psa: security

[Guest]

Please note you're probably roleplaying a trained and professional individual whose job is to keep the peace onboard a station of chucklefucks and greytiders. To maintain a controlled chaos.

Also, please note you're probably not in security to RP police brutality simulator 13.

Please don't tell me I'm on a stretch here.

[witchbells]

Pick up the can.

[Guest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibhjF-yf1vw

[VoltageHero]

In all reality, everybody on board a SS13 station should be a professional. If you wanted to take it that realistic stance, anybody chuckle-fucking should be getting in some trouble, beyond getting tossed in the brig for five minutes for writing stuff all over the bridge in crayon. Seeing as that doesn't happen a lot...

It means that harmbatons must happen more, obviously.

[Guest]

Yeah, man! The ends justify the means, even if a Taj engineer welded an SSD officer shut into a closet. And then slapping assault on them as well as Illegal Detention for good measure on them. Thaaat's justice.

[Jamini]

Can we please keep incident reports and complaints to the appropriate section, Delta?

(I laughed my ass off as that happened, then had to raise a bit of an IC shitstorm over the excessive charges placed on what was little more than a battery charge, but I digress.)

Honestly, I feel most of security are fine. However, a few notable individuals really can sour the whole department easily, and the "Blue Code" argument makes me genuinely angry with people who defend said individuals. While I understand that everyone is an individual; an individual who is crass, abusive, rude, and insubordinate is as unlikely to remain in security.

[VoltageHero]

Yeah, man! The ends justify the means, even if a Taj engineer welded an SSD officer shut into a closet. And then slapping assault on them as well as Illegal Detention for good measure on them. Thaaat's justice.

 

I don't see why you're being so passive-aggressive about an issue that happened once, at least four rounds back, seeing as you're not the player who was even arrested. Unless the player who was actually arrested comes forward and says that, OOCly it was an issue for them...

I've seen rounds where Engineering would run around and try to 'be the hero the station deserved', or where medical decided to not knock people out before cutting into them. Both isn't very professional, but it doesn't really deserve a thread over an isolated event.

Unless, of course you wish to cite more incidents with Security. More can be cited with other departments as well. That's why SS13 is the way it is. One department shouldn't be forced to sit down and play by the books, and not be allowed even an inch of leeway, while every other department can lel around.

From your previous statement, it sounds like you're upset over an unfair charge, which sadly does happen world-wide for numerous reasons. So, if realism is what you're wanting, you got that.

[Guest]

Having missed quite a few months of head of staff gameplay as well as seeing the faces of security go and then new ones come in, only to have the same issues that the old ones had and were fixed before, it's very frustrating to see the new generation didn't learn anything from the old.

Seeing the same shit happening on a different day, is very frustrating to have to deal with. I probably have 3-4 long incident reports to finish off in notepad right now, but I've little time and energy to do so.

And uh, Voltage. It was an issue with vigilantism, unnecessary department warring, and literal shitcurity trying to pin the suspect for more than they deserved. It pissed me off because the CO at the time was eating dinner and I needed to deal with and defuse the issue before it got out of hand. Taking responsibility for things that are easily avoidable on the parts of the offending and prosecuting party is rather unnecessary until the prosecutors fuck up.

I'm going to go finish off that specific report now.

[Jamini]

I don't see why you're being so passive-aggressive about an issue that happened once, at least four rounds back, seeing as you're not the player who was even arrested. Unless the player who was actually arrested comes forward and says that, OOCly it was an issue for them...

 

As one of the officers involved, and a player that made an IC complaint and a complaint to the admins, as well as someone who talked to Nightmare OOCly after the incident... Yes, it was an issue. He seemed bothered by it when I was talking to him post-round. Perhaps he wasn't bothered severely, but he was definitely bothered and irritated.

As was I.

[VoltageHero]

I don't see why you're being so passive-aggressive about an issue that happened once, at least four rounds back, seeing as you're not the player who was even arrested. Unless the player who was actually arrested comes forward and says that, OOCly it was an issue for them...

 

As one of the officers involved, and a player that made an IC complaint and a complaint to the admins, as well as someone who talked to Nightmare OOCly after the incident... Yes, it was an issue. He seemed bothered by it when I was talking to him post-round. Perhaps he wasn't bothered severely, but he was definitely bothered and irritated.

As was I.

 

Every round you are going to have somebody who is not happy. Does that mean you type up a complaint about it, every single time? You can't cite the lack of professionalism with one group of people or a department, and decide to ignore the other's, when it fits your own needs.

There is no reason for this to really be here, besides "I didn't like the way (x) was handled", and slapping the offending parties and telling them they did wrong.

[Baka]

((Just learned what happen. brb, formulating response))

[Jamini]

Every round you are going to have somebody who is not happy. Does that mean you type up a complaint about it, every single time? You can't cite the lack of professionalism with one group of people or a department, and decide to ignore the other's, when it fits your own needs.

