep track of a chart, two, you will have a CHOICE in how you treat your patients, three, instead of being restricted by presence of other roles in the round you will be restricted by your own imagination and the tools at hand. By all accounts everyone in medical is going to have a more free hand in what they want to do, of course any true medical player would have already seen this. In terms of balance, I don't know! Everyone keeps telling me that this change will take away that "teamwork and efficiency of current medical", so according to all those medical players who are disagreeing with me, it'll actually be harder. Yes, no mechanical advantage can be gained from this change, because this isn't a change for that. Anselm said they're going to be making their own thread I recommend placing that feedback there. Yes, "if if", but again, this thread isn't about adding those two. I said it would hopefully help it. But it's not the aim nor goal of this thread. You also said you're fine with removing TP/Nurse? I don't know what your angle is. I don't think it's understandable to be bitter. Because multiple people who do play medical have spoken in support of this, in this thread. Some have spoken privately in discord, I assume so they don't get targeted specifically by the people who seem to call shots on who is considered a proper medical player and who isn't. And if people DON'T want to read charts to know what they're supposed to be doing. I think that's completely fine too. I agree with the first fully. I'd also like to see EMT/Paramedic and Psychologist/Psychiatrist. I think at this point enough people have gone basically avoiding talking about those jobs fusing, because they can't really find a good reason why they're separate. The second one. Not sure if I'd be fine with alt-titles having no mechanical variance, since eventually someone would come and try to give it a variance and we would repeat this entire circle again. EDIT: Agree with Sherman's points too.

So there are many things and possibilities that would be added if Medical was more research focused? >literally who Hello, hi, me, I have been whining about role restrictions. Also Borya, Hayden, Sherman, Chada have all agreed with me this is a beneficial change and have put their own feedback and spin on it. Not to talk about others who don't play medical perhaps as often but have shown their support nonetheless. >literally who Literally on the thread there is a debate about "what nurses do in real life", in serious discussion people immediately started discussing moon's proposal and "how does this equate to real doctors?", SadKermit in their post said that "We will not get rid of people who are saying that a doctor shouldn't know everything in specialist fields that take 2-4 years to master". There is clearly a basis in this. Stop trying to dismiss the argument just because you're willfully ignorant of it. Yes, people do that. That's why people understand you don't need 3 types of the same doctor to do all those things. Yes, the whole point is to get rid of TP/Physicain, Paramed/EMT, Psychologist/Psychiatrist, the roles that are near identical. Where are the suggestion threads? Where are the issue tickets on github? Where are the github pulls? You know what suggestions threads there are? Rename chems and colors for EMT's You know what issues there are? Medical scanner bug and Surgery implements dropping. (I have not read all 437 issue tickets but I have read the first 5 pages) You know what pulls there are? Two, the previously mentioned med scanner fix and lung collapse. (Yes, I checked the archive too and the policy suggestions.) This is why it looks like "Every non med player" is trying to fix the department rather than "Med players". Because "non-med players" aren't risking getting ostracized when they stick their head out to suggest something to help the department, unlike "med players". Stop sitting in the discord, throwing ideas at a wall, take direct action. If you can come here to disagree with me, you can come here to make a suggestion. I am fixing medbay right here and right now. If you perceive those issues as non-existant, well, I'd recommend reading "Metamorphosis" by Franz Kafka to better understand. While I am glad you have come around and finally agreed there isn't enough mechanical complexity between Physician/TP and Nurse to justify their existence. I am worried that it took 3 days of constant debate to convince you to actually do something about issues you've seemingly been complaining about for months. Still, I am glad something is going to be done nonetheless.

