1138, Jauntla

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

BYOND Key: Jackboot

Player Byond Key: 1138

Reason for complaint:

Delta was on the outpost as Jauntla, and told the crew over public comms that if anyone came to robust her or whatever, she'd open fire on them.

Houssam was communicating with Luna, who was turned into an informant against Jauntla and gave Houssam the syndie code phrase. Houssam used the code phrase which Jauntla heard, identifying himself as an antagonist.

He goes on the outpost shuttle, and verifies the code with Luna.

Then the second the shuttle arrives at the research outpost, like the second, while I'm still sitting in the pilot seat, Jauntla empties her entire laser carbine into me before I have a chance to say anything, and I die within 12 seconds.

The funny thing is, he justified it in LOOC as "I warned you bro" despite my code phrase usage, and then he didn't shoot victor and the borg until they waltzed into the dock proper. I can't prove it perhaps, but I'm going to assume that allowing everyone except Houssam to waltz on up to her is some form of grudge, there.

This was a blatant use of gank. Like I didn't even have a weapon, armour, or anything. I was still in the shuttle, and was going to raise my arms and stay on the shuttle, but nope, split second entire clip into my skull.

Approximate Date/Time: 4.10.2457 3:38pm UST

[Guest]

This is a very silly complaint.

Outlining in IC that anyone that would come after me, would be fired upon. And then carrying out that threat, is suddenly gank. Oh, and I outlined this multiple times.

What you did not know is that I was coordinating with another traitor at the time, my headset frequency was changed during this time. I may or may not have picked up on what was going on. I didn't see it.

And I was well aware of your own intentions. You wanted me detained. You wanted to offer a counter-bounty on my own head.

My actions were justified, and I showed I wasn't fucking around when I said I would shoot-on-sight if I felt someone was a threat.

This was an IC issue. Not an OOC issue.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

No, it's an OOC issue. You only shot at Houssam, the unarmed HoP, the instant he docked. You allowed several security officers and another traitor unmolested into the docking area itself, holding your fire.

I had ZERO chance to do ANYTHING. I was a non-combatant on a shuttle alone and you outnumbered me 2v1.

He wasn't coming to detain Jauntla. He was coming to see if he could bribe Jauntla.

But that's all outside the complaint.

You immediately opened fire the split second you saw someone regardless of their intentions or armament. You then allowed several armed security officers to come inside, only firing on them after everyone had time to make intentions clear.

I didn't even have time to ask you to stop shooting and repeat the code phrase before your laser carbine melted my face and killed me.

7 seconds. I died in 7 seconds for entering your line of sight. I then asked you in LOOC why you did it to see if your explanation could get to understand why, and not have to make a complaint.

You yourself said "Go make a complaint then", which was really passive aggressive, but you can't say the complaint is dumb after telling me to make it.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Marlon Phoenix

[Blue]

You couldn't have toggled your firing setting to capture, and hold the reticule over Jackboot for a second or two? Not even a "Yeah, nice try. See you in hell" Pew pew? It had to be the very exact instance you saw him?

[Wer6]

I am Luna, and I was trying to emote, maybe the entire thing, but Juantla kept firing on Houssam, and I tried to interrupt it, failed of course. Maybe an aim would have been better, just so I can try and save Houssam.

Could have gone waaay better.

~Wer6

[Guest]

No, it's an OOC issue. You only shot at Houssam, the unarmed HoP, the instant he docked. You allowed several security officers and another traitor unmolested into the docking area itself, holding your fire.

I had ZERO chance to do ANYTHING. I was a non-combatant on a shuttle alone and you outnumbered me 2v1.

He wasn't coming to detain Jauntla. He was coming to see if he could bribe Jauntla.

But that's all outside the complaint.

You immediately opened fire the split second you saw someone regardless of their intentions or armament. You then allowed several armed security officers to come inside, only firing on them after everyone had time to make intentions clear.

I didn't even have time to ask you to stop shooting before your laser carbine melted my face and killed me.

7 seconds. I died in 7 seconds for entering your line of sight. I then asked you in LOOC why you did it to see if your explanation could get to understand why, and not have to make a complaint.

You yourself said "Go make a complaint then", which was really passive aggressive, but you can't say the complaint is dumb after telling me to make it.

 

The situation was developing. You getting shot created more conflict for the round and allowed for additional traitors to take up arms and cause a little chaos.

As soon as you threatened Jauntla with a counter bounty just to be the station badass, she decided she wasn't gonna have any of that shit. Why the fuck would I even bother reasoning with someone who already said something that was very hero-esque, bold and arrogant? Houssam got shot for being an asshole. Had you not said that, had you outlined earlier that perhaps you were coming to the outpost to negotiate over common comms or through your snitch, perhaps that would've gained my favor and my lenience.

