MalMalumam

>Bring back infections! Bring back hygiene! Yee. This'd be cool. Though do keep in mind verisimilitude. Most non-immune-compromised people in modern nations don't get random infections often, especially if they're younger/healthier. Though maybe spessmen are chronically immune-compromised, idk? But handling raw meat and unwashed produce, letting it sit out in warm temps, handling food while sick as a chef, getting oil and blood and ash and vomit all over you and not cleaning it off, small scrapes and cuts, etc... that's all stuff that should realistically cause infection. And hey, people do sometimes get random infections from other things. Just not very often. >Less occurrence of surgical fixes, but also more varied ones! 10-20 rounds is still pretty high. Perhaps up the odds on extended rounds, specifically, and lower them on non-extended rounds? Make them a random event, essentially. Also remember that not all life-saving RP is surgery - make sure there's stuff for physicians and chemists to do, perhaps? >Job related medical issues! Don't worry about how difficult things are to code. Some things are, some things aren't, sometimes you don't really know how hard it's gonna be until you dive in, and to the average non-coder Joe, it's even more opaque to try to figure out how hard something is to code. That being said - yeah, physical exertion injury should defs be a thing. Seriously, a backpack with 300 sheets of metal should be heavy. Might want to add in special exoskeletons for that purpose that maybe the CE gets (or maybe all engis, but you can't wear it with a hardsuit or backpack?), that prevent such injuries, and give you little green texts now and then telling you how amazingly easy it makes lifting and carrying things around. Also, filled phoron canisters are *heavy as hell,* like nearly a ton, when you actually do the math given their specific mass and the moles involved (and even canisters of oxygen are like 200 pounds). Honestly I think crates and canisters (and maybe closets?) should come with wheels; it'd make sense, given how they're generally explicitly used to transport things. Make it so they roll on their own a good distance if given a good push (bump into them running) and only roll two tiles (instead of moving one, as with right now) if you just walk into them. Pushing and pulling around machines without wheels, that should be very exertful though. For running, it should probably depend on how fit you are, and if you do things like stretching, etc., every now and then. ...Yeah, honestly, making people have to stretch and stuff to be able to run for long periods without exhausting themselves should probably be an actual thing. And there should probably be three movement modes - walk, jog, sprint. Walk, no penalties. Jog, you run out of stamina faster based on your fitness, but not nearly as quickly as it does now. Sprinting, go very fast, but you can't keep it up for very long at all, less you do running right now even, unless you're very fit. And maybe things like hyperzine, etc., should make it so that you can simply sprint and jog for much longer, and maybe give you a *very small* speed boost because it blocks your inhibition hurting yourself by going very fast. And you should only get strains and stuff if you continue to jog/sprint through the pain, when your stamina is bottoming out. Anyway, feel free to disregard all that. >Addictions and rehabilitation! Yee! I have found it very weird and offputting that we have these wonderful chemicals floating around, painkillers, hyperzine, synaptizine, etc., and there's literally nothing stopping you from taking them unless you "overdose" by taking too much at one time, or if you don't like the little emotes they make you give off. But somehow there's still a stigma around using them, as though they're hardcore bad drugs. Well, if they're gonna be hardcore bad drugs... actually make them *addictive!* Not just give you bad reactions if you take too much in a single dose! Re: rehab, I don't think that's something that should be relegated to one role. Medical has the most individual roles of any department as it is anyways, let's not push it even more. Also imagine being a rehab specialist and you spend the whole round waiting for someone to hopefully maybe let you do rehab on them : ( I would say that not getting proper recovery would give you mild penalties to e.g. stamina, lift weight restrictions, random emotes, randomly dropping things you're holding, randomly dropping your focus from a machine you're focusing on or randomly clicking on something you're adjacent to, or something. Annoying stuff, but not serious. In addition to the psych and viro wing, there's a "Supervised living" wing that literally never gets used. Get rid of all that, I'd say, and then if you're going to make a recovery area, it should be on the same z-level as medbay, and visible from inside medbay; don't want people to forget about it. There's some empty room in the maintenance tunnels that could be used. >Repurpose cryo tubes! So, actually, about that... they do exactly that already! I've studied and experimented with cryo tubes quite a bit. The "learned wisdom" that medical currently carries is that you should set the freezers to 60-90 degrees Kelvin. This does *not* correspond to body temp; since homostasis does not get slowed down by cryo, body temp is about 90 degrees higher than whatever the cryo tube reads out, and in practice this means that the patient is getting about a 8-14x slowdown on their life processes. If homeostasis did slow down, body temp would only be about 10 degrees warmer than what the cryotube says. Medical should not be worried about how much power the cryo freezers use by being set to 0K - which gives a 20x slowdown, same as a new cryobag - if the engine is on. If this engine *isn't* on, then yeah. The maximum theoretical slowdown is about 78x, if the coolers are set to 0K and homeostasis was actually slowed down by cryo. Their pulse, bleeding, breathing, processing of chemicals, and a few other things slowdown correspondingly. The brain damage from not getting enough breath is slowed down to the same extent. IMPORTANT: Cryoxadone or clonexadone will prevent the patient from getting freezer burns while in the tube, will each lower their pulse significantly, and will heal brute, burn, cloneloss, and oxy damage (no other chemical can the last two directly except rezadone, or orange juice/pneumalin for oxy). The cryo tube is perfect for saline use; the cryo tube transfers 1 unit of what's in its beaker into the patient every time there's no more clonex/cryox in the patient's system. So you make it so that your cryox and clonex are each 1/10th of the solution in the beaker - 2/10ths total, if you have both - since they each process at .1 units per tick. Then since saline processes at 1.5 units per tick, once you've put the rest of your medicines into the beaker (inaprovaline 1/10th, dexplus 1/10th, and cataleptinol 1/5th are good choices - or 1/5 alkysine, if patient has no mental traumas, as it heals faster), fill the rest of the beaker up with saline, and it'll help restore blood while your patient's in there. So for a large beaker, 12u clonex, 12u cryox, 12u inap, 12u dexplus, 24u alkysine, 48u saline; or for a small beaker, 6u clonex, 6u cryox, 6u inap, 6u dexplus, 12u alkysine, 24u saline. A large beaker is good for 120 life ticks, which occur once per two seconds times the slowdown - on traditional med settings, ~10x, that's about once per 20 seconds - so about 40 minutes. At 0K with homeostasis as-is, that's about once per 40 seconds, or 1 hour 20 minutes. If homeostasis is fixed to be slowed down by cryo, at 0K, that's close to once per 2 minutes 40 seconds, so 5 hours 20 minutes. At any rate, with that medicine mix at medbay's traditional temperature settings, a patient will heal I think people just don't know how to use cryotubes. They need to display health analyzer information on them, since otherwise you have to take them out of the tube to analyze them, which knocks them out of stasis immediately. Maybe even brain activity, and possibly other info as well, as much as the body scanner perhaps.

