Player/Character Complaint || Fluffyghost/Ben Donitz

[LordPwner]

BYOND Key: LordPwner
Game ID: cki-bfMk
Player Byond Key/Character name: Fluffyghost ||  'Ben Donitz'
Staff involved: I ahelped with Yonni and two mods on, got no response on the first round (Like two rounds before posted), ahelped about writing up the complaint, thought I'd need their Ckey.
Reason for complaint: 

It is a LIST. So- At first they diverged from Lore STUPIDLY HARD as in- never read it or did not care if they did read it. Claiming things like: 

• Ben Donitz invented cryogenics
• They were a practicing Doctor (While being an Intern)
• They knew nothing of 'modern 2464' times
• No idea about our present setting
• That there were human+Orango breeding programs (Two rounds before this one- after the event hosted by Read on 10/7/2022 or the round right after that. 
• That they had killed 100's of people to invent cryogenics.
• As a Doctor- they don't ANY of the basic chemicals, even after having multiple characters explain to them, their (being the chemicals) uses and where to get them.

Now I had LOOC'd them and was like- 'Hey, it seems like you don't know our setting here's the new player lore to catch you up' considering during event round, they had just come on and wanted to be trained surgery in the last ten minutes.

Which is fine, ya know, learn intern, learn! I figured they knew somewhat what was happening since they did surgical sites fine- they threw out odd terms, clearly nothing that was used or said on ship ECMO for adrenaline- tarcor for something? Just odd little things- Which at first I though, Oh- this is like a med student with an undiagnosed disorder- This is actually interesting- (Lets ignore the fact that they claimed to be 'already studied psych, just need surgical training'. But then they started with the comments you see above- Now he did all this while an intern role- which is alright? I guess? Interns aren't meant to know things, but I laid it on thick ICly that they were an intern and therefore lacking knowledge- After that, they then moved to 'Physician' while learning nothing. It tells me they didn't like being referred to as 'intern' but in an OOCly sense. So they moved into a position they are not ready for. Just in the Game ID posted they killed two simple monkey jobs by missing the most basic of stuff, and had to be told REPEATEDLY to fix a wound, to get med out of a Nanomed. Now later into said Game-ID on top of being a Psychologist, Practicing Doctor, and scientist- They're also a soldier. That fought for the Solarians around 2260-2270? Born 2249 for sure- asked 'em to repeat that a few times. 

Now maybe this isn't so bad, maybe this is just the greatest character of all time and I just don't see it. But that thought they planted in my head, that this is some, super wild amazing, yet annoying character in the works crashed and burned when I opened their medical records.

Yes I marked them as 'Insane', Ben as a character needs meds. But- this tells me- they want the invented cryostasis as canon- which argues all the other wild and insane stuff they talk about, ask about is also a 'canon' for them. Which is arguably more Mary Sue than Uriel Evans' first thirty rounds as Captain. Scary times I know, but all in the past. Records are from the companies standpoint and not our characters, you don't generate your records when you get hired, they do a back ground check on you. It really just seems like this character is a 'I'm everything and super cool, and forget your lore because I'm too old and badass for that' which just shatters immersion- It's not believable that the SCC would hire someone who clearly can't pass basic training for their job, can't pass a psych evaluation, and most important has prewritten job hindering disorders in their records. 

Operating on someone- or just reading a scan- well you hurt them. Not sure what they'll see or do. As an example Nursie/WitchBells' Mari has a few noted issues/syndromes, but they aren't things that would ICly heavily impact them- things I thought were pretty neat and good at setting their character apart while being reasonable. 

I tried, I really tried to sit down and understand Ben, to see if it was just me, but no- It's just too much- Everything they sent kept pulling me out of immersion and kinda killed rounds because it just DOES NOT fit with anything. Have a minor-mid delusion? Like- 'I'm the best Doctor ever' as an Intern- where you try to take over patient while having no idea what to do? Would be funny for a few rounds honestly. But it's at the level where it just stops roleplay with me. The Doctor, Scientist, Psychologist, Soldier needs to be looked at and redone in my opinion.

