[Resolved] Staff Complaint -- pratepresedenten, sampletex

[Guest]

BYOND Key: moom241
Staff BYOND Key: pratepresidenten, sampletex
Game ID: Can't recall, was a couple separate rounds on 5/25/2021
Reason for complaint: Contesting a ruling regarding the eligibility of a character. I was first contacted by tex, who asked about my character, Guddin Af Aurora's, accent. I believe it was just clarifying questions about whether it was just a heavy accent. I was told it was too much, and I replied that I would try to find a middle ground. Later on I played a round in the evening, and tried to tone it down a little, but I admit it wasn't easy to find a good spot without it seeming to break believability of his accent changing so radically and so quickly. As I was going to cryo, prate contacted me and told me that I had to either change how Guddin spoke or choose a different job for him because his accent was a speech impediment. I was rather upset and informed him that I would scrap the character, however after some reflection I decided to contest this decision.

 

On reviewing the job accessibility requirements on the wiki, the Engineering Apprentice's "speech" requirement is listed as "speech impediment". The wiki definition even has one of the possible reasons for a speech impediment as a "heavy accent". Guddin has always been able to speak and understand Tau Ceti, even with his accented speech, and has quickly integrated with the engineering crew.
Evidence/logs/etc: https://i.imgur.com/OY0YZCX.png
Additional remarks: Because of the way I've built Guddin, there's really nowhere for him to go outside of engineering, because that's all he knows. And his accent is a defining trait of his that gives him flavor and lets him stand out as a character. I understand whatever decision the staff makes, but there isn't much other way for me to play him.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Aboshedab

[Guest]

Just bumping to make sure this has been seen.

[Faris]

I'll be handling this complaint.

I'd like @Pratepresidentenand/or @SampleTex to post their side on it.

[Pratepresidenten]

I dont really have too much to add, really.

I dealt with a concerned ahelp and looked into it, and from the looks of it with the new disability rework and the fact that me myself needed to put in all my brainpower to understand the character's speech most of the time, that pretty much ticked the "Too fucked speech to work in engineering" box.

Im sure it'd be more comprehensible in actual voice than exaggerated text, as are all things, or maybe its just me that cant piece together your accent for shit because Im a smoothbrain, but all in all, I'd hate to see you nuke a character you enjoy playing, so I hope there is some form of compromise to be made here.

[Guest]

I have played this character without trouble for about three months, and only now has there been a single ahelp that you describe as just "concerned". Other players have not had trouble figuring out guddin's speech with a little acclimation. It remains a heavy accent, which according to the rules in the wiki, is allowed on an engineering character.

 

Edit: Also, is the new disability rework you're talking about this one? 

This one being two months old, with Guddin working under them since they were implemented.

Edited May 30, 2021 by moom241
Additional Points Added

[Pratepresidenten]

This is indeed the reform I am referring to.

3 hours ago, moom241 said:

I have played this character without trouble for about three months, and only now has there been a single ahelp that you describe as just "concerned". Other players have not had trouble figuring out guddin's speech with a little acclimation. It remains a heavy accent, which according to the rules in the wiki, is allowed on an engineering character.

As for this, a problem isnt a problem until someone notices it, really. Personally I dont mind your character at all, even if I have stupid amounts of problems understanding him sometimes, but again, thats just me.

Someone took issue, I asked for an opinion on the matter and made the call accordingly. If it was the wrong call, that remains to be seen.

[SampleTex]

I have no problems with the character, and when I initially messaged you I wanted to give you a heads up that Guddin was incomprehensible to some players and was dancing the line of heavy speech impediment, which would prevent them from working in engineering. I didn't want to see the character get shelfed or deleted either, so I felt a nudge to tweak the accent to be a little more easily understood from a player (but not necessarily in character) perspective would be appropriate. I was really only trying to help nudge you in a good direction so that this issue wouldn't arise the way it did.

[Guest]

Thanks to you both for responding to my complaint. You've both be respectful and honest to me in this complaint and in staff DMs in-game and I appreciate that.

 

I guess my main 2 points are as follows.

1: Guddin Af Aurora is a viable character according to the letter of the rules. In the image shared, prate says that his heavy accent is a speech impediment, which is correct. Speech impediments are, however, allowed for engineering jobs and as such, by prate's own description, Guddin should not be disqualified from an engineering apprentice's position.

2: If he is disqualified for having a "too heavy accent", then the line is subjective and vague. So subjective and vague that it had gone without notice for two whole months, and the staff in question does not actually have a problem with the character. It would also make correcting the speech unreasonably difficult, as I would either have to modify his speech so much as to be implausible and damaging to the character's personality, or be not enough and the possibility of being pinged again in the near or far future will be hanging over the character.

[Faris]

In terms of how the rules are written, heavy accents are permitted for engineering.

That being said, I can see the issue that is being brought up here and that is the ability to really be able to understand what is being said. For me personally, I'd say it's a 50/50 on what I'm able to understand when Guddin speaks, be it when I play, observe or logs are sent to me. So I can see why staff and players might think it is Heavy Speech Impediment. 

I live in a place with a lot of tourists, and when I'm stopped for questions, sometimes I speak more plainly or adjust my speech a bit when I'm told people are having trouble understanding me due to our accents despite speaking the same language. Would you say your character is capable of rephrasing if asked to rephrase/clarify in a way that more comprehensible? That doesn't have to always be their speech, only when prompted or when your character feels it is vital. 

Example from a log I have. 

Before: Enjenn ess dunn, walkah.

After: Eng-gine ess done.

Something like this, you'd be able to retain this aspect of your character while being able to clarify to people that do not initially understand. You can also tie in some NT sponsored speech class be it willingly or forced.

[Guest]

Well, he's not gonna stop calling people "walkah", but joking aside I don't see much issue with him being able to slow down and enunciate when asked to. 

[Faris]

22 minutes ago, moom241 said:

I don't see much issue with him being able to slow down and enunciate when asked to. 

I feel this this essentially solves the issue you've brought up, and at the same time is accomplishes what Tex and Prate were also looking for. 

I'll assume this is resolved if nothing new is presented in the next 24 hours. 

[Guest]

I think I'll also have Guddin be forced to listen to "Freespeak to Basic" style learning tapes for justification of his return to work. 

 

If the compromise is reached, am I now able to play Guddin as an engineering apprentice again?

[Faris]

5 minutes ago, moom241 said:

I think I'll also have Guddin be forced to listen to "Freespeak to Basic" style learning tapes for justification of his return to work. 

 

If the compromise is reached, am I now able to play Guddin as an engineering apprentice again?

Yes.

[Faris]

Locking and archiving.