To Preface: In this response I will call my suggestion's role "Biologist". This doesn't mean it's the name chosen. I'm doing it for the ease. Yes, exactly. A Trauma Physician already overlaps with a Physician, a Physician already overlaps with a Surgeon, a Surgeon overlaps with all three. It's needless splitting for the sake of splitting. Plus the fact that literally anyone in medbay bar a resident can treat ANYTHING if a chemist is present isn't a defense, on the contrary, it just shows they only function as healy-juice carriers if a surgeon isn't present. As you said before, cooperation between these three roles is ALREADY optional. Every one of them can fix a patient if a chemist is present because they only function as needle administrators. A Biologist role will be able to choose between needling and operating. It will be able to choose if it wants to assist another biologist or not. It doesn't strip away the cooperation, it just gives everyone the option to cooperate, rather than forcing a few members to be subserviently cooperative to the ones with a better skillset. The amount of operating doctors is already limited by the amount of OR's present. Their choice is not going to be limited by an arbitrary chart people made up, their choice is going to be limited by the tools at hand. Additionally, a Biologist is not going to be as useful as the chemist on board, a Biologist is going to be useful on his own. There aren't clear boundaries. That was demonstrated because people have to make entire charts and explanations in order to even understand what they're allowed and not allowed to do. There has been a suggestion by @Chada1 to split Biologist into Medical Physician (Nurse/Physician/Trauma Physician) and Surgery Expert, this would solve this issue of being too stressed and additionally mine too. Actually, now as I write this I realize it addresses literally every point I replied to. While I personally still don't fully like it and would rather smack surgeon into doctor, it's I think better in every way than what we have. This is already covered in the fact that there is a limited amount of OR's. Frankly, everything you named can be easily achieved by just reducing the amount of OR's to one instead of two and we don't need to have 3 jobs for in order to achieve the same effect. Actually the more we talk, the more I feel like medbay is way too overstocked with tools. The only difference is that, if you're absolutely and completely alone in medbay, you will no longer be a waste of space as a Nurse or a Physician, and feel pressured by others that you should have picked a better role for solo. That's flat out wrong, and I know that because it already happens. I've used this example before, but what is an "Engineer"? What exactly is a "Scientist"? What exactly is a "Miner"? It is ALREADY IN EFFECT and it ALREADY WORKS in EVERY OTHER DEPARTMENT. Absolutely nobody out there is telling me that it's impossible for an engineer to know complex electrical engineering, Supermatter Analytics, Station Infrastructure and perfect bar refurbishing. Don't get me wrong, realism arguments aren't inherently bad. The issue is these job roles exist purely because they exist in real life. If they weren't named doctors from the start, nobody would have split them into 3 roles in the first place. It would have functioned exactly the same as science or engineering. With alt-titles being exactly that, alt-titles. Not alt-jobs. You can't make the argument that "it works for some and not for others", when there is no other example besides medical of this system. And to the point of "if players want it". That's the thing. From what I have seen, I have convinced a good amount of people that this is a good idea after I explained myself. (Again, from what I have seen) People don't start with a "good opinion" by default, opinions are just that, opinions. Do I know this is going to fix what I say it will? No. Do I THINK it's going to fix what I say it will? Yes Departmental security was met with a lot of kicking and screaming from security, yet with plenty of enthusiasm from the same medical players who are jeering at me from the crowd right now. Departmental security was also reverted eventually. I don't see how trying this out would be worse. (besides the fact there are people out there who already decided they hate it, and instead of actually putting up a defense or changing their opinion like a responsible adult, they just leave the conversation and cry about how "nobody listens to them anyways", but this is how this game has always been with every change) There have been plenty of times where more people played science or more people played engineering than medical. In absolutely no way does splitting physician into arbitrary mini-roles somehow fix a population issue. And people play the alt-titles in medical because they're given restrictions and allowances based on some out of game chart. They'd play the alt-titles in engineering if engineers weren't actually allowed to do that much, similalry to physicians. You didn't really elaborate on how exactly medical works just like security, so I took the liberty of explaining it: (spoilered for lenght) To answer your other point: Would it create way more tension if I needed 2 extra people to cuff a single resisting guy? Yes. Would it be beneficial or more fun in any way? I highly doubt it. HRP means HIGH ROLEPLAY i.e HIGH AMOUNT ergo you are expected to be IN CHARACTER at all times. It does not measure how believable the setting itself is. IF we had a server that is a clown school it would still be HRP if you were forced to remain in character at all times. I have no idea how less needless jobs would associate us with being closer to HRP or LRP. Yes, I think this exemplifies it. People "got acquainted with it", the simpler answer is "they got used to it". People got use to working this way and the sunken cost fallacy makes people feel like they wasted their time learning all these superficial charts and memorizing what they can and can't do. Again, if people want to keep cooperating, they can keep cooperating. If we go with Chada's proposal and split Surgeon away from this doctor fusion, it fixes all your issues and most of what I think is an issue. Plus a physician can already treat burns and broken bones, they can do bone surgery. Plus even if they couldn't, you said that doctors can "fix pretty much anything" with a chemist on-board, so I don't see how that discourages cooperation any more than my rework. You say that "people who over-stepped in the past", yet somehow people have had to make entire charts to explain to people what they're supposed to be even doing. You are taking a few veterans you personally know, and using them as an example of how this medical thing works perfectly. But that's exactly the issue, everyone I argue with about how "it's not that complicated" are people who have already memorized every treatment, know every surgery and can mix chems blindfolded. As you said perfectly in your previous point, you have gotten used to it. Maybe it's time to play a different department if you're so bored mechanically, that you need out-of-game rules and charts to restrict you from doing literally everything. Yes, I was told many times in this thread that they're extremely different. But the best people keep giving me is a very broad generalization of "Well a trauma physician handles emergency cases." Let me run you through a test. A man comes bleeding into medbay, he is in critical condition. If there is a Physician, he handles the case and fixes his arteries. A man comes bleeding into medbay, he is in critical condition. If there is a Physician and a Surgeon, he handles the case but the surgeon is fixing his arteries. A man comes bleeding into medbay, he is in critical condition. If there is a Physician, Trauma Physician and a Surgeon, the Trauma Physician handles the case but the surgeon fixes his arteries. A man comes bleeding into medbay, he is in critical condition. If there is a Trauma Physician and a Surgeon, the TP handles the case but the surgeon fixes his arteries. A man comes bleeding into medbay, he is in critical condition. If there is a TP, he handles the case and fixes his arteries. In every case a Physician can handle everything the TP can, except without having to juggle the patient around. If someone's heart doesn't work, the TP is ONLY useful, if there is NO chemist and NO surgeon to provide medicine or surgery specialization. Again, could have been replaced by a doctor if there was a chemist and would have made no difference from a regular physician if there was a surgeon. This is why it's unnecessary. The entire department has to bend all of its functions in order to justify the TP's existence. This is the definition of a Mary Sue, not a "very unique job". Further, yes, why didn't anyone think of mechanically differentiating them? Because they have gotten used to it. Nobody thought about improving things, because they have already gotten used to playing this way. Literally none of those things needed a Trauma Physician. Read that entire annecdote again and tell me how the Trauma Physician was somehow a central figure in it? Anyone could have taken point. Yes, if we made a role called "Security Officer Sergeant", they would take point automatically because people would assume they're in charge, despite having no actual difference in terms of experience, or ability. By turning everyone into a Biologist, ANYONE can take point! That player who did it as TP? He can do it too, except this time more people can be confident about stepping up and saying "No, I don't think we should handle it like this, we should handle it like this", without being immediately shot down by "Well you're not the TP so you don't take charge." Homogenizing the roles INCREASES roleplay, and takes away needless "Let me check the wiki". I can agree with not merging surgeon and physician roles, as I've explained above although I'm still iffy about it. But as I explained above, Nurse/TP/Phys. Psycho/Psychia are un-needed and should be merged. If everyone thinks its such a great idea to differentiate between them using mechanics. If this thread closes and doesn't go through. I will be every single day on the lookout for that promised thread suggesting that mechanical depth. Just so I can jump in and give my support right away,