Zane is aggressive throughout these rounds, but hey- it's frustrating having a player that doesn't know what's going on, and trying to be helpful just flat out ignore and blow it off. And just stomp all over the scene, killing it for you. 

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? I tried to ahelp the issue- first was ignored/miss, as this progressed, felt the need to just make a complaint.
Approximate Date/Time: 10/8/2022 2:12 AM Pacific Standard Time

 

Chat long 053600 provided by Hailey Wise / Kelnor as they didn't crash mid round RIP RIP RIP

SS13_Chat_Log_2022-10-08_033450.html SS13_Chat_Log_2022-10-08_053600.html

Edited October 8, 2022 by LordPwner
Just adding their Ckey and clarifying one of the bullet points

[Kelnor]

Biggest IC issue I had with it is when he hallucinated a patient, treated them, then released them.

No way someone that has uncontrollable breaks from reality would be allowed to join medical.

Also it's Reality Disassociation Disorder, and if untreated or untreatable it will disqualify you from just about any job that carries any stakes or operating any dangerous equipment or life critical equipment.

Which is basically the entire ship.

And no he didn't invent cryo, you could have a delusion about it maybe, but your corporation would not include it in your record.

You're not ready for physician if you don't know what the basic drugs are, how they are used and where they are stored. Stay on intern for now.

I'm pretty sure you went from intern to physician most likely because we wouldn't let you perform a head shrapnel removal on a previous round based on you being an intern. This is why we did that though. Patient death was likely when you don't know about or have a hypo or any inaprov or even a medhud.

OOC issues, figure out how to enable LOOC, otherwise your lore errors won't be correctible.

Your character would never be hired, that has to be fixed before we can start working basic lore and medical training.

 

Basically, the only way Hailey could justify your character's existence was that you somehow snuck on, falsified your records and were vibing in some place you wouldn't be allowed to be.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Kelnor

[Fluffy]

I'm sorry, I had to reply because it seems like you misunderstood the point, the point is that the character is, as the medical record states, delusional and with mosaic memory, the idea was that the character (to be used while learning) was the inventor (in the team of) the cryostasis (suspended consciousness with the help of the cold), due to the experimentations with cryostasis - also self inflicted - the mosaic memory was caused (but you couldn't know that because... you never asked)

 

Maybe defining them would help explain:

- Mosaic memory means pieces of memory that are loosely and unrefinedly connected to create a bigger picture - the past
- Delusion is a persistent belief or set of beliefs held against all evidence

 

The point of the character is that, after what he saw and did, he entered cryostasis himself and was awakened recently, then sent to the ship/station to learn the job and try to resume his normal life and, perhaps, contribute to new medical discoveries

 

In regards to specific points, if you are interested to know the character...

 

>Ben Donitz invented cryogenics

He invented it in the sense that it contributed to the invention, in a team

>They were a practicing Doctor (While being an Intern)

He was a practicing doctor, before being freezed up, and was there as an intern to learn the "new ways" of the modern technology (mainly because I know other systems of other stations but not this one, so I thought the difference was less than this much substantial)

>They knew nothing of 'modern 2464' times

Not exactly nothing, but not very much

>That there were human+Orango breeding programs (Two rounds before this one- after the event hosted by Read on 10/7/2022 or the round right after that. 

I assumed it was upwards of 300 years prior, not "two rounds prior", maybe this is my fault, sorry if that's the case

>That they had killed 100's of people to invent cryogenics.

The research required sacrifices with many lost lifes, that's correct

>As a Doctor- they don't ANY of the basic chemicals, even after having multiple characters explain to them, their (being the chemicals) uses and where to get them.

