Eliot Clef Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I've got to say, I don't see why you're so passionate about this either. Yeah, security can be a bummer, but for the most part they're a positive bummer. So, like, what is this criminal RP that you have going on that's so important to you? I want to get a picture of what it is you're doing when security comes barging in. I'm not The Furry, but I can inform you what he's generally doing as Travis Davis: Usually, he'll set up telescience, then set up a crew monitoring computer, and a security camera monitor. This allows him to pull off some really wicked rescues of people (seriously do you know how much longer it takes anybody to retrieve a corpse in space or in a vented area?), but it also allows him to steal from the station really freely and I understand he regularly pilfers an ERT headset from deep space basically as a matter of course. What he usually gets in trouble for to the third degree is helping the wrong person (like Charlie Dove on an antag round) with the wrong task (like robbing the Vault). On a more mundane basis, he gets in trouble for teleporting into places he shouldn't be, like Tech Storage. Sometimes he gets in trouble for domesticating slimes and giving them to departments, but that's kind of a niche thing. I'm sure he'll offer a more comprehensive perspective. When I play Security I've always tried to cut him a break, but man, there's only so much Security can put up with and we eat a lot of I-told-you-so's if we defend somebody and they keep doing whatever it is they're doing to make people angry.
the_furry Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 I've got to say, I don't see why you're so passionate about this either. Yeah, security can be a bummer, but for the most part they're a positive bummer. So, like, what is this criminal RP that you have going on that's so important to you? I want to get a picture of what it is you're doing when security comes barging in. I'd also like to hear what manner of mission/value statement you think would solve this "problem". I'll probably poke holes in it, that's what I do, but it'll make for an interesting discussion and something might come out of it. And, finally, I'd like to... uh... third Baka's suggestion. Play during a busy round as a cadet and get an idea what it's like. Or, if you think you're up to it, play as the AI for a few busy rounds (preferably not consecutively, that's hard), and develop a proper appreciation for the redshirts who run around stopping people from hacking your doors and fucking with your systems. Learn the annoyance of helping to arrest some stupid chucklefuck only to have them out of the brig before you're done running down the next minor crisis. And the boredom of sitting around watching genetics 'cause there are two 30-year-old balds in there and you just know they're going to do something bad. In other words, spend a few rounds trying to make the station work smoothly, and then see how you feel about sentence times. Heh Eliot we have not been on the station together in a while. I actually rarely get into trouble any more but you do outline quite well what I get into trouble for. Now, as for what lady has said. Neb outlined a hasty value statement quite well. I’m sure holes can be poked in it. The idea of a guideline is to give leeway because a perfect rule set cannot exist (a perfect ruleset would end up just being a change to the sop) with a valued guide line the hos can choose to ignore it if needed because of its imperfections. I do have the fear that most hos will choose to ignore a valued guideline but it appears to be the best suggestion for improving the server. I am no longer passionate about this as I have been convinced by you that an sop change is not the best thing for the server. It’s not required that I play as an officer considering I’ve already conceded this point. I am mostly trying to wrap up things. I don’t like when someone says ‘all of my points have been addressed’ when hardly any of them have. At this point I am asking if we should continue this discussion specifically on making a valued guild line for hos’ to follow or not.
Eliot Clef Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Heh Eliot we have not been on the station together in a while. I actually rarely get into trouble any more but you do outline quite well what I get into trouble for. I've been playing less and watching more lately, and many of my rounds were on Takeji Hiraga, CSI or Detective. So I've been around, and I've seen you doing stuff from ghost, but I haven't been interacting with you directly as much.
