Complaint : K0NFL1QT as NTAI-X, AI

[Frances]

BYOND Key: FFrances

Player Byond Key: K0NFL1QT

Reason for complaint: Possibly bad judgement call in following laws as an AI

Approximate Date/Time: 16-APR-2015, approx. 1:30AM EST.

I'm going to preface this by saying that this is a very minor complaint on my part, and I'm not looking to get K0NFL1QT punished, simply establish dialogue regarding a nuke round that just happened. I'm not even sure myself if K0NFL1QT was at fault in what he did, but I feel a bit iffy about the entire situation. So yes, I'm making a player complaint because this is the forum to discuss these issues, but don't let that intimidate anyone, it's not the "raaar i'm mad" kind of complaint.

Anyway.

What happened: During a nuke round, with no command staff on, the syndies had essentially managed to hold the station hostage by planting a series of bombs, and were communicating with the crew in a relatively disorganized way. In the middle of them making their demands (roughly 1h into the round) K0NFL1QT's AI, NTAI-X decided to call the emergency shuttle, as they had discovered a nuclear device had been planted somewhere within the brig. After a few people asking the AI on comms to recall the shuttle, the operatives detonated the nuke as retaliation for calling the shuttle, ending the round.

Why I'm not okay with it: I don't understand the reasoning of calling the shuttle at that point in the round - it is generally poor form to call the emergency shuttle in the middle of a threat, OOCly because it cuts the round short, and ICly because "evacuating under code red is dangerous" (which is a fairly valid excuse, you want to let the round play out and ensure the threat has been mostly neutralized before sending a shuttle and evacuating everyone). Even ICly, the call was hard for me to justify, because the station had already bombed at that point, and was being held hostage by mercs - if that situation is not worthy of a shuttle call, I do not know how the addition of a nuke into the mix changes things.

What bothers me is that it seemed obvious that the syndies were in control of the situation, and were perfectly able to detonate the nuclear device if the station crew showed any intent of resisting, for example by calling the shuttle. Furthermore, several members of the crew clearly stated they were under the impression syndies would detonate the nuke were the shuttle not recalled. Calling the shuttle at that point (and refusing to recall it, though the AI might've simple not have had the time to) seems like it would endanger the station far more than it would help it.

In the end, it cut the round short, which kinda sucked, and while I'm not upset at all at the syndies for following up on their threat, I sort of end up finding myself wishing the shuttle hadn't been called over something that seems illogical.

Anyway, hopefully K0NFL1QT can shed some light on why he made that call.

[Guest Menown]

Yeah, this seems like a weird situation. There's several ways it plays it, none of which is good for the crew.

1) Evac to outposts. Ops detonate anyway.

2) Ops ransack the station/abduct crew/whatever. Security gets in trouble/fired for not handling it. People are killed/fired.

3) Evac via shuttle, causing the bombing.

4) Call ERT. Ops get mad because ERT, set off bomb.

None of these works out for the crew, and will always go in favor for the ops. ICly, calling the shuttle and having the bombing stalled as much as possible is the best situation, in my eyes, so I don't see the issue here. I often forsake OOC for the IC plausibility, such as this type of situation.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Menown

[K0NFL1QT]

What happened: During a nuke round, with no command staff on, the syndies had essentially managed to hold the station hostage by planting a series of bombs, and were communicating with the crew in a relatively disorganized way. In the middle of them making their demands (roughly 1h into the round) K0NFL1QT's AI, NTAI-X decided to call the emergency shuttle, as they had discovered a nuclear device had been planted somewhere within the brig. After a few people asking the AI on comms to recall the shuttle, the operatives detonated the nuke as retaliation for calling the shuttle, ending the round.

Why I'm not okay with it: I don't understand the reasoning of calling the shuttle at that point in the round - it is generally poor form to call the emergency shuttle in the middle of a threat, OOCly because it cuts the round short, and ICly because "evacuating under code red is dangerous" (which is a fairly valid excuse, you want to let the round play out and ensure the threat has been mostly neutralized before sending a shuttle and evacuating everyone). Even ICly, the call was hard for me to justify, because the station had already bombed at that point, and was being held hostage by mercs - if that situation is not worthy of a shuttle call, I do not know how the addition of a nuke into the mix changes things.

