Riflebutting/pistol-whipping.

[Guest]

Uh, Delta, did I just read riflebutting or pistol-whipping as your thread title?...

Yes, I did. Allow me to explain.

So, in a situation in which an armed suspect is shouting down civilians to hit the floor, there is the rare chance in which the 'hero' will get up from the floor and try to shout down the guy with a gun.

Ideally,

is how it should turn out. Not so much as jabbing the barrel of an M16 into someone's gut, but you get the point. This change would allow for stick-up artists to maintain control over a situation without having to resort to blasting someone's head off when the hero decides to try to disarm. Alternatively, in more dire (mostly, code red) situations, this allows for security to use... an unconventional method to make someone who is screaming their lungs off to shush it.

The basic concept: Using disarm intent and clicking on a nearby human-type mob will deal out a significant amount of brute damage, agony, and a short stun if applied to the chest. If targeting the head, there's a high chance you will effectively render them unconscious, with a rare chance of inflicting a concussion. Hitting the groin will apply a very long stun, but with risks for damaging the kidneys from the outside, as well as possibly applying hairline fractures to the legs due to the shock.

The drawbacks to this are thusly: Meleeing with your weapon (assuming it has a stock, ergonomic grip or a long barrel to bludgeon or jab with) does a mild amount of damage with some pretty nasty consequences attached to them, so spamming this repeatedly is not ideal. Unless you want to pistolwhip someone to death, which is fine, if you have reason to do so. However, the first weaponmelee attack is going to be noticeably stronger than follow-up melees. The effects applied will be much weaker than their intended effect if you only used it once. Armor also negates the weaponmelee debuffs entirely, but still rolls for absorption or softening damage.

tl;dr, you can make people hurt a lot for trying to run up to the guy with a gun without killing them outright.

Also, don't consider this suggestion high-priority.

[Serveris]

Uh, Delta, did I just read riflebutting or pistol-whipping as your thread title?...

Yes, I did. Allow me to explain.

So, in a situation in which an armed suspect is shouting down civilians to hit the floor, there is the rare chance in which the 'hero' will get up from the floor and try to shout down the guy with a gun.

Ideally,

is how it should turn out. Not so much as jabbing the barrel of an M16 into someone's gut, but you get the point. This change would allow for stick-up artists to maintain control over a situation without having to resort to blasting someone's head off when the hero decides to try to disarm. Alternatively, in more dire (mostly, code red) situations, this allows for security to use... an unconventional method to make someone who is screaming their lungs off to shush it.

The basic concept: Using disarm intent and clicking on a nearby human-type mob will deal out a significant amount of brute damage, agony, and a short stun if applied to the chest. If targeting the head, there's a high chance you will effectively render them unconscious, with a rare chance of inflicting a concussion. Hitting the groin will apply a very long stun, but with risks for damaging the kidneys from the outside, as well as possibly applying hairline fractures to the legs due to the shock.

The drawbacks to this are thusly: Meleeing with your weapon (assuming it has a stock, ergonomic grip or a long barrel to bludgeon or jab with) does a mild amount of damage with some pretty nasty consequences attached to them, so spamming this repeatedly is not ideal. Unless you want to pistolwhip someone to death, which is fine, if you have reason to do so. However, the first weaponmelee attack is going to be noticeably stronger than follow-up melees. The effects applied will be much weaker than their intended effect if you only used it once. Armor also negates the weaponmelee debuffs entirely, but still rolls for absorption or softening damage.

tl;dr, you can make people hurt a lot for trying to run up to the guy with a gun without killing them outright.

Also, don't consider this suggestion high-priority.

 

Currently, laser rifles get a melee damage bonus when wielded, due to the attacker having a better grip on the weapon.

(5 brute damage for one handed strikes, 10 brute damage for a two handed riflebutt.)

As of now, this has potential to crack bones on the victim, and is a fairly robust weapon. I feel like making the accommodations you've outlined here would be relatively simple to accomplish, but feel the concept should be discussed a bit more between the dev team and the community.

[Guest]

There's a reason Batons and Rifles are seperate items.

RifleBatons would be too OP, especially if they deal organ damage.

[NebulaFlare]

I have one question.

Do you play Guild Wars 2?

[Guest]

There's a reason Batons and Rifles are seperate items.