 

I can when it is a routine issue, which it is. I was a member of said department in question when the events occurred, and it is by no means an isolated incident. Hell, I was even told off by the head of security for reporting the abuse to the captain for "breaking the blue code" (which I presume is a reference to police not arresting/reporting their own). Such attitudes, especially from security, are sickening.

And, to be absolutely blunt, I don't ignore the lack of professionalism in any department. Unless I am playing a character that is not intended to seem professional (Omnir, in medical, and even he does his job before goofing off.) I will very much take issue with ANYONE chuckle-fucking around or making a round shitty for another player. It's, in part, why I play command roles. It's why on my very first round in medical I made a complaint about a MD and CMO that had acting in a manner unbecoming.

I do not play favorites. I never have, and I never will. Security is just as responsible for their screw-ups as any other department, even more-so when security members start playing favorites with corrupt officers. When it is to the point where I outright have another player tell me that the only reason they were unwilling to trust an unknown officer is because they did not believe that I would detain another officer who committed a break in regulations in front of me based on prior experience with security, there is indeed an issue.

[VoltageHero]

While I understand that everyone is an individual; an individual who is crass, abusive, rude, and insubordinate is as unlikely to remain in security.

 

I wanted to address this as well. This is pretty much just a "I don't like this character, get rid of them".

Why? Because (with respect towards these players), a good deal of characters wouldn't be employed at all, and would be fired before somebody with a bad attitude. People who nearly sexually harass others, people who go around committing small crimes just to do it. People who shut down at the first sign of trouble generally wouldn't really be in Security or Medical (which, has happened with more than one or two characters, surprisingly).

So, no. A good deal of people wouldn't employed with the way most players control their characters. It isn't limited to Security.

And no, you do play favorites. I have never seen you call out any department, but Security. I can be completely wrong, but this is from personal experience, both on the server, and on the forums. Everything, seemingly according to you, is Security's fault. You have (from what I have seen) bad issues with Security in the past, and now have a bias against Security, which you use quite a bit.

[Jamini]

And no, you do play favorites. I have never seen you call out any department, but Security. I can be completely wrong, but this is from personal experience, both on the server, and on the forums. Everything, seemingly according to you, is Security's fault. You have (from what I have seen) bad issues with Security in the past, and now have a bias against Security, which you use quite a bit.

 

I've called out medical on issues before, specifically with both a CMO and two surgeons who resulted directly in a needless death. You don't see me call out engineering because I generally try and resolve such issues ICly, as that is generally where I play and I can address issues there directly.

I've personally reprimand Travis for his IC attitude, and told him to shape up as well as issue warnings on his behavior in-game on a daily basis. I routinely have engineers who are insubordinate or ignore setup in the CE's office for reprimand or (thankfully rarely)have them demoted. Not long ago I even had a roboticist detained at the end of the round for modifying his lab in an illegal way. I've done the same to Tal when I've seen her breaking regulations. (and she is known for building random lairs in maint.)

My main issue with security is that it is a consistent issue with several officers (Jade, Winston), and often they get a free pass out of IC repercussions due to being security. While yes, both of them are currently dealing with DOs and incident reports, it does not address the issue that security will let such behavior slide in he first place when they should not. Other departments can and do get detained when they break regulations, security often do not. It's a pandemic issue. Even playing in security yesterday, as I indeed to continue doing, has not in the slightest changed my opinion that security is not held as accountable as they should be ICly.

Refs:

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=1635 - Science

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=1477 - Medical

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=1695 - Science/Engineering/Security (I was involved, did not actually state in the IR as I had nothing to add)

 

[3/23/2015 4:05:44 PM] Jamini: Yesterday I was SO MAD at [sURGEON].

[3/23/2015 4:05:44 PM] Jamini: SO MAD

[3/23/2015 4:05:45 PM] REDACTED: I once did...

[3/23/2015 4:05:50 PM] REDACTED: My best accomplishment is 13 surgeries back to back

[3/23/2015 4:05:51 PM] Jamini: We had ONE PATIENT all round

[3/23/2015 4:05:55 PM] Jamini: mine is something like that

[3/23/2015 4:05:58 PM] REDACTED: I hate [sURGEON] so much

[3/23/2015 4:06:03 PM] Jamini: She let someone die

[3/23/2015 4:06:04 PM] REDACTED: Let me share a story too

[3/23/2015 4:06:07 PM] Jamini: Because she had to complain

[3/23/2015 4:06:11 PM] Jamini: About personal space

 

Edit: Also, there is a particular CE that I bitch about fairly constantly.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

Personally, I'm very much leaning towards instating one-stop you're-fucking-dropped-from-the-team protocols as HoS. The shit Jamini complains about regularly is often what I have to put up with now, and I'm pretty sick of having to tell everyone twice. Yes, this is a game and not every round should have an incident report filed out. But with certain problem characters consistently behaving the way they do, it's very difficult to be able to take responsibility for my failure to clear up what is right and what is wrong, because this is a very common issue that I make very clear that I am absolutely not tolerant of, ICly.

