[Resolved] Staff Complaint - ParadoxSpace

[LanceLynxx]

BYOND Key: LanceLynxx

Staff BYOND Key: ParadoxSpace 

Game ID: bZI-aGyF

Reason for complaint: Receiving a warning for questioning a decision to stop answering  "find out icly" after doing so twice.

1) Someone asked about Kinetic Accelerators:

Does it have any practical application for mining or is it just a weapon?"

To which I replied

Find out icly

2) Someone said

"I don't think borgs can get (KA) upgrades",

to which I replied

"I could tell you but it's better if you find out icly".

I was then told by Paradox to stop saying "find out icly" , so I didn't reply any other questions with "find out icly".

I did, however, question the decision and reasoning.

After being questioned, Paradox PM'd:

"I'm going to make this a ticket. When people, new or old, ask legitimate, answerable questions, do not blow them off and tell them to find out ICly. It's not handholding, it's basic courtesy. While OOC is not mentorhelp, people might not be comfortable making a whole ticket just to ask stuff."

After that, I received the following note added to my otherwise squeaky clean warning window:

paradoxspace
2019-04-11 07:31:52
"When people ask legitimate, answerable questions in OOC, you do not tell them to find out ICly and make them feel unwelcome. It's not 'handholding' to answer questions."

Evidence/logs/etc: 

 

See attached file at the bottom of the page for logs for the entire round. I suggest CTRL+F "Reziffy:How does the kinetic accelerator work?" because that's the line of when it began.

Additional remarks: I can't believe I'm having to actually type all this.
It doesn't make sense to make an issue out of something that was never an issue, that is a running joke, and not only joked with by players, but also staff, from trials to headmins.

Making a fuss out of a running gag is so moronic and cretinous that I can't fathom how bored one must have been to go after a non issue instead of, you know, actually answering the newbies and helping them like trial mods should.

I had absolutely zero interactions or complaints from any other staff regarding any of this "issue".

At any time, Paradox could still use their OOC to answer questions.
Not once did Paradox attempt to help anyone asking questions at the time of the incident, instruct them to use ahelp for game questions, or answer any OOC questions.
All the attention, effort and energy went to to pinning a warning to me over innocent joke replies commonly used and known by anyone that comes on to the server for more than a single round.

I do note that after being told to stop answering "find out icly", I complied.

I was warned after questioning the decision of Paradox in the PMs.

So the entire ordeal doesn't make a drop of sense.

 

I'd like to ask this inane warning to be removed. Being penalized for questioning a decision (of prohibiting the use of a harmless running joke) is flabbergasting.
_{Maybe double check if this is really the mod material you want}
 

ss13 log.htm

Edited April 15, 2019 by ReadThisNamePlz

[Ornias]

While I'm not directly involved, I just want to add on as well: you might have done it as part of a running gag, but I believe that it is genuinely and unquestionably best that things like the questions asked are discovered ICly.

It's compelling, provides a reason to interact with people, and we shouldn't treat all knowledge as universal. Not knowing things OOCly means that you can actually learn and have the joy of finding new things- exactly like Secret Chems are supposed to be.

Saying 'find out ICly' in response to questions like 'how do I move' and 'how do I talk' is one thing (the acceptability of which can be debated), but about things specifically related to private equipment- research upgrades for cyborgs and violent uses for kinetic accelerators- is completely fair.

Unless someone is able to say why it's wrong to encourage people to find out answers to IC questions ICly, then I will continue to do so unless a ruling is placed specifically against it.

 

[LanceLynxx]

21 minutes ago, Ornias said:

While I'm not directly involved, I just want to add on as well: you might have done it as part of a running gag, but I believe that it is genuinely and unquestionably best that things like the questions asked are discovered ICly.

It's compelling, provides a reason to interact with people, and we shouldn't treat all knowledge as universal. Not knowing things OOCly means that you can actually learn and have the joy of finding new things- exactly like Secret Chems are supposed to be.

Saying 'find out ICly' in response to questions like 'how do I move' and 'how do I talk' is one thing (the acceptability of which can be debated), but about things specifically related to private equipment- research upgrades for cyborgs and violent uses for kinetic accelerators- is completely fair.

Unless someone is able to say why it's wrong to encourage people to find out answers to IC questions ICly, then I will continue to do so unless a ruling is placed specifically against it.

 

I completely agree. While I do say "find out icly" in a joking manner, IT has a drop of truth as in yes, you should actually find out ICLY..

Telling someone how to do essential tasks like how to unbuckle or run or whatever, basic things, Are things I don't tell anyone "find out icly", but anyone looking for very specific knowledge that can be acquired ICly through trial and error and mechanics and RP, instead of getting a straight answer, Then yes, I think it is by far better to find out icly.

An example of something I often do with people who want to learn telescience or circuits: they usually ask me OOC or LOOC how it works. I refuse to handhold and ruin the entire fun which is the discovery and the challenge, but Ill tell them to look for Sukhoi IC and ask him about it, then give them a lesson and tips, pointers, etcetera.

Knowledge isn't the problem, but the way it is provided is. I refuse to handhold and give a full guide on anything lest end up with powergaming without the least amount of RP effort or character growth and player growth too.

As a side note, anyone asking powergaming or minmaxing tips will also get a find out icly response. ("What is better for melee X or Y" or "what's the best upgrade for Z", etc)

 

Genuine basic questions shouldn't be dismissed, but in both cases outlined in my complaint, they weren't. They were specific knowledge of things they could figure out in character by speaking to roboticists or scientists or miners or other cyborgs and as such, I found warranted the FIND OUT ICLY response

Never mind the existence of wiki and ahelp.

I feel dumb that I have to even explain  this 

Edited April 11, 2019 by LanceLynxx

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Hi, I will be handling this complaint. Please allow me some time to review this, and log dive.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Ok. Hello, sorry for the delay.

I've decided that a warning is indeed needed, however, not for this reason. 

@LanceLynxx You displayed a horrible attitude and tone within the ticket between both you and @ParadoxSpace .

Paradox is in the right for warning you. Just not for this reason. Yes, you should avoid saying "find out icly" to a new player, or someone who genuinely needs help, but it isn't exactly warning worthy. 
However; your conduct and behavior in the ticket are warning worthy. I will be deleting the current warning and advising Paradox to place a different warning, regarding your attitude and conduct in the ticket.


I will also be locking and archiving this within the next 24 hours.

Edited April 14, 2019 by ReadThisNamePlz