nbielinski

My point exactly, we seem to have TONS of evidence of engineers not setting up their own little security task force at the start of the shift, but for some reason we seem to be running the opposing side of the argument on the basis that of a few people feeling that engineering armed themselves too well a few times, and somehow that has become common place.

Erm, just gonna pop in and say a lot of these claims seem out right insane. Personally, I play atmospheric tech every round I am on. And sure that means I'm not sitting in the engineering lobby 24/7 but it means I can take a peek. And a lot of the claims of, "They prepare weapons RIGHT at the shift start." Seem to relate to someone observing and ten minutes after things go to shit see one or two engineers start to prepare weaponry. Now I'm not saying its a bad thing or its a good thing I'm just saying it happens. But claiming that the entire department and every engineer seems itching to make a flamethrower or stun gloves seems a bit ludicrous. Many, many, MANY rounds. Hell even rounds where the antags are banging at the door of engineering, but rarely do they arm themselves "to the teeth" as you put it and prepare themselves for war. Now of course there are exceptions, rounds where there is no CE or sane engineer to guide those more violent on the correct path. And sure those incidents happen. But we have to remember, that there have also been rounds where nuke ops organize DnD games and the crew arms themselves with shotguns. Honestly, we've all seen a lot worse. Though don't mistake me for condoning this. I'm simply stating that it seems this argument stems from a few little pebbles that have sprung up in the road and they're being revisited with a magnifying glass. In doing so we've made it seem as though every engineer carries stun gloves and a metal bat, which is simply not the case. Nor is it the case that engineering arms themselves like a militia and prepares for war without a really good damn reason (I.E Security has died off in a 5 bomb explosion and the crew is going mad..and yes..that has happened..) and defense is needed. I'm somewhat surprised this idea is being visited though with such an introduction. I pose a challenge, show me the round where engineering (and I mean all of them as you put it) made bats and stun gloves and other weapons and placed them in plain view within 10 minutes of the round starting. And by Cthulhu I will eat my own shoes.

While its true that techie's might get a bit over zealous and sure they might take up engineering jobs. But in many cases it seems to be the issue of engineers being busy or engineers not being willing to spread equipment and let atmospheric techs do the job. And from personal experience I've seen atmospheric techs given full engineering equipment and despite this all none of them tries to enact themselves as the supreme being of engineering. Rather they seem to work better as a team, one whole unit able to work well and even replace wounded individuals in the line of work. The equipment that separates the two jobs might even be seen as hindering progress but I digress. I find it somewhat iffy to say that an atmospheric technician wouldn't know jack about electrical systems, just, seems a bit odd that a person who is trained to make sure that the system of airflow in the station doesn't get KO'd and fuck up, wouldn't understand or have the access to using a multitool (which is given to atmospheric techs at the start of shifts as well) and a pair of insulated gloves if the case gets dirty.

While a few of your suggestions seem to make atmospherics techs a watered down version of engineers, I can say in full honesty that doesn't sound too bad. Atmospheric technicians work generally shoulder to shoulder with engineers the only difference being we fill rooms and they build them. And more often than not the lines are blurred and atmospheric technicians must repair walls and build rooms side by side with engineers. There is a reason atmospheric technicians start with more tools than just a wrench, and there is a reason they begin with metal. I like these suggestions, atmospherics in general gets good upgrades and looks like a rather attractive system to work with but I wouldn't mind if atmospheric technicians got a bit of a leg up. As in many cases we must scavenge and scrounge up equipment or ask engineers.

I agree, its amazingly and delighting to see how well a person and character can change, and I agree that its obviously not, "Oh dear this person is a dick. Ban" but rather it seems to be more than just an issue with a character, but an issue with the character and the player. Just my take on the issue, I have to go get drugs jammed into my jaw and get operated on so I'm going to shut up for a short while. <3

This is a correlative fallacy. Well then in that way of thinking, there seems to be some kind of OOC opposition to it? A character constantly being rude and cruel without reason or rhyme regardless of situation, seems to be not an IC issues considering IC, characters are bound to change, to adapt and to have varying feelings besides, "lolfuckyou." To be seen as wanting to change the entire server is just a misappropriation. The rules and principles of the server seem more than fair, they have done right by me and others for a long while now. From my point of view, and from the point of view of several others, we simply want those rules and principles to be enforced. And concerning the one line you quoted from me, its a simplification seeing as how I was not involved and was not privy to the events of the issue. Referencing an issue that has occurred and shortening it, as it were.