I absolutely despise characters that pretend to be the edgy 9-inch nails bad guy or the KGB villain in security. Either the characters will learn how to act and react properly and prevent all-out department wars and riots, or they will absolutely not be on the team I'm trying to lead.

This is a corporate workplace in space, where everyone should learn to trust and rely on each other even in the most awful conditions. The amount of teamwork on-station that can happen is what will make or break an antag-team round. And even in extended, a lot of the departments can have a lot of fun by just cooperating with each other.

But as someone who wants to help people improve in security, I find it really difficult to be able to trust people in my own freaking department to not cause World War of Civil Rights, which is absolutely unacceptable.

[VoltageHero]

My main issue with security is that it is a consistent issue with several officers (Jade, Winston), and often they get a free pass out of IC repercussions due to being security. While yes, both of them are currently dealing with DOs and incident reports, it does not address the issue that security will let such behavior slide in he first place when they should not. Other departments can and do get detained when they break regulations, security often do not. It's a pandemic issue. Even playing in security yesterday, as I indeed to continue doing, has not in the slightest changed my opinion that security is not held as accountable as they should be ICly.

 

 

This is completely untrue. Carton himself has been arrested a few times for doing something amazingly dumb. He nearly got fired the other day for attacking a prisoner by the Captain. The issue is, you don't see it happen, so it doesn't happen, according to you. I have seen other officers, such as the Warden, and even Detective end up in the brig for doing something beyond stupid.

What I'm assuming you are trying to say is that officers aren't arrested for their bad attitude because they commonly are arrested for actual crimes, such as petty theft and assault. I don't see where you're seeing "security officers are g

No, you can't tell Security to do everything for you, and protect everything you do, and then get upset with a character steps out of line. If Security has to be a by-the-books Security team, then the rest of the station can't be doing anything besides their jobs either. But, oh no. That's not fun, is it?

Reading through both Delta and Jamini's complaints, it looks like you both are looking for an ideal of Security, and are wanting the department shaped to your ideals (which I'm assuming is a very complete, almost police-like) security team. As I've said before, the station isn't going to be everything you want.

You both are wanting to boost Security up to a higher-standard, and want to place it in a locked-glass, where it protects your own ideal of Security.

[Cassie]

I have some very fond memories of security, very fond memories.

 

 

On serious note, maybe sec should follow SIA guidelines and not police guidelines?

Edited March 24, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

You both are wanting to boost Security up to a higher-standard, and want to place it in a locked-glass, where it protects your own ideal of Security.

 

And is there anything wrong with trying to influence, or in some cases, enforce certain ideals?

As Tenenza once told me, but correct me if I'm interpreting this incorrectly and I'm Hitler for doing so. When trying to get people (and characters, too) to improve, you often need to manipulate them to be better people. Is it against what your perception of fun is? Maybe, might be different for others as well. But I want people to actually respect what good security is and recognize that not even security is above the law.

And by this ideal and with potentially upcoming developments in terms of heads of staff communicating, we can improve the general atmosphere of the game and properly break down the worst of people and build up their strengths. Carton's great at talking to people, but his anger gets in the way of fucking everything, for example. How would certain people solve this? Manipulation. But by telling him repeatedly, that his values and behavior are shit. But that his strengths are what makes him redeemable and worth building up. How about Davis, then? Well, he's a damn creep that can't damn keep his damn fetishes to his damn self. Better damn tell him to keep his damn thoughts to his damn self or he's damn out. He can be as much of a weirdo as he wants to be, but he's to keep it to himself and keep it professional.

Simple, right? Easier said than done, but now we have a focus. An end-game, a goal. The leaders of those problem personnel are to execute whatever means are necessary to help them improve, and if that doesn't work out, then it's very likely not the leader's fault. Not everyone will improve, but it doesn't mean they can't. If they're deciding on not improving, well. Throw the problem out the window and let them be some other company's problem.

[Jamini]

Reading through both Delta and Jamini's complaints, it looks like you both are looking for an ideal of Security, and are wanting the department shaped to your ideals (which I'm assuming is a very complete, almost police-like) security team. As I've said before, the station isn't going to be everything you want.

You both are wanting to boost Security up to a higher-standard, and want to place it in a locked-glass, where it protects your own ideal of Security.

 

Allow me to quote a friend of mine.

 

[3/18/2015 11:58:28 PM] Ikky: I still think the server wnaks security too hard

 

Do I want Security to be a perfect ideal force all the time?

Naw.

Do I want to see, and have other people see, Security being held accountable?

