Frances

I might be going on a tangent, but the only valid reason I see to reproach hiding bodies to an antag is that antags remain primarily to bring something interesting to the round. People have encountered situations (not necessarily on here) where characters are randomly killed without warning, all of the crime's evidence disposed off, and the bodies sent into space or something similar. It's not necessarily about giving players a chance to be cloned (I think anyone killed by an antag should simply ask for a respawn if they want to keep playing straight away), but you can have antags that effectively remove characters from the round without bringing any single thing to it otherwise. And that's what we should be trying to avoid. I haven't read the minute details of this complaint, but I'd surmise this isn't exactly what's happening here, though.

That was the same round. I actually delegated the task to literally anyone available over the med channel, and asked my staff to splint the limb in the meantime (there were several MDs and at least one surgeon available, so that's a far stretch from the "I refuse to perform surgery" you went on to complain I supposedly said). The reason for that is that yes, I wanted to watch the play (not the wizard lol). We've never had a play that I know of, whereas people come with random broken bones constantly, and as long as the patient's condition isn't critical they can be given a splint and carry on with their work for a good 20 minutes or however long the play lasted, if literally no one is willing to fix them. Just want to add that I don't really understand how a whitelist strip really applies here. You guys need to decide whether these actions are unbecoming of an Aurora player at all or not, but they've got very little to do with me being CMO.

head over to their house and kill them i guarantee if you do that you will never get trouble from them again

Just saying, I don't think this should be particularly relevant. I don't think the staff is on a crusade against old players specifically, and in fact I don't see how the time I've spent on the server relates to this complaint. I appreciate your input for the rest of your post, though.

I really wouldn't mind if people engaged in small jokes like that. I think it's more entertaining than everyone having generic super serious and professional characters, especially when we're repeating the same circle of doom and death several times a day. Weirdly enough, I feel like it's also any community's mods' unspoken duty to curb and ban individuals engaging in such humor. And I can't really explain why that is, but it's just the way things are lol.

I personally thought that was the humor in it. However, some people will disagree, and have even insulted me for it. Nobody has seemed to be willing to have a polite discussion with me about it so far, though.

There was welder fuel in the holodeck, my character walked through it with a lit cigar, it caught on fire. I wanted to see if it would catch on fire. I immediately proceeded to drop and pretend to be terribly injured, then upon realizing the fire actually did nothing to me, had my character play it off as a joke. He then casually stood in the fire for a few minutes while conversing with other people, before going back to work because somebody needed him in the medbay.

I actually didn't lay in the fuel as much as I stood in it. Since we were talking about a puddle, I think that's worth being considered. Anyway, if you mean that it's immersion-breaking, I won't deny it, but I'll argue the immersion was broken the moment you had things catching on fire without actually harming anyone. I could've pretended to be hurt (though people usually don't care about that) or simply walked it off, but I decided to play it off as a joke instead. Is this worthy of a ban? I dunno. I would've probably banned myself, but I was a pretty shit admin back then.

Define harmless, because given the circumstances it could take on a lot of meanings?

I did it for the same reason you whisper "ayy lmao" to people, stuff your bag with mice (at least I think?) and played "catch the medbay". Not a personal attack, by the way. You can come up with a bunch of IC reasons to explain these silly things (in fact, I believe people should treat welder fuel as inert when outside a welder, because it does literally nothing except look pretty). So you could just say that my character understood that the welder fuel was safe and lit it up to put on a show, or, honestly, whatever. That's not really the important part, but doing what he did feels as silly to me as pretending to be burned by an imaginary fire. The real reason is that it's fun to goof around with these tiny bugs. I've always felt like a large portion of the playerbase plays SS13 in part because of silly happenings. It's also the same reason why I've been wearing Runtime on my head for the past week.

I can 100% fully confirm this has happened. Welder fires are pretty silly due to a longstanding bug and not even worth mentioning. If you think this is worth a ban or a whitelist strip, go ahead, but it's not the first time I've seen people make fun of silly or broken gameplay mechanics.

