Lady_of_Ravens

Very short restrictions on most jobs would be pretty cool... especially if it's clear that it's short so new people aren't discouraged. Particularly for jobs favored by griefers, like engineer, geneticist and scientist, where showing up new, 30-years-old and bald means being subject to extra scrutiny by concerned players.

It took me a while to get used to the fact that "Ban Him!" is a regular joke around here... and as often said about mods/admins as players. But then I got used to it, so whatever.

Okay, so I'm working on a guide for playing the AI on this station, both in terms of technical and RP stuff... so, I thought I'd solicit input on what people think makes for a good AI.

No no no, the death sentence thing was a joke. Laugh, goddamn you. LAUGH OR IT'S THE AIRLOCK FOR YOU! But they are right those are pretty fireable offenses. You're also right that competent telescientists are a valuable commodity, however. So perhaps the company sent him to some manner of rehabilitation program and gave him another chance...

"Your honor, due to extenuating circumstances the prosecution has decided not to pursue the death penalty in the case of Everyone vs. Travis Davis." I like that you're trying to take responsibility for the various things you've had Travis Davis do, but I'm not sure this is the best way... you know, unless you plan on joining the crew as a janitor from now on. If I were you I'd accept the non-cannonness of your character's past crimes and strive to do better in the future. We all fuck up and do stupid shit from time to time, what matters is getting better about it.

I've played malf several times, most of them at least relatively peaceful, and even so it usually ends with code delta. I don't blow up the nuke 'cause why the hell do that, but it's still a big fat game over for everyone... following a huge panicfest when delta is activated. And even when I've been totally peaceful, people usually end up cutting the AI control wires on hacked APCs... sometimes before they have any IC reason to think it's the AI... just, you know, cutting them seems to fix the "problem" so lets cut them all. The result is that as soon as people start cutting wires you have a limited window in which you can safely go delta before you've lost too many APCs and run a serious risk of being stormed by security before you can take over the station. The result is generally a short round as the AI feels pressure to push for delta before getting slaughtered by crew. And that's not really fun for anyone. As such I'd suggest that the current implementation be changed so that it has nothing to do with the nuke (which, btw, we probably wouldn't need to have around anymore with the changes to nuke rounds), and instead simply gives the AI the ability to function without it's core. That way the AI can delta, feel safe, and the RP can go on.

Really? I thought the space wizards were space wizards with spells they learn out of a book and magical clothes and all the nonsense that entails. Similar to the space vampires (who don't do so well in space). I know a lot of people play space wizards as augmented, or being from the future, or any of a variety of different things... and people not playing as space wizards or chaplains pretty much always assume there's a technological reason for their powers 'cause nobody believes in space magic. But space magic is real, just ask the cult of Nar'Sie.

Oooh, that could help a lot. Though I'm also very for temporary job bans for people who routinely play delinquents.

Simple. Brutal. Effective. I like it. A lot of people won't, but I do. XD

You've probably noticed that a lot of people take advantage of the fact that they can ignore every bad thing they did last round to get demoted, permabrigged, executed, et cetera, to engage in highly questionable criminal RP. The sort that's stupid and disruptive, like using telescience to steal or kidnap people, or growing hallucinogens in hydroponics, or any of a variety of other petty mischiefs which they might get up to because they know, OOCly, that all consequences go away at the end of the round. I find this to be annoying, both because it's a bother to deal with, and because it's just plain bad RP. However I also recognize the importance of voiding stuff like, say, being a revolutionary or traitor... not to mention knowledge of syndie gear and the likes. And I'm all for giving people who don't know better second chances (after all, chaos and delinquency are perfectly normal and acceptable on some servers)... I just don't like how it results in people playing characters who have no respect for the consequences of their actions and do the same shit round after round. Unfortunately, I don't have a clear solution to this problem. Harsher (by which I mean less amazingly lax) sentences for crimes would be a place to start... if nothing else, it keeps the miscreants out of circulation for a while, and I don't know of anyone who likes being in the brig OOCly. But this still doesn't address the lack of long-term consequences, and the general miscreantism that it causes. As such, I'd like to ask my fellow opinionated people for ideas to help with this. People who think the rules shouldn't apply to them need not respond.

For wizards... yeah, the loyalty implant should probably apply. Body switching is dangerous if you don't know what you're getting into. For syndie agents... these guys are pretty hardcore. Why not give them an implant that kills them if you loyalty implant them... or if you try to remove it? Revs and cultists can suck it, though... they're able to recruit new people.