Lady_of_Ravens Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Ahh, telescience, the home of the mathematically inclined delinquent. All this talk about quality RP and what you're getting busted for is just goofing off and abusing the science department? In fact, I'm pretty sure I remember Travis Davis being part of the two or three crew (not antags) who kidnapped the fucking CMO and welded telescience shut. My memory can be a bit spotty, but I remember that name... the last four letters being shared in the first and last are pretty distinctive. But even if you weren't in on that (or the chapel being filled with monkeys), I'm really disappointed that this is the oh-so-important RP you don't like sec crashing. Because it's sounding a lot like you think that the rules shouldn't really apply to you, and that the restrictions on the sort of delinquency you like to be involved with ought to be loosened. But trespassing in secure areas, theft, and stealing potentially dangerous animals from xenobiology to hand out as pets... these are not large crimes, but they are the kind of thing that should get your character terminated. Or, at the very least, demoted and barred from working in telescience or xenobio. But since every round pretty much gives you a clean slate, you can totally ignore all that. And, btw, when I was talking about aurora being a work release program for the criminally delinquent... I was talking about people like you. Same with the part about the longer brig times to keep delinquents out of circulation for as long as possible. And if I'm blurring the line between IC and OOC a little by saying "you" and not "your character", that's because you're the one taking advantage of the lack of real long-term consequences to play your character in an unrealistic way.
Guest Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 All of this talk reminds me of the Shirtless Scott (not to be mixed with Sarah Scott). When I started playing captain, there was a cargo tech/officer/assistant called Red Scott. He always rolled his shirt down, deciding that showing your wracking abbs was more important than following rules on indecent exposure. After being detained for it many, many times and demoted/terminated over 3 consecutive rounds he continued to 'hold on to his principles'. This chucklefuckery continue over the next several days until they finnaly got bored and stopped coming to the server. Why I'm typing this and how it connects to this tread, you decide, but generally, this is something that every security officer had to deal with at some point. The question always was: Is it okay ICly to terminate or permabrig someone for things like this?
SgtSammac Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 All of this talk reminds me of the Shirtless Scott (not to be mixed with Sarah Scott). When I started playing captain, there was a cargo tech/officer/assistant called Red Scott. He always rolled his shirt down, deciding that showing your wracking abbs was more important than following rules on indecent exposure. After being detained for it many, many times and demoted/terminated over 3 consecutive rounds he continued to 'hold on to his principles'. That sounds like, no offence, a really extreme depiction of "Indecent Exposure", baring in mind I consider indecent exposure as a crime to be female staff members baring their upper torso, and any crewmember baring whats between the legs. Not just rolling a shirt down in general. BUT... I wasn't there so obviously I can't explicitly judge the actions taken. Anyway... thats heading off topic so for me, back on topic: I personally am of the opinion that the brig times do not need changing, but indeed methods of handling smaller crimes need to be improved. I.e. for the minor crimes this is already on the corporate regs but never widely enforced - PAY CUTS/DOCKS/DEDUCTIONS/FINES - They are there in the SOP/Corporate Regs, USE THEM. Stops you needing to completely drag someone out of a round for 2-10 minutes.
Lady_of_Ravens Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 That's a lot of things. Failure to follow the dress code, probably failure to execute an order (once told to follow the dress code), failure to be a mature adult... but it's not indecent exposure. If it was, basically every movie which takes place in California would be X-rated. But back on topic, though... fines. They're a great idea, but people who don't respect brig time are going to respect fines even less. So really, while they'd make for interesting RP for some situations, particularly ones where someone might otherwise just be let off with a warning, it's not going to have any appreciable effect on, like, for-realsies miscreants.
Guest Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 In my country, if you're a male or a female, you're not allowed to walk around shirtless around town. Being shirtless includes most of your chest being exposed, including going around in a bra. However, women are allowed to be topless on the beach, so there is that. When an area where people work, eat and shop is in question, you're expected to follow a simple dressing code. I still say that it qualifies as an indecent exposure.
Lady_of_Ravens Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Ahhh... but everyone knows SS13 takes place in Space 'Murica, where men can prance around in public with no shirt... and so can women, if they have pasties on their nipples! Mind you, you can't go to work topless (most places), but that's a violation of dress code, not indecent exposure.
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