Yes.

Don't get me wrong, I like Jade. I like her, mostly, as an officer. She's fair, and she has personality. Some of my characters like her, others don't care, and some hate her.

My issue is that other officers can and do let her get away with minor shit more than they do. Even if she does get punished, it's not seen by the bulk of the crew. Allow me to quote another friend:

 

[9:37:15 AM] Nightmare 00:He walked away because he was pissed

[9:37:15 AM] Nightmare 00: And it was assumed that nothing would happen to jade

[9:37:23 AM] Nightmare 00: When you came to engineering and told him

[9:37:27 AM] Nightmare 00: he was walking to the brig

 

Appearances matter just as much as actions do. If no appearance of action is taken, resentments and accusations can form.

Were you not there when Clarke was reprimanded at for going to the captain regarding an improperly-set sentence? Being told off for "Breaking the blue Code", by a HOS no less. It's not the player-by-player attitudes that bother me, it's other players legitimizing said attitudes. It isn't limited to security, but it sure as hell is much more visible there.

If I were to play a shitty officer, I would expect to get arrested and anyone I caused trouble with to be apologized too.

[VoltageHero]

You both are wanting to boost Security up to a higher-standard, and want to place it in a locked-glass, where it protects your own ideal of Security.

 

And is there anything wrong with trying to influence, or in some cases, enforce certain ideals?

As Tenenza once told me, but correct me if I'm interpreting this incorrectly and I'm Hitler for doing so. When trying to get people (and characters, too) to improve, you often need to manipulate them to be better people. Is it against what your perception of fun is? Maybe, might be different for others as well. But I want people to actually respect what good security is and recognize that not even security is above the law.

And by this ideal and with potentially upcoming developments in terms of heads of staff communicating, we can improve the general atmosphere of the game and properly break down the worst of people and build up their strengths. Carton's great at talking to people, but his anger gets in the way of fucking everything, for example. How would certain people solve this? Manipulation. But by telling him repeatedly, that his values and behavior are shit. But that his strengths are what makes him redeemable and worth building up. How about Davis, then? Well, he's a damn creep that can't damn keep his damn fetishes to his damn self. Better damn tell him to keep his damn thoughts to his damn self or he's damn out. He can be as much of a weirdo as he wants to be, but he's to keep it to himself and keep it professional.

Simple, right? Easier said than done, but now we have a focus. An end-game, a goal. The leaders of those problem personnel are to execute whatever means are necessary to help them improve, and if that doesn't work out, then it's very likely not the leader's fault. Not everyone will improve, but it doesn't mean they can't. If they're deciding on not improving, well. Throw the problem out the window and let them be some other company's problem.

 

No. This is not justified in the least. This is asking people to change their RP, because you don't like it. You want players to change because you don't like how they are. You don't like the character, so you want it changed. Telling people they can't role-play their characters a certain way is something that I've said before it just wrong. The server isn't going to be tailored to a certain group, or even just a single person.

How do you think the players of Davis and Carton would feel if you just came up and said "ha, you can't role-play this character like this anymore, because a few players don't like it. Change them, or be prepared to lose your job every round".

That's not fair to the player, or even the community, if you're trying to shape a server to something you want it to look like. Just "throwing" a player's character out the window because you don't like their attitude work-habit, personality, or other things, no matter which department they belong to is pretty wrong.

And, as I stated previously, Security does get arrested for doing dumb things, so most officers are aware that they aren't above the law.

Don't play a "it's not realistic" card either, because realism only comes up when it's practical for the person. Either "realism doesn't matter" or "realism does matter".

In the end, people can role-play in whatever manner they want. If a character isn't liked, don't interact with them. Nobody is forcing you to play with Davis, Carton, or Rathel. Nobody is forcing your hand to play with them. Because of this, you don't need to try and get people to change their RP to suit your own needs.

Edit: @Jamini If the Code Blue issue was the same time as Nasir got arrested, I don't think I was. I was crashing constantly the entire round, and soon after being let out of the locker, I went to the medbay and stayed there, due to crashing. Was going to try and head to the brig, but my internet was being too sketchy. If there is something that happened during the time after I was arrested, (that wan't Nasir's arrest, which I think I understand more or less now), then there may have been a mistake that I did not see.

[Jamini]

How do you think the players of Davis and Carton would feel if you just came up and said "ha, you can't role-play this character like this anymore, because a few players don't like it. Change them, or be prepared to lose your job every round".

 

I will point out a fair number of people do and have tried exactly that with both of them.

Personally, all I want is in-round accountability. If Jade goes and throws crap or harasses crew, I want to see her fined/thrown into a cell for a few minutes. If Carton does something stupid and hits someone, I want to see him thrown in for assault and the person he attacked given an official apology.