Lady_of_Ravens EmPrESS - A polite, efficient, and generally well-liked AI with a language-based core module and a general dislike of mice, intoxication, and religion.

Ahhh... but everyone knows SS13 takes place in Space 'Murica, where men can prance around in public with no shirt... and so can women, if they have pasties on their nipples! Mind you, you can't go to work topless (most places), but that's a violation of dress code, not indecent exposure.

EmPrESS is reminding Conservator Xullie not to smoke while handling plasma... again.

That's a lot of things. Failure to follow the dress code, probably failure to execute an order (once told to follow the dress code), failure to be a mature adult... but it's not indecent exposure. If it was, basically every movie which takes place in California would be X-rated. But back on topic, though... fines. They're a great idea, but people who don't respect brig time are going to respect fines even less. So really, while they'd make for interesting RP for some situations, particularly ones where someone might otherwise just be let off with a warning, it's not going to have any appreciable effect on, like, for-realsies miscreants.

Yes. This.

As someone who has an atrocious memory for people (and names), I like this idea. Not sure it's a good one, but I like it.

Ahh, telescience, the home of the mathematically inclined delinquent. All this talk about quality RP and what you're getting busted for is just goofing off and abusing the science department? In fact, I'm pretty sure I remember Travis Davis being part of the two or three crew (not antags) who kidnapped the fucking CMO and welded telescience shut. My memory can be a bit spotty, but I remember that name... the last four letters being shared in the first and last are pretty distinctive. But even if you weren't in on that (or the chapel being filled with monkeys), I'm really disappointed that this is the oh-so-important RP you don't like sec crashing. Because it's sounding a lot like you think that the rules shouldn't really apply to you, and that the restrictions on the sort of delinquency you like to be involved with ought to be loosened. But trespassing in secure areas, theft, and stealing potentially dangerous animals from xenobiology to hand out as pets... these are not large crimes, but they are the kind of thing that should get your character terminated. Or, at the very least, demoted and barred from working in telescience or xenobio. But since every round pretty much gives you a clean slate, you can totally ignore all that. And, btw, when I was talking about aurora being a work release program for the criminally delinquent... I was talking about people like you. Same with the part about the longer brig times to keep delinquents out of circulation for as long as possible. And if I'm blurring the line between IC and OOC a little by saying "you" and not "your character", that's because you're the one taking advantage of the lack of real long-term consequences to play your character in an unrealistic way.

I've got to say, I don't see why you're so passionate about this either. Yeah, security can be a bummer, but for the most part they're a positive bummer. So, like, what is this criminal RP that you have going on that's so important to you? I want to get a picture of what it is you're doing when security comes barging in. I'd also like to hear what manner of mission/value statement you think would solve this "problem". I'll probably poke holes in it, that's what I do, but it'll make for an interesting discussion and something might come out of it. And, finally, I'd like to... uh... third Baka's suggestion. Play during a busy round as a cadet and get an idea what it's like. Or, if you think you're up to it, play as the AI for a few busy rounds (preferably not consecutively, that's hard), and develop a proper appreciation for the redshirts who run around stopping people from hacking your doors and fucking with your systems. Learn the annoyance of helping to arrest some stupid chucklefuck only to have them out of the brig before you're done running down the next minor crisis. And the boredom of sitting around watching genetics 'cause there are two 30-year-old balds in there and you just know they're going to do something bad. In other words, spend a few rounds trying to make the station work smoothly, and then see how you feel about sentence times.