RifleBatons would be too OP, especially if they deal organ damage.

 

The guy with the rifle should have the edge here. Not the guy with nothing but his hands and RNG wanting to be cruel.

Try batonning someone in the groin sometime. It's not pleasant if they get out alive. Because, in a few minutes, they won't be.

[Cassie]

A number of SS13 crewmen were found severely injured or dead in medbay, their organs had perforated and bruise marks were scattered all over their bodies. Centcom inquired about why the amount of crew causalities increased after security interrogation. Security told them that corrolation does not mean caustation and that they all fell down the stairs.

On the station, there were no stairs.

On serious note, man, I'm 50/50 on this one. Stunning seems okay, organ brute damage is kinda meh. Skull fractures seem reasonable, but in the midsection - not so much.

[Serveris]

A number of SS13 crewmen were found severely injured or dead in medbay, their organs had perforated and bruise marks were scattered all over their bodies. Centcom inquired about why the amount of crew causalities increased after security interrogation. Security told them that corrolation does not mean caustation and that they all fell down the stairs.

On the station, there were no stairs.

On serious note, man, I'm 50/50 on this one. Stunning seems okay, organ brute damage is kinda meh. Skull fractures seem reasonable, but in the midsection - not so much.

 

You realize security are not the only ones with weapons, yes?

[Guest]

Chance of concussion + skull fracture, actually. And the rolls are independent, so you'll either get one or the other, neither, or both if you're really unlucky.

If you had a shotgun barrel jabbed into your rib to disable you, you'll probably suffer from a rib snapping. And then the fragmenting bones just jiggling around in your body.

If it's way too nuts, it can be toned down to the point where it's "eh" but still something to be afraid of.

[Guest]

Im just saying, even the most robust melee weapons on the station like the Fire-axe and the E-sword dont have a guaranteed stun on hit.

Even the good ol' harmbaton doesnt stun if the Baton doesnt have any charge. A stun /and/ organ damage on hit would make these way OP.

[Skull132]

Yes and no. Something that is already in the code (I think, I know I toyed with it, but this was over 9 months ago) is rifles doing more melee damage while held. I think keeping it like that is fine. Adding in abilities for stun from rifle strikes would negate some of the play between different powers. Namely, you have immense capacity at a distance, and even at close range (harm intent + click while right next to someone = point blank shot), but when out of ammo, you should rightfully lose that capacity.

[Cassie]

You realize security are not the only ones with weapons, yes?

Yeah I know. It was written quite tongue-in-cheek. Though apart from the bartender, security tends to have armor/helmets so this really won't be affecting them that often, unless they removed it.

My only genuine comment is the last sentence, however. I think if there was a restriction somehow on people full-on using it as a buff melee weapon it wouldn't be much of a deal.

[Guest]

As long as its understood that Security who do this to people are subject to demotion and brigging, Im good with it. Since you know, even the US which hasnt even accepted all of the Geneva Conventions has pistol whipping outlawed for their armed forces. (I think I read this somewhere?)

[Guest]

As long as its understood that Security who do this to people are subject to demotion and brigging, Im good with it. Since you know, even the US which hasnt even accepted all of the Geneva Conventions has pistol whipping outlawed for their armed forces. (I think I read this somewhere?)

 

That's fine by me. The intention is mostly to give power to antagonists toting gats.

Though, to kind of address Skull's point, which is the advantage one armed combatant has over another, often this is range.

Yes, the ranged combatant should definitely be punished for not conserving their ammunition. Sucking badly will result in a sucky, anticlimactic end for you.

But, hey. The guy with the gun also has an unconventional club.

If anything, nix the possibility for internal organs being rekt just by one hit. I mostly only suggested that to make abusive security officers who aren't antags actually pay for their abusiveness.

[Blue]

Question. Why can't you cuff them, if you're the hostage-taker dude?

[Vanagandr]

Question. Why can't you cuff them, if you're the hostage-taker dude?

Partly because the instant someone hears 'ogod a gun' every sec officer on the station is going to converge on you, so you're busy trying to hold the goon squad back, and partly because the moment you devote attention to cablecuffing one single hostage in particular, Usain Bolt off in the corner will decide he wants to go for a relaxing mid-shift sprint.