As a doctor of upwards of 300 years before, the chemicals of course change overtime, I'd like you to read medicine names from the 1700s and tell me what each does (though as i said i thought it would have been not so much different) - also I'd like to say that after a single round in which I didn't got the chance to even use them it would be surprising I'd remember the med names and what they do... maybe my memory is not as good as yours tho

 

>they threw out odd terms, clearly nothing that was used or said on ship

Yes... 300 years old terms... as expected from the character

>ECMO for adrenaline

Two different things, ECMO is to oxygenate the blood (what the IV drip in surgery do), adrenaline is a medication (inaprovaline would be the most similar here... and yes i had to look it up again)

>tarcor for something

trocar, it's used for embalming

>already studied psych, just need surgical training

Psychiatry, a subtle hint to look at my medical records for the odd things

>they then moved to 'Physician' while learning nothing

On the contrary, I moved to physician to learn, since I learn by doing, and in the previous emergency on the previous shift all I did was doing compressions basically

 

>Just in the Game ID posted they killed two simple monkey jobs by missing the most basic of stuff, and had to be told REPEATEDLY to fix a wound, to get med out of a Nanomed.

Monkeys that in the same exact condition the other doctor killed too, but that's not even the relevant part i believe, I was trying to find a logical connection of how to see what had to be done and create a mental, logical map of the steps, while I had a near-death monkey in front of me and you - which I appreciate for the help, and I mean it - jumping different topics faster than a machinegun shoots bullets, while i was trying to find a logical sense of what i was seeing and how the info connected with each other, while trying to remain in character

 

>Now later into said Game-ID on top of being a Psychologist, Practicing Doctor, and scientist- They're also a soldier.

No, wrong on multiple points: first of all not a psychologist by any means, the hint was that the character studied psychiatry (which is a field of medicine practiced by a doctor) and was there for the training, second it was a practicing doctor yes, but as mentioned before, 300 or so years ago, third it was not a scientist in any way shape or form, just a doctor in a team that worked on an invention, fifth it was not a soldier, it worked as a doctor in a military ship

>That fought for the Solarians around 2260-2270? 

Never fought as explained above, and never gave a date for that battle either

 

> But- this tells me- they want the invented cryostasis as canon- which argues all the other wild and insane stuff they talk about, ask about is also a 'canon' for them.

No, not at all, as explained above

 

> It really just seems like this character is a 'I'm everything and super cool, and forget your lore because I'm too old and badass for that' which just shatters immersion- It's not believable that the SCC would hire someone who clearly can't pass basic training for their job, can't pass a psych evaluation, and most important has prewritten job hindering disorders in their records. 

I'd reiterate again: it is intended to be a character to learn with, it is not badass by any means whatsoever as I think it should have been obvious by its inability to do most things, neurological and psychiatric issues, it's likely the most disadvantaged character on the station, it does not touch the lore too deeply because it was not there for most of it, SSC on the basis of his contribution in the past on a scientific breakthrough has sent it to learn the new ways with the hope of reusing him in other teams to invent new things (this is the reason he will disappear after having learnt the station)

[Kelnor]

Difference in the monkeys, was A: I knew what I did wrong, I was slow on delivering blood.

B: I injected inaprov and coaguzol you injected nothing.

I stated this after the monkey died, my mistakes, and on the next monkey test you attempted, you injected one drug using a syringe and Zane had to insert the blood for you because you didn't.

I did a similar thing with Hailey by the way. Started as Intern for 2 weeks on an accelerated residency due to 7 years of cryo despite having all the education. I didn't come in as physie until I had all the main drugs under (and in) my belt and a strong understanding of how the in game bodies organs worked to keep the brain alive.

This could have been done with you as an intern by the way. And interns are trusted with admining initial drugs during triage AFTER they've been trained on them. You were only prevented from helping in that one case because it was a shrapnel removal surgery on the head while you had no gear or basic knowledge. You will do fine on Intern and learn to walk before trying to run like you did on that round.

Regardless, you can not be delusional or have significant breaks from reality like you did. That part has to at least be managed so it won't happen. You wouldn't let someone operate on you or treat you if they might suddenly have a significant break with reality during the treatment.

Also you put that you invented cryo in your flavor text now, that's meant for things people can see about your character, not a huge deal but yeah.

[Fluffy]

And that's the learning i'm hoping to absorb, through mistakes, possibly on monkeys

 

>You were only prevented from helping in that one case because it was a shrapnel removal surgery on the head while you had no gear or basic knowledge.