Here's some brainstorming that @Chada1 and I did last night: -Voluntary conversions should give some sort of cult telecrystals that can give you special stuff (like the bloodspike)? -Forced conversions hurt the converter? -Forced conversions gibs, or turns into ashes or remains, the resister after 3 "no"'s, and cultifies the area around the conversion? This way cult doesn't have to figure out what to do with a dirty resister, and the resister knows what will happen. No more "well... I guess we'll just... execute... you...?" -Forced conversions require the target to be restrained in some way? Either a tight grab, or cuffs? -If forced conversions kills the resister, it spawns a soul stone that acts like a ghostspawner (like bluespace golems), and which can be then used for constructs as normal? -Make soul stones able to host ghosts in general? If so, perhaps make constructs or soul stones more expensive? -If we want to make certain things more expensive, make them require a resource? A cultist's health (brain damage and a lot of burn?), cult telecrystals, cultified steel or plasteel or glass, etc.? -Voluntary conversions, construct implantations, and forced conversions all count different amounts towards being able to summon Nar'Sie? -Teleport rune popping up a menu showing the available destinations, like the GPS, instead of using networks? -Teleport talismans could be a one-time-use destination? -Increase or decrease the maximum number of runes (currently 25)? There is currently no limit on talismans, should there be? Should the rune limit be based on the number of cultists? -Different tiers of voluntary conversion? I.e., grander and more intricate conversion rituals that use up blood chalices or deal more damage or whatnot and require more runes to be drawn, tables to be placed, structures to be made, etc., give more cult telecrystals? -If constructs can house any ghost if the cultist does an appropriate sacrifice, should we get rid of the apparition spell? -Blood drain is worse than nothing, get rid of it, it just transfers blood to you which will hurt you if your blood type doesn't match -Blood boil may or may not do something, maybe get rid of it? -Forging rune should clarify its behavior more exactly, i.e. it gives you boots and backpack and hood only if you're not wearing something in those slots -Incapacitation rune is completely useless, perhaps replace it with a disarming or silencing spell, or just get rid of it completely -A meta-rune that can be used to trigger several other runes? Maybe tie this in to the advanced voluntary conversion rituals? -A rune that can create hallucinations/confusion? -Ghosts can harass cultists? Or perhaps they can always write blood on the wall/floor and flicker lights if they're near a cultist? -Forced conversion should add a permanent disability to the converter or convertee? -In the Nar'Sie summoning ritual, perhaps a pentagram-shaped energy field, like the one used to contain the singularity/tesla, should be used? @Carver Yeah the sacrificing bodies I wasn't too sure on either. The 3x3 grid is just, I dunno, it always feels a little silly trying to get everyone to crowd together, but perhaps it's just meaningless. Also if the summoning ritual actually takes time, keeping 9 people in the same spot for longer is gonna be exponentially more difficult. Perhaps the cultists have to be "in position" to advance to the next "stage" of the summon? Re: the head priest... perhaps they're the only one that can start it, but the rest of the cultists have to be in position? And the 1-time-use mass teleport won't put them in position, everyone has to get to those positions themselves? Perhaps the mass teleport has to be voluntary, i.e., you have to agree to the teleport to be teleported? And thanks for liking the ritual idea : D Any ideas for making it better? How long should it last, do you think?