I don't want these personalities REMOVED, but I do want them to be held accountable for what they do in-round. There is a middle ground, and that's what I want. Security doesn't need to be on a pedestal, but they do need to be accountable in a way that the rest of the station can see it.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Guest

[VoltageHero]

I don't want these personalities REMOVED, but I do want them to be held accountable for what they do.

 

Well, yeah. That makes sense, but the main issue I had with Delta's statement, is that he seemingly was asking these people to change altogether.

I could be wrong in the statement, but that's what I got from reading his previous post.

[Jamini]

Well, yeah. That makes sense, but the main issue I had with Delta's statement, is that he seemingly was asking these people to change altogether.

I could be wrong in the statement, but that's what I got from reading his previous post.

 

People change all the time, sometimes for the "better", sometimes for the "worse". If anything he stated that he wants to just influence how they change. I can't entirely disagree, though I wouldn't have put it the way he did.

Half of my issue with security is their image, more than anything. Image matters, and image is the primary recruitment tool for a department. It directly influences what types of characters and players join, and can drastically change how things play out.

Engineering is seen as slightly lazy, but dedicated and skillful. This directly results in a good number of enthusiastic apprentices who want to learn from the regulars there. New players are genuinely welcomed in the department, on a whole, even though it results in slightly slow response times.

Medical is seen as insular, and attracts doctors and interns who are good at one on one chats.

Science is seen as a bit wild, but efficient, and attracts scientists who are generally quite multi-skilled.

Security is seen as efficient, but a bit brutish, nosey, and foul-mouthed as hell. New officers tend to pick up those traits, which can be an issue when a cadet thinks it is okay to rush up to a suspect and break their rib.

If security has the image of getting away with minor crimes, even if it's untrue, you will have issues crop up with cadets that think they can get away with such. This brings the image and quality of the department down. While I do not want to put Security on a pedestal (in fact, I think the no-drinking rule in particular is kind of stupid) I do want to see players be genuinely happy to see an officer for a change.

[josh1133]

My argument against Security

by Joshua [REDACTED]

I will start off on a lighter note before I get into this shitstorm.

 

This is completely untrue. Carton himself has been arrested a few times for doing something amazingly dumb.

 

Thanks buddy, I preferred the term "Lost his cool for situations that did not call for it" but to be blunt yeah, he has lost his cool and done things that were simply irrational. But enough joking around!

 

Reading through both Delta and Jamini's complaints, it looks like you both are looking for an ideal of Security, and are wanting the department shaped to your ideals (which I'm assuming is a very complete, almost police-like) security team. As I've said before, the station isn't going to be everything you want.

 

To be fair, this is to a degree, what we should be like. We are the peacekeepers of the station and we should follow the rules that have been placed before us, as I was told once "We are private security" and at times I like to think we are just below the police, but should have the same level of professionalism in most situations.

But I will say, I find it fucking hilarious that this has basically become about Davis, Jade and Carton because lets be honest. It was from the very start, maybe with one or two officers in mind as well. Funny thing about that is, this whole Nasir situation? Rathel was asleep (( Voltage DC'd)), Carton said that the time was too long and agreed with the Detective, but the Warden, HOS, and Jawdat were the ones who put Nasir in there for thirty minutes.

Notice how they haven't been mentioned once though? I find that somewhat funny to say the least.

That being said, we do have to take responsibility for what our characters do, we are assholes of the station. Sometimes we do go overboard and we have to suffer the consequences of our actions. We should cool it down at certain times as well for OOC reasons, but we can talk about that another time.

I'll be honest, like Voltage I am a player who main's security so this post will be short, especially compared to the next post. For that I apologize, but I simply cannot turn off my bias, though I will not say I am not at fault for certain actions. Now for the next part.....

[josh1133]

My argument against Jaimi/Delta

By Joshua [REDACTED]

 

Yeah, man! The ends justify the means, even if a Taj engineer welded an SSD officer shut into a closet. And then slapping assault on them as well as Illegal Detention for good measure on them. Thaaat's justice.

 

Well. Yeah. I mean, he did commit Illegal detention by trapping her in a closet, we have slapped that charge on, and by definition he did do it. Assault was too far In my opinon, both IC and OOC. But this is the part that always annoys me.

No one can hold a god damn grudge if you are security without being called shitcurity

Since I have started Security over six months ago, I have seen Nasir:

Assault three officers, and one of the officers has not returned (( At least, I haven't seen him or heard his name mentioned)), since the assault. IC'ly, I assumed Nasir ended his career and scared him from ever coming back.

Stood outside medical bay after a Security officer was stabbed by a Assistant (( To be fair I don't remember the situation exactly, he was stabbed and I know Travis and Nasir stood outside and did the following, if this is canon or not, I am not sure but I considered it canon, if Nightmare ask me though I will void it)) with Travis Davis and insulted the downed officer with comments like "Stupid dog", "It's what he deserved" etc etc. He did this in front of three officers who were worried for their friend, and laughed at the fact the man was hurt in the line of duty.

