Warning from Garnascus

[NotASpider]

BYOND Key: Cooleosis

Staff BYOND Key: Garnascus

Game ID: chr-dH1z

Reason for complaint:

Received a warning by Garnascus saying that eavesdropping using intercoms as AI is validhunting and only acceptable with very good IC reason, examples given being instructed to do so or if there’s an open investigation on the person in question.

Here’s the background; I’m playing AI, and it’s a slow round. The most exciting thing I’ve done is investigate what turned out to be a fake .45 pistol sitting in mining. We’re about an hour in and I notice Eden Li and Ruu-something (unathi names are impossible to remember fully, he was a vampire) sitting in the medical examination room with an intercom. Of course I’m curious, so I do the trick of setting the intercom to the ‘AI private’ channel, disable the speaker, and enable the microphone.

I caught 4 messages at the end of their conversation. Ruu (the unathi, as a reminder, which did factor into my decision making) admitted to biting someone, Eden asked who, Ruu ID’d the person, Eden acknowledged and hinted that he was being threatened by Ruu to steal blood packs.

As a medbay main I know that Eden is a really robust RPer. Also on station are a CMO and HoS who I trust to make some good RP instead of just starting shit. With that in mind I call HoS to their office and relay the four messages I heard exactly through the holopad, my RP being that it was like a recording of the conversation that my AI had saved. After HoS meets with CMO I do the same thing on the CMO office holopad with both of them present, as instructed. During the search I also relay Eden's suit sensor location to security, again as requested.

Minutes later I get bwoinked by Garnascus, get told the explanation above, and receive a warning.

 

Why I’m complaining:

1. I truly, vehemently believe that snooping as AI isn’t validhunting or powergaming. All AIs do it, the wiki has it listed as a useful tip on the AI page (edited after my posting to include the valid hunting part because I made a bit of a stink about it), and I made a report to security with the information in the same way any other crew who overheard what I overheard would. At worst it could be considered poor sportsmanship to snitch if what I heard was ‘hold until transfer’ worthy.

2. There’s IC counterplay to AI eavesdropping, the lights on the intercomms change. It’s a subtle difference, but it’s not an autowin. I’ve noticed and ICly called out AIs for doing it before.

3. Nothing that I did ‘shut down’ the antag in any meaningful way. You were right, Garnascus, the AI isn’t supposed to be big brother, the AI is supposed to involve as many people in RP as possible, which I did. The story continued with more crew involved. At worst the information I gave would have resulted in an assault charge, which isn’t anywhere near a ‘fuck you no more RP’ scenario. Also this round notably didn’t end in the usual hulk vs sec shitfest.

4. I’m pretty sure the antag in question wasn’t even the one who ahelped on me in the first place, it was Eden. This is only a hunch because Eden sent an LOOC that said ‘sorry was busy ahelping’ during their first interaction with security. Plus, after transfer lots of people were saying how much fun the round was.

 

Logs/etc: Here’s the warning

Additional remarks: Remove AI.

Edited April 15, 2022 by NotASpider

[Garnascus]

You admitted in the ticket to eavesdropping on the situation because you where bored. The second the unathi said something which could be considered a crime you copy and pasted what he said over thsecurity channel. This is literally the definition of validhunting.

 

 

8 minutes ago, NotASpider said:

ll AIs do it, the wiki has it listed as a useful tip on the AI page

The wiki has already been updated to be consistent with server rules. 

 

9 minutes ago, NotASpider said:

2. There’s IC counterplay to AI eavesdropping

There is counterplay to most things that break the server rules. They are still against the rules. 

 

12 minutes ago, NotASpider said:

3. Nothing that I did ‘shut down’ the antag in any meaningful way.

The quicker security catches wind of what the antag is doing the sooner the antag gets thrown in a cell. We ought avoid overt measures that allow this to happen. Eavesdropping on people because you are bored as AI qualifies as an overt measure. 

 

13 minutes ago, NotASpider said:

4. I’m pretty sure the antag in question wasn’t even the one who ahelped on me in the first place, it was Eden.

The person who ahelped a particular issue is not, and never has been relevant. Issues are investigated on their own merit. 

[NotASpider]

42 minutes ago, Garnascus said:

You admitted in the ticket to eavesdropping on the situation because you where bored.

Correct. This is a common practice for AI players because we're bored 95% of the time. Not saying that if everyone breaks rules then it's okay, but I really genuinely believe that this isn't/shouldn't be against the rules. It obviously hasn't been a problem until now if the wiki hadn't been updated until literally today. And even if this ends up in not my favor, I'll invite you to be on the lookout for just how often it happens. The bright pink "AI private" radio color is hard to miss.

 

42 minutes ago, Garnascus said:

The second the unathi said something which could be considered a crime you copy and pasted what he said over thsecurity channel. This is literally the definition of validhunting.

Not over the security channel, privately to the HoS as if playing a transcript, as mentioned in the OP. 'Literal textbook validhunting' or 'reporting something to the relevant IC people'? Two extremes for sure.

 

42 minutes ago, Garnascus said:

The quicker security catches wind of what the antag is doing the sooner the antag gets thrown in a cell.

Thrown in a cell for 4 minutes on minor assault or 15 minutes on regular assault != story and RP over. The story for sure didn't end with the brigging on that round.

 

That's all I've really got. I made my peace, you made yours, we'll see what happens.

Edited April 15, 2022 by NotASpider

[Garnascus]

Is there a reason that when you mentioned the wiki maintainers in our general discord you cropped your warning? They where quite surprised when i showed them the entire warning and explained the context to them. 

[NotASpider]

I really thought that in the round you were doing the customer service thing of going 'I'll get right on that' and never doing anything, so I wanted to make sure the wiki would be changed. I also assumed that you'd try to get me in deeper shit if I posted the whole thing, and you made it pretty clear that eavesdropping is blanketly against the rules with only very explicit exceptions, so for those two reasons I only sent exactly what was relevant.

[Arrow768]

I´ll handle that complaint.

I have to agree with @Garnascus, that your behavior is considered validhunting and not something that we want to see from AI whitelisted players.

A lot of antags rely on stealth to achieve their objectives.
By outing them to security you have (obviously) alerted security that there might be something wrong with that character.
After they are out of the cell it is quite likely that security will watch them using their own camera consoles thereby making it much more difficult for the antag to operate unmolested.

To address some of the things you mentioned:
It doesnt matter too much if you mentioned that conversation on the security channel or directly to the HoS.
In either case, security has been alerted to the antagonist.
We have specifically updated the laws to reduce the situations where AIs are obligated to report antagonists to security/command.
(Note the "gain entry to high security areas", with the "high security areas" being defined in the Station Procedures and other alterations)

The question when playing AI often isnt if you see/hear something but what you do with it.
Often the preferred solution is to not notice / report on something unless you are specifically asked about it (or required by your laws to report it)

 

Given that watching/listening to people (because you are bored) and immediately reporting them to security in case they do something suspicious (that you are not required to report by your laws) is not something we want to see from AI players I find the warning from @Garnascus to be justified.

[Arrow768]

If there are no further comments within 48 hours I will close this complaint.

[Arrow768]

Complaint closed.