Yay! I have a bunch of stuff I need to put in here that I discussed with Chada as well. I'll... uh... do that when I get around to it > . >

Riffing off of "give cult a Head Priest", what if summoning Nar'Sie was made more dramatic and involving? I'm pretty everyone has had Sudden Nar'Sie Syndrome happen to them - they're just toodling along, doing whatever it is they're doing, and suddenly NAR'SIE HAS RISEN and it's pretty frustrating, yeah? So since we were talking about this in the discord, I figured I'd make a forum post about it too. Here's a rough sketch of the ideas I have in mind (thanks to @canon35, @Happy_Fox, and @Arrow768): >The 9 cultists need x number of bodies to sacrifice (based on % of players active?) >They need to build a temple or summoning altar or something, with the summoning rune at the center, instead of just slapping down 9 runes >The cultists don't need to stand in a 3x3 grid, but just have 9 in the general vicinity of the rune, perhaps some or all of them having to be buckled in to "summoning chairs" or in front of summoning altars >First phase of the summoning: --sacrifice the bodies, a stationwide *boom* sound is heard as darkness and weird graphics begin to center around the summoning rune, everyone gets a message describing an unnatural presence invading somewhere on the station, and a Centcom alert goes out about strange bluespace readings near the station, and requests a status update. >Second phase of the summoning: --another boom is heard, a portal begins to tear open at the summoning rune, some creepy music begins playing to everyone, everyone gets a message describing the feeling of that unnatural presence growing and it gives them a general idea of where the ritual site is, everything starts getting tinted red a little bit, and a few monsters friendly to the cultists leak out of the portal, Centcom requests another status update and says they're getting ready to send the shuttle. >Third phase of the summoning: -- booms start happening every minute or half-minute or so, more monsters pour out of the portal, everyone can feel exactly where the ritual is happening, Centcom sends an expedited shuttle, everyone gets a message telling them of the unspeakable horror breaching the world, ghosts can join as apparitions and constructs that come out of the portal, the world gets tinted even redder. >Fourth phase of the summoning: --Nar'Sie has risen, Centcom sends a OH MY GOD WTF signal and the shuttle has docked and gets ready to leave >If a Head Priest is implemented, they can use a 1 time spell to summon everyone to the ritual site, and they are the only one that can start the summoning ritual What do you think? What parts do you like? Dislike? Anything you'd like to add?

Hmmm... Maybe if... ah. So, I have a PR out to make drawing runes happen with actual chalk, instead of a random dagger you never see. So what if we make the peace-conversion happen via a rune that the cultist guides the volunteer to draw around themselves, and once they finish, they activate it, and the rune disappears, and now they're a cultist?

@Carver Neat, gotcha! Maybe like... a uh... crystal ball, or... something, that there can be only one of (or a few of) (to satisfy Coalf's stipulation i/r/t not simply spamming them)? I'm kinda partial to the kooky ritualistic thing. Obvious, and perhaps the runes disappear upon use, and one requiring the cooperation of the volunteer, but non-violent. Do you have any thoughts on candidates for what it may/should be? Or maybe like a prayer ritual... the cultist has to lead a chant at an altar, and the volunteer has to repeat the same things the cultist says? And the cultist can say anything, and the volunteer has to repeat it back exactly? ... Maybe? Hm.

@Lemei I get what you mean about peacecult being kinda frustrating. You're just happily doing your job, no clue that something weird may be going on, and then suddenly, NAR'SIE HAS RISEN, is a pretty frustrating way to have your round end. I think it'd be cooler if like, cultists had to convert *everyone* on the station, or at least 80% of them, and die/kill them trying, not just have the cop-out of "o hay we have 9 people? let's do teh narsie thing". That sounds like a process that would be engaging and enjoyable for much more people, and which some fancy ritualistic peace-conversion would do wonders for enabling. I'd say with the leader, you could definitely include "no leader" in the voting process if someone starts a vote to make themselves the leader, shutting off future leader-vote attempts. A temple does sound really cool to help enable the leader's (or just an arbitrary cultist's) powers!