Almost every time we have a call down to arrest a engineer or one of Nasir's friends, we slightly dread it because it turns into a thirty minute thing of arguing with Nasir and him threatening us/ wanting to fight/ etc etc.

So yes. You bet your ass that Nasir now has a repuation with most of security to the point where the moment his name is mentioned, all we think about is the shit he has done, gotten away with, etc etc and we go after him.

We count every insult he throws at us as a charge of insulting a officer, every threat of a fight as threatening, we stack up the charges because that is all we can do against a person like Nasir. So it may not be "Justice", but if you are telling us we can't hold a grudge IC then I'm sorry but you can't tell me how to make my character feel.

That being said, 30 minutes is still very excessive and was far too much, it should not have happened and I will say that IC and OOC until my voice is gone.

 

Honestly, I feel most of security are fine. However, a few notable individuals really can sour the whole department easily, and the "Blue Code" argument makes me genuinely angry with people who defend said individuals. While I understand that everyone is an individual; an individual who is crass, abusive, rude, and insubordinate is as unlikely to remain in security.

 

've called out medical on issues before, specifically with both a CMO and two surgeons who resulted directly in a needless death. You don't see me call out engineering because I generally try and resolve such issues ICly, as that is generally where I play and I can address issues there directly.

 

I just wanted to put these two quotes together because of two reasons. First of all, if you truly believe you are unbias, you really need to rethink that. That is like me saying I am unbias towards Security, we are all a little bias and judging by your past post, you are bias to engineering.

As for the first quote, every department has that. Especially Engineering, to be frank, Security and Engineering are not that different in my opinion, they hate each other but at the end of the day a lot of characters are the same. I be glad to make a list of comparisons if I really need too.

 

As one of the officers involved, and a player that made an IC complaint and a complaint to the admins, as well as someone who talked to Nightmare OOCly after the incident... Yes, it was an issue. He seemed bothered by it when I was talking to him post-round. Perhaps he wasn't bothered severely, but he was definitely bothered and irritated.

As was I.

I like Nightmare, and I am unsure if he is aware of this but I also play one of the Therapist that talks to Nasir when he is on. OOC wise, Nasir is a great character and my Psych views him as a very nice, caring person. As Carton though, he has attacked my Co-workers IC, insulted my friends who have been injured protecting him and his friends, etc etc. Now, thirty minutes is again, way too much, but I hope he is at least aware that we do hold grudges IC against him so I'm hoping he knows that we are going to be as harsh as we can possibly be against him.

Not to mention the fact, is that there other characters like Nasir that the group of Security holds as "Trouble makers" "Nuisances", and it always gets to me, always does when those players get arrested after so many times that Security just starts being assholese in general to them, they talk in Dsay or LOOC "Oh Shitcurity at it again" or "Officer [Redacted] Being a asshole again" because it sounds like they just brush it off as "Its just this person on a power trip, I didn't do anything wrong" and it /really/ gets to me to the point where I have to pass the persons character over to another officer at this point because I am to bias OOC wise to deal with them. They don't have to stop calling us shit, in fact I even call Carton Shitcurity, but it seems like these players don't even take responsibilty or don't assume we will remember what they have done.

Again, I am not saying the 30 minutes was alright, but I am saying that players need to be aware Security are people too, and they do hold grudges after enough incidents

I do like Nasir, OOC wise I have gotten to know him as both Carton and my therapist and I find it interesting each time I interact with him.

 

I do not play favorites. I never have, and I never will. Security is just as responsible for their screw-ups as any other department, even more-so when security members start playing favorites with corrupt officers. When it is to the point where I outright have another player tell me that the only reason they were unwilling to trust an unknown officer is because they did not believe that I would detain another officer who committed a break in regulations in front of me based on prior experience with security, there is indeed an issue.

 

I have seen both OOC and IC wise I have seen Engineering kill a person they all agreed they do not like (( Though this was not a canon round and was justified imo)), I have seen them turn Engineering into a fortress to keep Nuke ops out only to cause more problems for the ERT/ Security trying to take down the ops. I have seen them create huge incidents for arresting one of their own on a minor charge. Hell, one time they made a ambrosia plant in the construction area and sold Ambrosia to everyone on the station until we raided them. (( This was done by Kingmatt))

I am not saying any of this is bad, but I am simply putting this out here because you: A) Mostly play engineering, which is why I am comparing the two so much. B)It shows you every department does things, not as much as Security Ofc but we all have a reputation.

 

Personally, I'm very much leaning towards instating one-stop you're-fucking-dropped-from-the-team protocols as HoS. The shit Jamini complains about regularly is often what I have to put up with now, and I'm pretty sick of having to tell everyone twice. Yes, this is a game and not every round should have an incident report filed out. But with certain problem characters consistently behaving the way they do, it's very difficult to be able to take responsibility for my failure to clear up what is right and what is wrong, because this is a very common issue that I make very clear that I am absolutely not tolerant of, ICly.

