[Resolved] Staff Complaint - Melariara

[Evandorf]

BYOND Key: Evandorf
Staff BYOND Key: Melariara
Game ID: cjM-dpz3
Reason for complaint: This is just to appeal a staff decision made during a round of Heist. We had already gone loud and security had geared up. Two of us remained and we were trying to get back to our ship when we came across Theo Joutsen, Zavod Engineer. He quickly tried to back away into the elevator but we caught up and told him to toss us his ID. He knew who we were and complied. We scanned it tossed it back to him and started moving away to the hangars to get out the way we came in. As we were almost offscreen he pulled a .45 combat pistol with live rounds and started unloading into us from behind. We began to give chase but the other heister was hit pretty good and we were just trying to get out so we let him run. Eventually because the injured heister was slow security caught up to us and took us down.

After the dust settled I ahelped because I thought it odd that the engineer had the gun in the first place (sec was fully loaded and had not had many casualties) but also I had misgivings about Theo's ability to use a gun, proper fear RP, and sorta being a dick when we were trying not to fuck over what we thought was a normal engineer.

Melariara picked up the ahelp and after a while came back to say that he had a reason for having the gun. I took her word for them having a reason to have it but asked if they would reasonably be able to use it in this situation. Melariara stated that because they had witnessed the carnage of a hostage exchange and the scene of a shootout that they were cleared for how they acted. I was going to follow up and ask how we are supposed to show restraint to what appear to be normal, non-threatening crew members when this sort of thing is allowed but the ticket had been closed after the response to my previous question. Rather than ahelp again and argue in the round I decided to wait and make this complaint.

Primarily I'm not super concerned with how the engineer was able to get ahold of the gun. He could have picked it up off the floor from a downed officer. My main concern is mostly fear RP and OOC behavior of what I see as valid hunting from an engineer.

Evidence/logs/etc: I will attach the chat logs to this if they are needed.

Additional remarks: I wanted also to say that I have no issues with Melariara or how they behave as staff but I wanted to get a second opinion on the resolution to this issue.

SS13_Chat_Log_2022-09-06_191714.html

Edited October 15, 2022 by ReadThisNamePlz

[MattAtlas]

16 minutes ago, Evandorf said:

After the dust settled I ahelped because I thought it odd that the engineer had the gun in the first place (sec was fully loaded and had not had many casualties) but also I had misgivings about Theo's ability to use a gun, proper fear RP, and sorta being a dick when we were trying not to fuck over what we thought was a normal engineer.

I played the engineer in question and I would say that I did follow fear RP by virtue of not instantly unloading on you on the elevator when you cornered me. That would have been complete shit, and I agree there, but I intentionally waited for you two to be nearly offscreen + I made sure that you gave me back my ID so I could run into maintenance, and thus I had the ability to run away.

You didn't really need to fuck me over to not get shot, honestly. If you had taken my ID for example I would never have attempted this since I wouldn't have had an easy way out. Also, you were just 2 heisters, and if you were grouped up in a full stack I would also never have done this. Not even just that - one of you didn't have a gun at all, the other only had a sword. If you two had guns I also probably wouldn't have done this since I would've eaten shit in the maintenance tunnel.

[Evandorf]

I guess I just wonder why the attack had to be made at all. It wasn't self-defense and unless there was a reason Theo felt the need to engage with an already established violent group of individuals it just seems like validhunting.

[MattAtlas]

7 hours ago, Evandorf said:

I guess I just wonder why the attack had to be made at all. It wasn't self-defense and unless there was a reason Theo felt the need to engage with an already established violent group of individuals it just seems like validhunting.

You guys tried murdering the CMO, or at the very least tortured him. Shooting a murderer in the back isn't really what I would call unreasonable, especially if there's very little risk attached to it.

[Evandorf]

Maybe my understanding of valid hunting is wrong then. I understand it as unrealistically going out of your way to try to kill or overcome an antagonist despite fear RP, character motivation, common sense, character ability (power gaming outside of their skill set), character knowledge (using meta knowledge), ect or a mix of reasons and loud antags don’t remove the necessity for those requirements. From what you said it sounds like the main concern from your point of view was whether or not you could get away quickly after taking the shots and not if it was within reason for Theo to risk death to do so. I have to assume that, given your reasons, even if we had not stopped you and simply kept moving you would have still likely shot us.

From an OOC perspective, if what happened is within the rules and an engineer can’t be trusted not to pull an automatic pistol on us when we turn our backs then it makes us have to be wary of every crew member we come across and take steps to make sure we’re not going to be ambushed which likely means being hostile or aggressive or going down the murderbone path. I try to restrain myself from going on a killing spree, especially against non sec crew, but I see validhunting as a lack of same restraint only from the perspective of the crew.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Evandorf

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Hi, I’ll be handling this. I did not realize this has been sitting so long. Expect a reply today.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Alright, I've looked at the logs, and the explanation from Matt. 

Honestly, I think this is fine. If this had happened before the hostage/mess of an exchange, I'd see it entirely differently, but taking some shots at two armed and dangerous people with the hopes of causing them harm or to prevent them from getting away... After they had tried to kill the CMO, I can see the justification. He did not hunt you down afterwards, from what I can tell. If he did, then I'd have an issue with it, but it sounds like he just shot you then ran away. Cheesy and annoying, but not in violation of the rules. 

Does this give you some closure, @Evandorf?

[Evandorf]

Completely. Looking back on it I think I was a little miffed that my character in particular hadn’t been violent at all but in hindsight I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect Matt to have that context especially when he is getting second hand info on the intruders in general. 

[ReadThisNamePlz]

9 hours ago, Evandorf said:

Completely. Looking back on it I think I was a little miffed that my character in particular hadn’t been violent at all but in hindsight I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect Matt to have that context especially when he is getting second hand info on the intruders in general. 

Awesome. I'll lock this and archive it.