Oh! And the Head Master Cultist should only be able to use their Special Powers while wearing their special robes!

Ok so I actually I'm rethinking the "CODE IT RIGHT NOW" part b/c probably need a bit more feedback. /tg/station actually has this, called the Cult Master. https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Blood_Cult#The_Cult_Master_and_You Anyway, I think implementing both the High Priest thing and the peaceful conversion thing is awesome. However after discussing with @Coalf they brought up the following requirements they'd like to see in the peace-conversion method: 1) It should be less risky than a rune, but more risky than rev conversion. (For reference: cult conversion is writhing around on a rune and burning from the inside while a cultist shouts over you, and rev conversion is silently using a verb to make a "join?" prompt come up for them.) 2) It should be preferably done through interaction, or at least be limited so that cultists can't just spam it. 3) It should be obvious to a player (not the character, necessarily) that this is "becoming cultist" so they don't do it on accident. Re: 3, an automatic OOC prompt may be good enough? "Note to player: Clicking "Yes" will convert you into a cultist of Nar'Sie!" Re: 2, that means it can't be an item that the cultists can summon through a rune, unless the use of that rune is limited in some way. Interaction is a good way to go, I think, yes. So maybe like a fancy ritual? Maybe the cultist has to have the tome in their hand... oo. And then the conversion process... oo. So make a new rune, that the volunteer has to stand still on. When it's activated, the cultist has to draw eight more runes around it without the volunteer stepping off of it, place a candle in each corner, and then the cultist has to activate the center rune again, and the volunteer gets a prompt to convert? And glowing darkness surround the runes? Oo, what if we made that just what the conversion rune does in general?? And you can do the ritual with just one rune, but then it does the "wracking agony and screaming" thing? (And the cultist can summon candles and matches.) Oh and maybe instead of or in addition to a prompt or notice, the converting cultist has to say something like "DO YOU ACCEPT THE DARKNESS?" and the volunteer has to say "I DO! I DO! I DO! PRAISE BE!" or something I think that would cover 1 too : ) Re: Cult Master, what powers should they have? And they should be voted in like the /tg/ head cultist? Perhaps the ability to use the Communication rune without having to draw it? And be able to use sheets of steel to make cult structures? Maybe the cult master can summon exactly one of the cult guns (bloodspike)? And they are the only one that can activate the Summon Nar'Sie ritual? If the Master dies, a new one should be able to be elected? If the Cult Master uses the astral projection rune, they can communicate to the cultists still using the Communication rune without having to draw it? During the vote, the cult is encouraged to use AOOC to discuss whether they want to vote for the master or not? Oh and maybe the head cultist can choose the communal objective (summon nar'sie, sacrifice some people, get a certain number of cultists off station, etc.) If converting people becomes easier to do, perhaps raise the number of people needed to summon Nar'Sie? Ooh and what if ... you know how you can choose your deity as a chaplain? What if you could choose your diety as a head cultist : D

I LIED I won't code this right now BUT I MIGHT CODE IT IN ABOUT A DAY

A LORE TOME I WILL CODE THIS RIGHT NOW

@ThelonTV I was told by Arrow that that was a bit too general for his liking, because what if people prefer rev and hate cult, for example? I do want to make a better voting system though.

This sounds AWESOME! I kinda wanna code it right now! (after I get done coding what I'm doing right now)

@Playbahnosh@Carver Maybe y'all are looking at two different ways of seeing roleplay? On the one hand, roleplay is - being given a role, and acting it out. Having a defined structure, a story, and a role, and you play that role. The roleplay is strict; you have a script; and there's not much deviance. Everyone knows what to expect, and you get to do things that people playing the "normal" roles don't get to. And that's fun for some people. On the other hand is - being given a toolkit, and told to make a story out of those tools. No role is made, no structure or flavor besides that which the tools impose- just the freedom to free-form, create a story and create the role that you play, and to get others into the role you're playing too.

In re: expectations... yeah, secret being a wildcard is part of the fun! But I wonder if it'd be a good idea to have more narrow wildcards? As it stands right now, there's basically too many things to vote for - unless a well-liked admin pushes for a particular round type in pre-round OOC, or people are joking so much about a round type that a high enough number explicitly votes for it for the memes, a vote for not-secret or not-extended is essentially a wasted vote, and so the practical choice boils down to "Do I want extended, or do I want the high possibility of some random antag I may or may not like?" Hmm, I wanna do some research into voting theory to see which kind of voting system would be better for round-type selection. First-past-the-post (single choice, one winner, majority wins, etc.) leaves a lot to be desired, and it'd be nice for people to be able to express their desires with as little gaming of the system as possible.