 

Alright. I can get behind that. I made my character to be a "Antagonist" or to be blunt, someone like this and if IC actions are taken I won't complain OOC wise.

 

But as someone who wants to help people improve in security, I find it really difficult to be able to trust people in my own freaking department to not cause World War of Civil Rights, which is absolutely unacceptable.

 

I think you have too little faith in characters, but to be fair we are dicks IC and I am one of them so I won't disagree either.

 

And is there anything wrong with trying to influence, or in some cases, enforce certain ideals?

 

No. Not IC wise at least. In fact I support it.

 

Carton's great at talking to people, but his anger gets in the way of fucking everything, for example. How would certain people solve this? Manipulation. But by telling him repeatedly, that his values and behavior are shit. But that his strengths are what makes him redeemable and worth building up.

 

I enjoyed this, he knew what you were doing and it only pissed him off more, but I enjoyed this greatly. I encourage you to keep doing this with other characters.

 

Throw the problem out the window and let them be some other company's problem.

 

annnnd you lost me. See, that's where I have a problem. I usually would agree with you, but I don't think you, I, anyone really has the right to say "Yeah your character is now fired because these heads have a problem with your attitude. So. Your character is done. You can't play them anymore". No, I suggest a...different approach. Re-assign them to civilian roles. Librarian, Bartender, Janitor, etc, maybe make them medical interns, engineering apprentices, etc etc. But the moment you say "Your character is stressing me out IC and OOC wise, they cause problems, so I'm going make sure your character is fired, and end your character basically " is kind of ...fucked up? I mean. I use to play on MC Roleplays where it was either the person's choice to have their character leave, or another person would have to Roleplay fight them and once one of the characters died there was nothing else you can do. But having some captain go "Naw. I don't like the way you do things, your fired" and then you are told you can't bring the character back? That is such a bullshit ending to a character it leaves a disgusting taste in my mouth. Everyone has the right to end their character, and ending someone's character, ending other people's stories with that character, all the months spent Roleplaying with them, building their character up and having development only to be fired because you find them to be horrible and stressful?

I'm actually a little angry you are so alright with ripping a character, months or roleplay, and other people who have stories with that character because of the stress. Have them switched to a different department, have them go to mandatory psych evaluations, anything...but ...I have no more words for this.

 

"throwing" a player's character out the window because you don't like their attitude work-habit, personality, or other things, no matter which department they belong to is pretty wrong.

 

I agree, and I was not going to post until this became a issue.

 

I don't want these personalities REMOVED, but I do want them to be held accountable for what they do in-round. There is a middle ground, and that's what I want. Security doesn't need to be on a pedestal, but they do need to be accountable in a way that the rest of the station can see it.

 

I agree.

 

Engineering is seen as slightly lazy, but dedicated and skillful. This directly results in a good number of enthusiastic apprentices who want to learn from the regulars there. New players are genuinely welcomed in the department, on a whole, even though it results in slightly slow response times.

 

This is true, but there is more. At least, not for some of us. They are viewed as Gang, even ask a few a few of the old engineering players, they will say "Yeah Engineering is a gang". Not that it's bad or anything, in fact a department that is so close is something that should be encouraged. Thats actually what we should all strive for, but Engineering has killed a person before, they also turned that one empty room (( The construction area?)) into a ambrosia farm before and Security had to raid it. During a extended round. That being said, what you said is true.

Roy Wyatt, Conservan Xiulle (( I am so sorry if I butchered that name)), Oliver Stefan, Jade Ravera, Etc etc are all great engineers I am always excited to see on station. Just be aware, Engineering is not just seen that way.

 

Medical is seen as insular, and attracts doctors and interns who are good at one on one chats.

 

I actually see Medical as the most terrifying place on the station. I have gotten to personally know quite a few of the doctors and...Ill be honest. Im afraid both IC and OOC wise to piss most of them off. What you said is, once again true, but there is more to it then just that.

 

Science is seen as a bit wild, but efficient, and attracts scientists who are generally quite multi-skilled.

Again, it might just be me but after I been shot quite a few times both as my medical character and my security character, I view most of Science as batshit insane who, unless they have certain people in the department, will kill us all.

Kidding...Kinda. I mean...sorta...They aren't that bad...But they are crazy and they can make a shift either really fun, or a shift...very...very...very...very...very...very...very...very hard.

 

Security is seen as efficient, but a bit brutish, nosey, and foul-mouthed as hell. New officers tend to pick up those traits, which can be an issue when a cadet thinks it is okay to rush up to a suspect and break their rib.