The fact of the matter seems to be that there is something here that causes people to feel unwelcome or unwell in the server, I count at least five people here who have said. "This person and their actions has directly caused me to avoid her or do something I normally wouldn't to avoid being around her" And the counter argument just seems to be a repeating of, "They're allowed to do what they want to because it produces RP" and of course that does produce some type of RP. But as seen with a new player who just came in and automatically gets stun batoned into a corner for sitting on a cargo tug, its clearly not RP that is going to net new players and make the community seem welcoming. And on that note might I remind everyone of the spree of forum posts that came not too long ago? How people seemed to be up in arms that the community is not welcoming to people, that we all seem like a bed of barbed wire, not someplace you'd like to rest. Well if we continue to let poor moods and characters that are angry and constantly show nothing but hate to one another persist, well sure it might produce a realistic view of the station if it were set in a land of nothing but sorrow, but it will also dampen any feelings someone might have that this place is someplace they can stay and be welcomed. And simply, I just want to see someone held accountable for managing to piss more than a few people off. The way it seems to be is as follows: if something breaks, you fix it. You don't live with a rock in your shoe just because the rock has a good enough reason to be there.

The problem is that you guys were in space, and you pretty clearly came at her holding a weapon, so there's not much that could've been done. You can communicate in an atmosphere, and I have indeed seen Sue, as an armed antag, communicate with armed members of the crew without resorting to hostilities. But in this case, she could not have guessed your intent. You see the friend of the person you just killed come at you with a weapon, the general assumption is that they are out for revenge. Well that's just the thing, revenge KILLING, because let us not split hairs here. You don't walk back to the crime scene expecting flowers and hugs when you're toting a gun you just used to kill someone. The revenge KILLING and murder of at least one person, is highly unneeded, and the actions taken by the Vox seemed to have several attempts to leave, many many tries where they could have left and gone on about their daily business. But as stated in your, I think third argument that was dismissed, the Vox chose to come back and try and start conflict. Ganking, which, as you stated, is not at all how things should be handled. Throughout the entirety of this forum the back and forth comes to somewhat of a consensus that if the Vox had run and actually chosen not to keep trying to pick off crew, things would have worked out better and maybe RP could have gone through. But the issue seemed to be that the Vox simply couldn't help himself/herself from shooting another engineer. And if randomly starting a fight with someone else, rather, not starting a fight but gunning someone down for the sheer joy of gunning someone down isn't at least punishable by a warning or antag ban. I don't know what is.

As stated by several people prior, the issue seems not to be that antags kill people, honestly that's like telling someone that soldiers kill people and expecting them to be surprised, the issue is that the people in question seem to berate and be generally hostile constantly. Now I don't know about you but being stuck in what is equated to a deep space submarine, having someone around who is constantly mean and constantly irrationally cruel to people, well it just doesn't fit.

I concur with Sierra, the entire debate has been derailed and burned. No sense in replying to any of it now. Thank you all for your time.

Frances, as we have stated in other complaints, there seems to be the overwhelming issue where people think that this is an OOC witch hunt. Which is not the case what so ever. You state that ganking and being a poor roleplay as a bad thing that should be punished. Yet in the thread we had created yesterday, that was just the issue. Someone running up and killing two crew members indiscriminately. Now don't get me wrong, I love to debate and try and solve an issue but it feels we've gotten to the point where the argument against action being taken is simply, "Because instinct/fear/plans/ideas were being played out and it just ended with people killing eachother."

I'm not going to get involved too much here but can I just note that this is a character who not only took over the station because, "Security was being bad" but also managed to free several armed intruders who had shot a miner and were stealing from the station. His actions also lead to the destruction of the atmospheric system, as well as the deaths of 2+ people. Its not that I expect perfection, I just hold it deep in my heart that if the enemy has a pistol to my neck, the heads aren't going to pull the hammer back and tell them to fire away.