But you did not. You pissed off a killer, a criminal that plays by their own rules and you got a response for it. As for the warden and the borg? I didn't shoot them because I was in a bad position and I recognized the cyborg moved to the front as a tank to absorb lasers. So I waited for their positioning to break and exploited the weakness, leading in the killing of the warden and the temporary deactivation of the cyborg. The grenade itself, however, its impact was unprecedented and was miscalculated. Doesn't matter, though.

The reason why I didn't want to chat in LOOC about it is because it's IC in OOC. I do not talk about what occurred, especially ongoing situations, in any form of OOC. I told you to make a player complaint because this is the kind of thing you take to the forums.

You got cloned and revived. You weren't taken out of the round for very long. I killed you to provide for CONFLICT. To make people realize "holy shit this person is baaaad, we need to do something against this baaaaad person."

You got freaking mad because the situation didn't go the way you wanted. Understandable. You get why this is wrong, though?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Houssam said the counter-bounty once, a minute after Jauntla announced her own, then dropped it and never brought it up again because it wasn't serious and a way to highlight how idiotic announcing bounties over common radio is. It was arrogant yes, but it was hardly the constant hero-mc-hero attitude that you're accusing me of.

The situation would have been fine in getting me killed if I had even a second to attempt to do anything other than dock and suddenly die.

[Guest]

>Once again, state hostile intentions to the crew that you will likely kill them if you get looked at wrong.

>People get upset that you ganked, apparently, because ganking extends to shoot-on-sight policies now, and shoot-on-sight is not ok because we say so.

This kind of logic is kind of what makes this complaint silly in my eyes. Not dumb, just silly.

[Blue]

Except, you didn't *have* to shoot him on sight. If you had manipulated him into thinking he could get to the outpost safely, then you could have at least said something to make his death enjoyable. Not even a "Haha, I tricked you". Shooting people on sight like that is not fun. You're better than that, Delta. I know you could've done something other than wordless killing.

[Jamini]

Uh, Blue, no offense. I don't think Jauntla was manipulating Houssam onto the outpost at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. It was Jackboot who thought that the code words would protect him as if he was a traitor.

To be fair, traitors do not need to work together. Even if Jauntla had heard the words (which she didn't, according to delta) she is by no means required to spare Houssam. The warning about going near her was quite clear. I really don't see how this was a gank by any means.

That said. If Houss was alone taking him hostage with reaction-fire probably would have been wiser.

[Guest]

What's done is done. I'm not discussing this further. I have addressed the points honestly and Jackboot is still dissatisfied. Nothing I can do about that.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

We've had several controversies over these situations with you yourself getting angry at people wordlessly and immediately murdering someone who posed no immediate threat. It showed no shred of good sportsmanship. I was unarmed and was still buckled to the chair.

If the roles were reversed and I was a security officer, we'd have another thread in general about it because 1138 has a history of loudly rallying against the behaviour he's shown in this incidence, which he followed by the letter. Simply existing doesn't justify murder. You murdered someone immediately and with zero attempt to roleplay. I was, again, not armed. If an unarmed non-combatant with nothing more than a suit to protect himself from laser fire deserves immediate, wordless execution, then you drop all rights to complain about robust ops murdering crew for literally no reason other than appearing in front of them.

[Guest]

If the roles were reversed and I was a security officer

 

Stopped here. Gambler's fallacy. Not going to have you attack me any further with assumptions that this situation would not have been any different if the tables were turned.

Unless a member of staff requires me to answer to anything related to this complaint, I will not be posting on this topic any further.

[Frances]

I agree with Jamini. There are several other ways 1138 could have handled the situation, but what he did (giving out a clear threat, then following on that threat, with reason), was not rule-breaking, as far as I can see.

[Susan]

Yet was that threat justified.

If I were to say "Any criminals surrender or I'll blow your face off" and then laser an assistant for stealing the chef's hat, would that be the appropriate amount of force required in that situation?

1138 chose to use an unnecessary amount of force on an unarmed target who posed no threat and took a player out of the round 4noraisins, and is now attempting to hide behind 'but it made things interesting rite guys' to justify it. There was no reason to use that amount of force.

Whether or not he made a threat is irrelevant. I could threaten any number of rule-breaking things, as in the example above, and should I get away with it because I warned the guy? Is lasering an assistant for stealing an item the appropriate response, since I warned him I'd destroy him if he didn't surrender?