That's debatable (and comes with the argument that if so few people want to play extended, then why force it so much on players?) Either way, we can agree that the situation we're currently in isn't an optimal one, and if the suggestion I'm proposing doesn't end up fixing the problem, it'd be rather easy to revert to the current system. In the end, it's not the kind of thing that we can really find out without testing it (and I don't think this test comes at a particularly heavy cost). Anyway, let me reiterate my reasoning again. 1. There's a small group of people who want extended-only, another small (and maybe less vocal) group who want antags-only, and a reasonably bigger group of people who I can surmise prefer a mix of extended and antag rounds in varying proportions. 2. As a whole, people on the server will always want some amount of extended rounds 3. Since extended rounds show up very frequently in secret, people feel no need to vote for extended 4. People who want extended rounds vote for secret as they no longer expect extended to win due to the previous clause 5. If extended rounds didn't happen in secret, they would become rarer 6. If extended rounds were rarer, more people would be tempted to vote for extended once again (the extended crowd, + the antag-and-extended crowd) 7. Secret-extended rounds are probably the roundtype that most people can agree they moderately dislike (extended players would prefer straight extended, antag players would prefer antags) Also, reducing the chance of extended through secret without removing it is just putting a patch on a bigger boo-boo, imo. Better to go all the way than take a compromise which leaves weird implications of "extended is still kinda in secret but not so much", since my whole point is that secret-extended isn't a fun gamemode for anyone. Lastly, I'll add that the reason why secret wins so often is because people pile up on it to prevent another antag gamemode such as nuke or rp-rev from winning. So, there. Not optimal at all.

In my opinion, maybe the warning was more because you kept talking about things you were asked to stop talking about? There's a reason why OOC shouldn't have long, pointless memetic discussions about Hitler (because it skirts the line of the unacceptable by spamming OOC with things that are borderline not "PG-13" - including dildos, hate speech, and yes, holocaust jokes). You didn't actually make any holocaust jokes (just encourage people to continue discussing a topic closely related - and leading - to something similar for pointless reasons), which is why this alone didn't deserve more than a tap on the shoulder. And since you kept talking about it afterwards (translating a Hitler quote after being told to stop talking about Hitler probably isn't the best idea), you got the warning above a tap on the shoulder, which is, well, an actual warning. That's about as well as I can explain it but perhaps someone else can put it better.

His history on the server shouldn't have anything to do with this, unless it's a history of either being very nice to people (in which case this should come as a surprise) or one of being a dick to people (in which case harsher punishment should be applied). When I look at these logs without attaching a name to them, what I see is someone being a little too salty in OOC. So yeah, that should be dealt with.

People have always gotten annoyed at antags, especially in nuke, rp-rev, cult, and to a lesser extent ling. These are the people who play these gamemodes reluctantly, not because they enjoy them a lot. I'm actually making this suggestion because I'd like to see more good extended, though. Not because I want less of it. I basically realized that I have different characters I play depending on whether it's extended or antags, and it gets frustrating when you're in the mindset that you want to antag (or see antaggy things) and nothing happens, or when you want to have a calm round and antaggy things happen. Which is why I think we'd greatly benefit from being able to anticipate both more clearly. IIRC, the numbers now go: Nuke=1, Everything else=2, Extended=3.

Well, okay, if he was informed what Houssam did was non-canon and he kept sending you hatemail about a non-canon thing after knowing he was supposed to disregard it, then that's bad.

Isn't this just an employee being upset at one of his superiors and being an IC dick about it? There's slandering, there's hatemail/spam, but these are all IC. As long as the character had a reasonable (subjectively, I don't mean objectively) reason to develop a grudge against Houssam, why should this be dealt with OOCly? If the character performs in that way as a non-antag, as part of the station canon, he can be arrested, dealt with with DOs, and have IC measures taken against him, or even be fired outright. I just don't see how characters being a dick to other characters violates the "don't be an OOC dick" rule here, though Jackboot might have more to explain.