Yet you were still there as well, weren't you? There was nothing wrong with the calls from an OOC perspective. The call to save Stefan obviously made sense, and the one by Sue to recover the body was actually made with the intent to spark more conflict - to which I'd say conflict was indeed sparked, in a way that was perfectly admissible. OOCly, you don't in fact recover a random body so you can sit with it alone in the Vox Skipjack at round end while doing nothing, you do it in the hope that it'll rile up the crew and cause some trouble. Frances I for one love this debate, but I think you're missing one integral part here. Stefan was NAILED TO A WALL. So as the explosions rained all he could do was scream and cry for help as a few more bolts were jammed into his body. While on the other hand the vox could have run off asap. None the less, as you stated there is indeed no reason to pluck a dead body from the mouths of rats so you can ogle it like a psychopath. And in doing so we come around and hit my argument straight on the head. The vox was not coming back to retrieve my body, as was originally stated by your side of the argument, but it was in fact coming back to hopefully pick off more crew. And that is where my issues stems with this. If it was indeed just an effort to come back and pick off crew members. Well that is just attacking to attack, no real reason besides some violence fueled spike throwing match off. Then, well let me explain something, the purpose of any antagonist effort, whether it be kidnapping an atmospheric tech to flood the station. Or killing the chef in the gibber to take their place. Or even to beat to death an assistant just to pin it on someone else. Is all in the effort of some goal of the antagonist. What occurred today was not an example of that. What occurred next to the singularity was an act of death to cause death, murder to promote more murder. And that, is what might simply be called, ganking. For lack of a better word of course. And ganking, as is known throughout the server is something you, I, Sue, Sierra, anyone really, disagrees with as it pulls away from someones chance to RP and promote "good rp" for lack of a better term. In short, unless you're deathsquad, to kill for the simple fact that you might be able to kill again, is a showing of poor ability to RP and a poor ability to play as an antagonist. Just on a side note, as I am unsure and have been getting a varied number of reportings. I would like to ask the admin team inspect the claim that the killing of the IPC was after the rounds near ending was called. And the possibility that it could be considered round grief. Again, not saying that it was round grief. Just trying to clear it up. --End of Nibbles Replies 4/14/15. Gotta go get Novocaine shoved into my jaw tomorrow so I will be resting now. Goodnight to all involved. I will reply as soon as possible tomorrow. Thank you. Goodnight.-

No Frances it is not a crowded hallway, rather it was a completely open patch of station without any shielding slowly coming under fire from meteorites. Sue, Jamini and hell anyone involved can tell you that just prior to Stefan getting offed, the lowest tank of the right hand side of the atmospherics windows got blown open. Even more a reason to run. And frankly, I know the Vox are not meant to be experts in the whole..humans..thing. But if that is true, and the Vox did not understand that humans would be coming to the rescue (highly unlikely) then how did that Vox know the CE was of importance, and how did the Vox know that if they cut off that particular tank from the station, that no fresh air would come in? I'm sorry to say that it seems too unlikely that the Vox would be unaware of human customs to, "Save the motherfucker who is screaming for help" but be aware of not only the ranking of individuals onboard the station, as well as the layout of how air intake was designed. What exactly are antags supposed to do, then? Both of these seem like fairly reasonable roleplaying scenarios, which are free to develop in a multitude of interesting ways. I feel like saying antags can't kidnap crew or severely sabotage the station heavily limits the amount of actions available to them. Again, you misinterpret my meaning. I am not saying the Vox SHOULDN'T do this. I am saying how could the Vox DO all of this and still be ignorant of the fact that maybe the creature they have just speared through the chest that was screaming over the same frequency they were using ten minutes ago to harass the crew about the loss of their oxygen system, might have just attracted attention. You simply can't CHOSE to be ignorant and still remain knowledgeable of other situation opportunities.

Oh and before I rest, seeing as how I might not be able to respond tomorrow, I wish to clear this up. The Vox, had just taken our air supply. Not just the air pumps or anything. But the ENTIRE supply of fresh air to the station. Regardless of whether or not the station was inches from the calling of a shuttle, the Vox had essentially placed a vice around the throat of the station with a timer on it to close ever so slowly each time there was a breach or a room needed to be filled. Engineering was out fixing the tank that had been broken into. Thats when the Vox jumped us and tried to sleep dart us for the "lolprisoner" antag plan that has become very popular. Engineering didn't really start the fight, just so there is no mis-communication.

So Katana shows up, weapon in hand, in space, coming to the very location where one of his(her? idk, sorry) fellow engineers has just been killed after engaging a Vox in combat. Said Vox is still around, hoping to recover the body themselves, and sees a second engineer coming with a crossbow and unknown intent. Why exactly should that Vox not have attacked? Well I wish to thank you Frances, I know it might seem tedious to respond and defend at every stage but this is how things get worked out. And its not that the Vox killed Oliver, its the fact that the Vox stayed around after this. As I said it was SOME time after Oliver had been gunned down, as we all know it takes some time from someone to die, and even after ghosting my character screamed for the a good few minutes. Till death. And I feel you miss my point, I am simply stating that this tactic seemed to be baiting. Shooting one poor bastard in the gut and leaving him to scream pleas for help then running behind cover to pop the head off the next poor bastard that comes looking. Whether or not Sierra had a gun is irrelevant at the time. I know that the Vox had a radio. I know the vox stayed nearby and I damn sure know the Vox heard Stefan scream at the top of his one working lung, "GPS. GPS. Goddamn it GPS." Meaning that intentionally or not, there was the knowledge that SOMEONE would come looking. I take that personally not as the Vox was running off to hopefully lose the tail she/he had just gained, I take that as: The vox has just shot a man to death, purposefully or not, and others have been informed. And might I remind those reading that just at this point, an alarm for meteorites was called. Even more a reason to leave the dying Stefan to bleed out in his suit and head back to the shuttle. Personally I see it as less the Vox was caught unprepared, more as they attempted to train their sights on the next person incoming. And just as a final note. Frances, you mentioned that the Vox was still around hoping to recover Stefans body from the site for some odd reason. But, as I said, after a few moments passed and Stefan died out. Enough time for the IPC to find the GPS location (A fucking hard job to do if you've ever had to navigate via GPS) the Vox attacked. Now just to reitterate, you said that the Vox wanted to take Stefans corpse. But in this picture. http://postimg.org/image/koszxbnkr/ Even after the several minutes between attacks. Stefans body is still in the same spot, nailed to the wall. Right next to the IPC.