[Frances]

Let's look at the specific situation for that. 1138 wasn't out to find somebody to kill - he isolated himself at the research outpost, and announced he'd shoot anyone who would try to reach him.

Is this a ridiculous threat to make? Keep in mind reaction fire in this case can be somewhat compared to holding a group of unarmed civilians hostage in a room, on the floor, and shooting one the moment they begin to move. You don't really have the time to judge whether the person acting has hostile intentions or not, but if they do (such as said civilian being a trained NRA member intent on pulling a gun), you'd be outright fucked unless you react right away.

[Jamini]

If I were to say "Any criminals surrender or I'll blow your face off" and then laser an assistant for stealing the chef's hat, would that be the appropriate amount of force required in that situation?

 

This is not a good comparison.

A better comparison would be as such:

 

The station has two captured changlings, both of whom have been outrageously violent.

Ana states: "If she sees either one of penis demons outside of containment, she is shooting them."

Ana sees one of the two changling outside of xenobiology, uncuffed and unjacketed.

Ana shoots said changling until it dies. Possibly blowing off its head.

 

And I would argue that, yes. Ana would be within her right to wordlessly blow off that changeling's head. She has adequate reason AND gave ample warning of the consequences of a certain action. (In this case, if the changlings escaped containment.)

Jauntla gave clear, ample warning that anyone trying to approach her would be shot. Simply being an antagonist gave her enough justification for violence, and by directly ignoring that warning, Houssam opened himself up to getting shot and killed.

We all need to accept sometimes that we lose, and that we will die. While as players we may not particularly LIKE when a favorite character of ours dies, especially if a death feels unfair, one has to accept that it will happen sometimes. In this case Houssam openly ignored a warning by an antagonist and paid the price for it, which was a fast and wordless execution. This is no different than say, a captain dismissing a nuke team threatening to bomb the station and then following through with it when they are ignored. This is no different than security mowing down a regbreaker who refuses to come in quietly. This is no different than a medic forcibly sedating a person who is acting insane.

[Guest]

 

Decided to break my little rule I applied on myself since apparently the OP can't just let OOC issues stay OOC, and have to hold grudges now.

The passive aggressiveness is completely unwarranted and it's not something I expected.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

 

Decided to break my little rule I applied on myself since apparently the OP can't just let OOC issues stay OOC, and have to hold grudges now.

The passive aggressiveness is completely unwarranted and it's not something I expected.

 

1) This situation is unrelated.

2) I wasn't even involved in this situation.

3) We've been sarcastic about such events since the start of the server. It's not suddenly a grudge because I had a problem with an action you took rounds ago. My universe doesn't revolve around you.

EDIT:

I just learned you play Vira de Santos! I can see how this would look bad. Apologies for the misinterpreted sense of passive aggression, but it wasn't there.

[ZipZero]

What were the exact words of the threat? Was it something like "I will kill anyone who tries to stop me", or was it more like "I will kill anyone I see"? I think that's an important distinction. If it was the former, then this is a problem, as Houssam clearly was not posing any sort of threat at that time.

[Guest]

It was more "I will kill anyone I perceive as a threat."

[mirkoloio]

Salutations, Friends.

I think 1138 acted completely legit and was full within his rights to vaporize Houssam. I'd have done the same.

[Chaznoodles]

The warning was quite clear, and the result justified due to that. I don't see the need for a complaint on this.

[Nik]

Mmmm....this is a peculiarily similar issue that I had at one point (except Raieed escaped the laser barrage by some random antag) and I suppose I can see the reasoning for both sides.

On one, you took a risk Jackboot, nothing is set in stone. On another, it was a jerk reaction. But mights and rights and if's are all pointless to make.

In the end, we shouldn't use the argument "don't kill me so quickly cause no RP" because that's a meta reason. Things occurred. we are using a game which is attempting to simulate real life in a sprite based tile game. You either take an action or speak, you can't do both.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

It was more "I will kill anyone I perceive as a threat."

 

But I wasn't a threat. I was zero threat, nada. But fine.

If this behaviour is justified, I will make note of this and reserve the right to do this from now on when antagonist. I thought these weeks of controversy over antags murdering people with zero roleplay or provocation had an actual meat behind them and we wanted to collectively prevent this kind of behaviour, but if we only complain in dsay about it but no one cares outside said dsay, I'm going to adjust my playstyle when antagonist accordingly.

I'll accept this behaviour and adopt it into my own playstyle if it's allowed for antagonists; I made the mistake of how I interpreted gank in terms of Aurora's definition.

It'll be fun to be more loosey goosey with guns, if anything else.