Extended has a slightly higher chance of being picked in secret over other gamemodes, which I believe is partly the reason why we're seeing so much secret. The way this basically goes is: extended gets picked by secret a lot, people see a lot of extended rounds in secret, thus people don't feel like voting for extended because they're already getting a lot of it. Increasing the chance of extended being picked by secret would only exacerbate the problem even further. It wouldn't make secret any more convenient, but would simply encourage people to abandon it for selective antag gamemodes, which to me seems like a loss.

That's probably the best way to describe the problem I could ever think of. Secret-extended and extended aren't the same. From both the arguments I've already heard and the few that have been presented here so far, I feel like most people that want to protect secret-extended are somehow afraid that secret without extended would get even worse, as there would no longer be any extended rounds, ever. But these secret-extended rounds aren't "extended". You don't know what's gonna happen. You can't really get invested in them anymore, because the possibility of antags is always there. People who love antags get disappointed because their secret rounds are calm, and people who love extended get disappointed because their secret rounds have antags. Voted extended is muuuuch better than secret-extended for that reason. The whole point of extended is "I want to play a relatively calm office simulator" (occasional griefers and chucklefucks aside). Not knowing when you can do that or not is kinda terrible.

It's exactly this kind of thinking that got people not to vote for extended anymore. They expect it not to win, so they vote for secret in the hope that secret becomes as uneventful as possible. Remove secret, secret no longer wins every vote due to half the voters hoping to get a specific gamemode out of it, and extended actually gets selected in a way that we actually know when it's extended or not. Trust me, there's a reasonable amount of people that do want to play extended. The reason why I'm suggesting this change is because I'm one of them.

Yeah, secret prevents us from anticipating a specific type of antag. And it's a fun surprise, but I don't see what removing extended does on that front. There isn't really any metagaming that can be done against "antags in general" that people won't do just because "it might be extended". As for dead hour secret, once again, I'm asking... is it actually an enjoyable surprise to vote for secret and find out the secret is... that nothing at all would happen? why lol

You were told to stop, you didn't, you got a warning. That seems like a reasonable escalation of punishments to me, no?

I tend to see things this way: Most people tend to prefer either extended or antag roundtypes, with preferences sometimes varying depending on the person's mood When people see too much of a roundtype, they vote for the other (the extended break after nuke was a common one) The server already has a natural balance of extended-vs-antag which should be able to maintain itself. But it'd be much better for clarity if we could actually know what type of game we're heading into (and no, I don't think anyone who wants extended gets pleasantly surprised by random antags, nor that anyone who wants antags gets pleasantly surprised by a lack thereof.)

The defense rests its case.

Pretty simple. 1. Secret is a gamemode people vote for because they want something antaggy but surprising to happen. When secret turns out to be extended, the people who voted in secret for the action usually end up being disappointed, and a lot of secret-extended rounds end with a 2:00 transfer due to general boredom. 2. People who want to play extended but vote for secret are basically taking a chance with secret, because extended never gets voted in. These people are voting for the 20-30% chance the round might not end in a fiery blaze of glory, and it's not really ideal when you want to engage in quiet roleplay but don't really have any guarantee you won't get assblasted by a wizard. This leads to a sub-optimal situation where everyone is voting secret 90% of the time without it really being what anybody wants. If we remove extended from the secret rotation, we get two things: 1. Secret rounds come with a guarantee of something antaggy to happen, which removes the disappointment of secret-extended. 2. As the antagging becomes more consistent and frequent, people will actually start voting for extended again, much like how it happened in the past. People who prefer extended rounds will then be free to join without the fear of random assblasting. Overall, the amount of action on the server would remain the same, but people could at least know whether they're heading into an antag or extended round, which I think as a whole is a clarification most people would be happy to receive.