 

This is true. We are nosey, our job sometimes require it, but Ill admit we are more nosey then we should be a lot of the times too. We are Brutish, well can be. If its our job to take you down, we are going too. Sometimes we skip right to the batons because well...We aren't always the most robust, we run into our pepper spray, we flash ourselves, etc etc. To be honest, the Baton is just the easiest thing besides the taser. We are also foul mouth, but you have a engineer walk up to you and explain in extreme detail horrible acts done to children (( Which has actually happened and I will not go into more detail then that)) and then ask if you like what you hear because he is bored. After about 9 shifts over and over again of that happening to you for 2 hours, one tends to be a little sour when coming to work. Not saying any of this is justified at all, but I simply feel the need to say all this now.

Final Thoughts!

That being all said, I feel like I picked on Engineering a lot here, and for that I apologize. I enjoy all of the players who play engineering, I enjoy the characters and I truly hope I did not offend you, if I did please say so, I would like to apologize and maybe make my point more clear or retract it if I worded it horribly (( As I tend to do))

I was not going to post all this, I am bias, I felt bad for Voltage as he was arguing with two people at once so I hope you guys don't mind me stepping in to help him at least a little.

But even with everything you said, I understood everything you said and to a degree, I agree with you. We do need to tone it down at times and such.

But.

 

Not everyone will improve, but it doesn't mean they can't. If they're deciding on not improving, well. Throw the problem out the window and let them be some other company's problem.

 

Actually got under my skin. To destroy a players character, months of roleplay...Lets take Carton for example, as he has a report right now that is asking for him to be fired and its my character so I know him best. (( I will say this now, I may be taking this a little hard as it is my character, one I am attached too emotionally so again, bias))

Carton started off on Station

Carton tried to make friends as a nice officer

Carton was harassed by Medical/ Engineering/ Science every time he tried to talk

Carton got angry

Carton began to become more confrontational, yelling and screaming

Carton attacked Travis Davis and nearly started a fight with Nasir after insulting a officer who had been stabbed

Carton met Chenmo.

Carton began therapy with Doctor Baranova

After multiple sessions, Carton calmed down for a while

Therapy stopped, Carton was confronted by a person who claimed to do some very horrible stuff and lost his cool

Carton then decided to take his anger out on people who deserved it

Carton met Dalton, began working for him

Sessions begin with Baranova again, though he finds it harder to control himself with pressures from a friend of his

Carton begins dating Chenmo

Carton begins investigating the Jawdats.

Carton brings his evidence to the IAA and the Jawdat investigation begins

Carton begins to investigate more, and eventually confronts Houssam

Carton begins to open up to multiple people, sharing much about himself with a few he calls his friends

Carton gets married

Carton admits to Baranova quite a bit about himself, and he starts sessions again

Stressful situations at home cause Carton to break down twice in front of most of the crew, once in the bar, once on the shuttle.

Carton is jumped by two people, and despite not actually assaulting one of them as he was trying to get better, he is given a option by Vira to shape up or be fired

Knowing what she is doing, he tries to keep his job, but after being shot for litterally no reason, he loses his cool and punches someone in the face

Carton assumes he is now fired, and has decided to be a complete asshole his final days on station while still doing his job.

There is a lot more...a lot more, thats what I can remember in two minutes. But you know. Just go ahead and fire him, because all the friends who had RP with him, my what now...5 months of playing him, that doesn't mean anything. I mean, he is just too stressful to deal with as a head so instead of just making him a bartender or librarian lets just make me get rid of the character, right?

But if were doing that. I want Nasir Ha'kim gone too for the multiple assaults. I want Jade gone. I want Travis, I want Walter Keck for his record mentioning possible rape charges against him, I want anyone who has ever done the do at work fired, I want Avery fired for his records, I want Essel fired for the complaints against her, I want Jaylor fired for being a former pirate, I want anyone with the last name Jawdat fired for being involved in organized crime for a little. I want every botanist who ever grew Ambrosia fired, I want all Tarajans to be fired since they are Rebels in a rebellion that Nanotrasen doesn't approve of. I want IPC who talk badly about Nano even once fired because they might turn against us and become our cybernetic overlords.

If you can't tell. I don't really want those people fired, and if they were, I would probably resign as a mod after this post because of how bad I would feel. Point was, you should not rip people's characters away because they are stressful to deal with, that's unfair. Find another solution.

Again. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Edit: I actually feel really bad on how much I ripped Engineering on this one, they are a fantastic department the one or two times I tried to join them as a engineer and are some of the nicest faces on the station both OOC and IC wise. Again, going to apologize if I offended any of them, or anyone else for that matter but I really just went after Engineering so special apology to them. They deal with a lot of shit, rebuilding the station when Security accidently blows up a fuel tank or when the Nuke ops blow up the bar, etc etc and they deserve a lot of credit for what they do as it can sometimes take up their entire round. So again, sorry and thank you.