I did, I believe, because I practiced with the doctor (was it you?) on organs manipulation and when you use the hemostat to take out the organ there's the option "remove foreign body", which I guessed would have removed the sharpnel, but maybe I'm wrong, though at the moment it seemed straightforward enough to attempt it with the EMS present and the surgeon in the next room in case of emergency

 

>Regardless, you can not be delusional or have significant breaks from reality like you did. That part has to at least be managed so it won't happen. You wouldn't let someone operate on you or treat you if they might suddenly have a significant break with reality during the treatment.

That... is not what this character does? He breaks from reality, but if you noticed, only when he's bored (aka: there's nothing to do), the beliefs of the delusion are anchored in the past (to learn the lore) or in otherwise non-relevant fields with what he does

[Kelnor]

First point: Still should be an intern. If you're relying on a surgeon who is in the middle of life saving surgery, and an EMT to save you during a surgery, you shouldn't be a Physician.

Second point: I did notice, but you can't control RAD, and noone will trust you the moment you have one in their view. You will be relieved of duty if a command or psych witnesses it fair warning.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Kelnor

[Fluffy]

You're right for the first point, I'll continue to try as an intern

For the second one... I think it has a point, it makes dead time funny, and does not interfere with work time, also you don't control it either, when he's bored he moves towards hallucinations, when he's not it does not happen, we'd call boredom a stressor that triggers it, if you want

[Sputnik5927]

I play Daniel Griffin, a Surgeon that met Ben Donitz today and called Security, believing that Ben Donitz had forged his I-D and should not be allowed near patients.

I have to tell you, Fluffy, that there is just no way you can continue with this character. It's way too crazy of a concept, breaks the lore and doesn't offer interesting possibilities. You cannot take a physician job slot and basically use that as a medical intern. I tried to tell you LOOC to wait for staff to help you, because I had ahelped the issues with your character, but apparently you have LOOC disabled. No staff were available at the time, unfortunately. 

We all tried to help you, but you're basically jumping the fence into medical without establishing a basic understanding of the server or job. Play an intern, ask for lessons and we will teach you. Also at least take a peek into the server lore. Because unfortunately, your character just can't be taken seriously as a real Doctor and crewmate.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Hi, I will be handling this complaint. Please do not post if you were not directly involved. 
 

@Fluffy Have you read the rules? 

[Fluffy]

Hi,

yes, i read them, though not expert read as it was the roundstart

[ReadThisNamePlz]

42 minutes ago, Fluffy said:

Hi,

yes, i read them, though not expert read as it was the roundstart

Alright. 
 

you need to read the full rules. Your character as of right now is in violation of several. Read the lore, and read the rules. I appreciate your attempt at being creative, but you need to build a basic foundation of our lore and rules before you can do something like this. 

[Fluffy]

Thank you, I have read them and the background as suggested (https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Background_summary) and made the following modifications:

 

-> now Ben contributed to the development of a generic secret project during the interstellar war instead

-> stasis imperfections, despite the best efforts, caused minor brain damages in the form of ischemia that caused the memory and delusion issues

-> they only happen when he's bored (aka, not when he's working)

-> he is now from the coalition of colonies, xanu; he was born on it in 2249 during the supervised era

-> studied as a military doctor and was eventually brought in to work to the beforementioned project

-> working on it along with the team, due to issues and fundamental flaw with the project theory, he got trapped in an intermediate prototype; while working on it, the system activated and stasized (?) him

-> despite the presence and the help of the rest of the team, it quickly became clear it was impossible back then to wake him up without killing him with the current technology

-> he was therefore kept frozen until the recent years when it was possible to attempt to wake him up, something that the zeng-hu pharmaceutical offered to attempt

-> they managed to more or less not kill him, though that made some damage that they were not able to revert (see above)

-> he was, at last, sent aboard the Horizon to be updated and trained on the new equipments, with the purpose of recalling him back once done and put him back to work on other projects that would - or so they hope - give an economic advantage and growth that would far surpass any competition

 

Would you consider this acceptable enough?