I'll read all of that when I have the energy to argue. I am simply posting that I am aware of this and to thank you for all the feedback. But before I rest up and get into reading this, I will preface it with this: If there are people out there saying they don't like this change, and they haven't commented, I recommend they comment. If I see someone who hasn't commented, talk about how I didn't listen to them, in discord or game. I will make their Maxilla impact their Sacrum at lightning speed.

1) I agree with your reasoning here. I am not fully set on the roles as you propose them. But yes, people are right that the term "Biologist" isn't culturally as broad as the word "Engineer". Which might cause confusion in new players. 2) I am not sure about the Nurse. While I agree with the Physician and TP. I don't really have enough experience playing Nurses to concretely say if they should be fused or not. 3) Yep, psych is the one role I got the least resistance on fusing. I think most people playing it agree that while the difference between a psychologist and psychiatrist IRL is important. It's un-needed on station. Also don't apologize. I know that changing a department is always scary, I've gone through this too. I also apologize to you and @Roostercat. I got snippy, I didn't mean to get snippy. I just got frustrated.

I had taken feedback and I thought about the interpretations. This is why I have clarified my intentions multiple times, changed the thread name and agreed with both Borya and Hay that the names aren't that good and better ones would be better. What I hadn't taken, is sheer disagreement, which you seem to think is feedback. If I took your "feedback" then I would have closed the thread at this point and agreed with you, I don't agree with you. Further, if you had read the thread you would not have said "it's a change for the sake of change". I have given multiple hours of my life giving people responses and explaining in detail what my intentions are, and then I get told that it's a change for the sake of change? At that point I can't believe you if you say you have read the thread, because you would not have made that claim unless your aim was to try and discredit me based on what you assume is my intent, than what I have proven is my intent. People already have the same role. Tell me exactly how a Trauma Physician and a Doctor don't step on each others toes, despite the fact that they cover 80% of each other's jobs. Tell me exactly how an EMT and a Paramedic don't step on each other's toes besides the fact there is literally no difference between them in-game. Tell me exactly how a medical Resident and a medical Intern aren't stepping on each others toes despite being literally the same job. Nurse is the only job that is arguable and was a poor example for my case, but guess what, even right now people are talking about giving a Nurse more privileges and ergo more overlap with a medical doctor. Because I already answered it to detail above how I think it solves problems. Again, and again, and again, and again. I didn't use Star Trek as an excuse. I used Star Trek as an example.

1) People can go pound sand with their interpretation. The rest was answered above. 2) You can do that RP with this change too. 3) See above. 4) It's not adhered to in other departments. Detaching it will fix it because you can't attribute value to from real-life roles to roles in-game if they don't exist. 5) Already answered all of those. 6) All of our departments are detached from their real-life counterparts and more connected to their sci-fi counterparts. This is a sci-fi universe and by giving it a unique name we can attach our own identity to it. It sets a better precedent. 7) I consider the current medical setup poor. I've explained in detail what it aims to change, read the thread before you post next time. And people can go pound sand with their interpretations.