Well, actually I play as much during dead hours as the more lively ones, perhaps more so, but I'll grant that my opinion of aurora as a dumping ground is more heavily influenced by the more active rounds. I also play the AI pretty much exclusively, so I have a bit of a detached perspective... but that also means I'm involved in most security actions as a matter of course. So while I may not always approve of every security officer or action, I'm inclined to like them going about breaking up criminal RP because that's their RP. And because it helps the station run better when rules are enforced, and when the people breaking them are kept out of circulation... at least for a while. You've conceptualized being brigged as an end (or at least lengthy pause) to RP. This is not so... or at least it shouldn't be. If you're stuck in a cell in the brig, RP being stuck in a cell in the brig. No, it probably doesn't involve a lot of social interaction, but RPing is about more than typing and interacting. Saying nothing can be as much RPing as filling the screen with detailed emotes. Sometimes it's because your character's personality is such that they wouldn't say or do anything (EmPrESS often completely ignores arguments and personal attacks, for example), and sometimes it's because your character's personality has put them in a situation where they can't do anything. Instead of being bored, use it as an opportunity to get inside your character's head, think what they'd be thinking about while waiting in a cell. So, from this perspective, I can't really agree with any of your suggestions. Even if they were practical, which they really aren't. The different rules at different times thing makes some sense... except that it'd be weird during a shift (do the rules change mid shift or only change at shift change... either way would be confusing), and make very little sense ICly... oh, and it limits RP. If security wants to be more relaxed during dead hours, that's their business, and should be based on their characters. Some officers and HOSes are pretty chill, others have lengths of disposal pipe up their asses... that's their character, and their RP. The whilelist... well, two words: "Admin favoritism". And two more: "double standard". Plus it'd be a horrible PITA ICly having to check if someone is on a list of people with special privileges, especially when their presence on the list would be unrelated to anything IC. Now, the idea that the HOS or Captain might sweep a small offense under the rug to protect a valuable crewmember or avoid embarrassment makes sense. And, often enough, small offenses by heads of staff are overlooked. Sometimes not so small ones, but that's a different issue... In any case, I don't see how making a policy of sweeping small crimes under the rug would have any effect other than to encourage small crimes. There's not even a small amount of brig time involved if it's being ignored. And, like fines, the problems associated with being out of favor with your boss or coworkers generally ends with the shift. So, yeah, if you can't RP doing the time, don't play someone who would do the crime. On a more favorable note, longer brig times would mean having a better chance of having someone to RP with while your stuck there. XD

I very, very much agree. People have trouble RPing not knowing stuff that seems like common knowledge 'cause they've done it again and again and again (there's a reason I stopped doing R&D, and not just 'cause of the sometimes toxic environment). We deal with this with antags by having rules requiring that nothing about them is remembered, but this seems like a poor way of dealing with R&D... not the least because a lot of stuff from the protolathe should be common knowledge. Mining drills, enhanced power cells, meson scanners, and so-on are all standard things people are going to know about and want, but which have to be 'researched' first. As a game mechanic it makes sense, as a way of promoting RP it kinda sucks.

Yeah, I like the ones Dea posted better too. They look like actual cigar boxes, rather than a cigarette case, which is what Baka's look like.

First off, I'm not saying that your suggestion will turn aurora into a haven for criminals and delinquents, I'm saying that it already is one and your idea, while not without some merit, would make it worse. Harsh punishments do limit RP. They're supposed to, as are many, many other parts of the game. Unlimited RP would be a disaster, resulting in the horrible mix of snowflakes and super geniuses who know every system on the station. And while absurdly low brig times aren't quite on the same level of horrible, they do move the server a little further in that direction. So what I would ask you, is how does the sort of criminal RP you seem to be interested in increase the quality (not quantity) of the RP or the immersion of the players? I should point out a thread a while ago in the general forum suggested that a large percentage of the player base already consider aurora to be a dumping ground for the incompetent and maladjusted... and that those who don't are simply better at suspending their disbelief.

Well, yes, RP is escapist fantasy... and I want to escape to a fantasy where aurora isn't a work-release program for the criminally delinquent. Excellent RP isn't about playing whatever you want and damn the setting... people who do that get called snowflakes. Excellent RP is about playing a believable character who fits well (or fits poorly in a makes-sense sort of way) with the setting and environment. If you want your character to be a drug dealer, or a hooker, or a gangster, play them as an off-station dealer/hooker/gangster who does little to none of their business at work. Like the Jawdats. I know many of us work hard to make coherent, setting-appropriate characters. And you have no idea how many times I miss out on doing fun stuff, or getting into interesting arguments, or just spacing someone, 'cause I know it's not what my character would do. And while there are times when, say, assaulting someone is good RP... going to the brig for it is also good RP.

If the time was originally a pathetic 2 minutes, I'm suggesting it be changed to 4 minutes and if you're nice and it's the first time you'd get 2 minutes. And maybe 3 minutes if it happens again and you cooperate and it's a minor thing. Because while I agree with your psychology, I also think the brig times are dramatically too short for most things. Yeah, nobody likes being brigged, but I'm okay with that because the crime rate among the crew is absurdly high and there's no reason to encourage criminal RP. Like with the drug dealer. Yeah, it's possible to play a drug dealer who comes to work, mixes drugs, and sells them to their fellow employees... but how realistic is that? And how realistic is it that NT would put up with it once they got caught? And don't even get me started on actually violent crimes.