[Kelnor]

The only minor feedback I would give would be on how delusions work. Previously Ben continued to insist the woman existed after being told. Showing that Ben has some level of control of the delusions, IE. when confronted, he realizes it's happened again and ignores it. Or him realizing it's a delusion dispels it would help a lot.

A good chunk of the medbay I know would help a colleague hide minor delusional breaks, at least as far as medical privacy laws allow, so long as it's feasible it wouldn't threaten a patient.

Hallucinating an entire patient interaction was too much but sometimes mistaking the doors closing as hearing gunshots for example (pick your own delusions obviously, since you know the character best) would be something we could hide/ wave off.

If you want, you can have the delusions go full blast during extreme situations like being held hostage or extreme unconditioned (out of the character's normal experience) stress. I personally like to tie these kinds of stressors to stress the character isn't accustomed to. or if it's related to a past trauma IE. A stressful surgery or triage is no big deal, but say a social gathering or a bomb threat or something outside whatever their wheelhouse is could trigger it.

The key point is showing us your character can address these delusions when confronted.

Other than that seems good.

Edit: I don't know the lore outside my own characters' history, so I can't speak that well to how your lore backstory fits.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Kelnor

[ReadThisNamePlz]

On 08/10/2022 at 20:53, Fluffy said:

Thank you, I have read them and the background as suggested (https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Background_summary) and made the following modifications:

 

-> now Ben contributed to the development of a generic secret project during the interstellar war instead

-> stasis imperfections, despite the best efforts, caused minor brain damages in the form of ischemia that caused the memory and delusion issues

-> they only happen when he's bored (aka, not when he's working)

-> he is now from the coalition of colonies, xanu; he was born on it in 2249 during the supervised era

-> studied as a military doctor and was eventually brought in to work to the beforementioned project

-> working on it along with the team, due to issues and fundamental flaw with the project theory, he got trapped in an intermediate prototype; while working on it, the system activated and stasized (?) him

-> despite the presence and the help of the rest of the team, it quickly became clear it was impossible back then to wake him up without killing him with the current technology

-> he was therefore kept frozen until the recent years when it was possible to attempt to wake him up, something that the zeng-hu pharmaceutical offered to attempt

-> they managed to more or less not kill him, though that made some damage that they were not able to revert (see above)

-> he was, at last, sent aboard the Horizon to be updated and trained on the new equipments, with the purpose of recalling him back once done and put him back to work on other projects that would - or so they hope - give an economic advantage and growth that would far surpass any competition

 

Would you consider this acceptable enough?

I do not, unfortunately. 

This is still extremely lore breaking. The stasis imperfections? Not possible because he wouldn't have been frozen for long enough for such a thing to happen. Coalition of colonies is fine but he cannot be from 2249. Military doctor? Sure, Solarian military or maybe some CoC doctor, but that project does not exist and is too lore-breaking/melding to be considered allowable. Essentially everything after him being from the Coalition of Colonies and an ex-Officer (doctors would be Officers in most militaries) is still too.. "Main Character" - esque, and breaks immersion. 

I recommend the following. 

Ben Donitz - Solarian, 40+, Surgeon that holds a degree in some sort of specified field. Neurosurgery or Cardiothoracic for example. Maybe he defected after the initial attempt on Biesels independence, and actually immigrated after Frost was repelled like siiiix years ago? And has been working for Zheng-hu ever since. 

Ultimately, you can have a unique background- but it has to conform to our lore. You can have some "quirks" that are solely RP based, but they all have to conform to the lore we have on the server. Without this standard, we'd have 6'8 two year old vat grown Amazonian women with the brain power of the oldest Skrell imaginable. 

Make a character that has room to grow, on the Horizon. Give yourself a foundation, but do not over saturate them or their personality, so you may make an actual footprint on the servers community and current lore when the time comes.
Does this make sense? 

[ReadThisNamePlz]

Need you to reply here, @Fluffy

[Fluffy]

Sure, I have adjusted Ben as we discussed, I think he's acceptable now if you want to check (?)