I must concur on this fact, and this does not mean I say Oliver was without fault. He did indeed go after the vox for a short time to hopefully drive them off from stealing more air. The vox apparently thought that atmospherics grief in stopping fresh air from getting into the systems was a good idea. None the less my character had just done a sweep of the area and I was slowly pulling myself back with the aid of Nasir K. as a rod had been sticking out of my chest. Shortly after, I saw and attempted to push the vox off, hopefully back into space. And they seemed to have run off. I then turned to leave and suddenly the vox came back around the corner with another weapon, and this time shot and pinned me to the wall. To which I screamed for help and promptly went crit. There I died and after ghosting it seemed the vox remained around my body. Now I am no military strategist, but this is usually what occurs when a sniper lays in wait near the body of an enemy in the hopes of picking off more of the enemy force. And in my death, this did happen as Miss Sierras' character came and promptly attempted to pull my corpse back inside only to hit by a hail of rods and being pinned to walls. I have a small pic of the issue in question here: http://postimg.org/image/koszxbnkr/ In which we can clearly see that not only has the engineer been shot in the same position as Oliver, but will be shot several more times and die there. And before the question is raised, as I recall once I died I was able to message about four people, get responses, and even start a new youtube track before Sierras' character came forth to try and rescue me. So I doubt there is coincidence in this. I will attempt not to make presumptions in this but it is difficult as Miss Sue seems to have a history of somewhat cruel characters who break the line between duty and being cruel, and seem to have a pension for wanton cruelty, anger, and inhumanity towards others. Herein lies the issue, of course there might be reasons, traumatic events and issues that have caused a brash attitude. But then there comes the question as to where the line stands between having a character who is slightly mean and often times not caring to the feelings of others, and a character who takes any chance they can get to, simply put, beat the shit out of other people.

I managed to mod my game to the point where I had robots working most of the jobs my colonists needed to, they all ended up idle. So in the night I had all my colonists shot by the solider-bots and replaced them all with emotionless, thoughtless, painless borgs..does that make me a bad person?

As I recall this is at one point, a way Stefan managed to die was a doc ODing him in a tube. So yea. Might wanna curb it. -From Nibbles with love.

I tried to RP with Empress during a mutiny round. She called me scum then never accepted my request for friendship.. I cried that night.. Just kidding, but Empress, well to me personally, has done not a whole lot to be seen as negative or positive for that matter. She's not really nuked the station and she's never really single handedly saved us from a nuke. Not saying I don't adore having her around, in reality she is better than many other AI's I had the displeasure of working with. But she's just sort of..there...a great addition, but there none the less. And I think nuke ops and traitors and asshats realize this and go for targets easier to hit and easier to offend and cause a reaction out of.

Although his existence is birthed from a character I somewhat dislike, Sirasairot is a rather fun CE aside from being Unathi, he somewhat breaks the chain of, "Oh Unathi, gotta be a dick." That has become common place..though I have to admit I did not know much of him for a long time. So I thought he was a female. I know I'm going to open up a can of worms here, but. Opinions on Oliver Stefan?

I +1 this application not just because the player is amazing, and they have an intelligence above many other of her peers, but also because she shows a willingness to adapt and greet new faces with confidence, something that has been lacking reccently

Oliver Stefan... ....had almost no formal education ....learned atmospherics through on the job pain and suffering ....is an ex deckhand ....is surprisingly spry for having a crippled respiratory system ....is rather friendly if you approach him with good intentions ....has been hurt more than once from this issue ....is not even close to handsome under his mask ....will die within 15 minutes of having his mask removed ....defends this weakness with his life ....is awful with alcohol, being easy to anger when drunk, but surprisingly flirtatious and frisky when just s

+1. Just cuz I said so. And cuz Sierra is like a 10/10 RP'er dawg. (I'm sorry I am very tired and wish to request that Miss Sierra get her own item seeing as how her character seems unique and interesting enough to have earned one.)