What bothers me is that it seemed obvious that the syndies were in control of the situation, and were perfectly able to detonate the nuclear device if the station crew showed any intent of resisting, for example by calling the shuttle. Furthermore, several members of the crew clearly stated they were under the impression syndies would detonate the nuke were the shuttle not recalled. Calling the shuttle at that point (and refusing to recall it, though the AI might've simple not have had the time to) seems like it would endanger the station far more than it would help it.

In the end, it cut the round short, which kinda sucked, and while I'm not upset at all at the syndies for following up on their threat, I sort of end up finding myself wishing the shuttle hadn't been called over something that seems illogical.

 

A few things of note;

• There was no Command Staff alive. The Research Director had been missing presumed dead for a while, with no communication. As it turned out, they were killed by a rogue drone.
• It was not a 'Code Red' situation. Code Red was never initiated.
  
• There was residual damage from the bombing of the Captains Office, but it was largely repaired and not a danger to crew. Neither was the exploded Prison Wing, nor was that unfixable with even the small team of engineering staff.
  
• No demands were made, that I was aware of. The only real communication was about halfway through the round when Stein told the crew that he had the nuke and might choose to not detonate it if they can guess his name, from a Godswood related clue. After that was periods of silence and the crew trying to barter for their lives.
  
• The Nuke Op who set and detonated the Nuclear Device was not Stein, it was Reaper, who made no communication with the crew, no demands, and seemed to be working without Steins guidance or approval.

 

Here's how the events played out, from my perspective.

 

• I scanned around the armory and caught sight of a nuke op outside the prison window. As he jumped off into space, he left a tank transfer bomb at the window. I informed both Sec and Engineering of the explosion in the hope of it having a long timer. It was about twenty seconds. The prison wing is largely destroyed, but nothing else is really affected. I bolt the access doors to prevent any officers running into the breached room.
   
  
• I look back into the prison wing and see the nuke op setting up the nuclear device. I inform the crew, multiple times, of its presence and location. The Nuke op leaves again but I can see now that the deployed nuke is flashing, and it wasn't before, so I assumed the countdown had begun.
   
  
• This is the point where I called the shuttle, after the nuke had already been deployed and activated. As far as I was aware, the nuke ops had not issued a threat regarding the shuttle. The countdown was already active. Destruction was immediately imminent. It was naive to think the nuke had a timer that would allow the crew to evacuate first, but one of the AI laws is to protect the crew. In that situation, making an attempt to get them OFF the station is about the only thing I could do to satisfy that.

 

And yes, I received an order from one Security Officer and one Medical Doctor to recall the shuttle and knowingly ignored them, because to recall the shuttle and make NO attempt at evacuating would be a direct violation of the law to protect crew. Not that it ultimately mattered, because there wasn't time for the shuttle to even arrive.

To put it simply, the thought process was this;

 

• Activated nuke will destroy the station and all crew aboard.
• Crew protection law demands initiating whatever form of evacuation is possible.
  
• Two non-command staff order the evacuation cancelled which would ensure that the nuke destroys everything and kills everyone.

 

Attached is a transcript of the last twenty-ish minutes of the round.

 

Stein (Unknown) [145.9] asks, "Let me tell you a story. The last time I dealt with a slime, I got shot in the side...what I am interested in is what Doctor Essel is talking about, I believe she made a offer I may have missed?"

Phoebe Essel (Lab Assistant) [145.9] asks, "You're interested in me, are you?"

Cole Desmond (Shaft Miner) [science] says, "I'm going to come anyways."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [145.9] asks, "Can't you damn use them?"

Kyla Lacon (Xenobiologist) [145.9] says, "No, sir, you misunderstand."

Phoebe Essel (Lab Assistant) [science] says, "You might not want to. This Hawke woman is on edge."

Arturo Plateado (Roboticist) [science] says, "Enjoy yourself, CD."

Kyla Lacon (Xenobiologist) [145.9] says, "The slime has already been dealt with."

kyla Lacon (Xenobiologist) [145.9] says, "I'm going to give you the extracts."

Stein (Unknown) [145.9] asks, "Then what are you offering?"

Stein (Unknown) [145.9] says, "...I see...Interesting"

Kyla Lacon (Xenobiologist) [145.9] says, "I have them with me, and would be willing to trade, on one condition."

Stein (Unknown) [145.9] asks, "What would that be?"

Kyla Lacon (Xenobiologist) [145.9] says, "That you activate the extract on your vessel."

Alice Wilson (Warden) [security] asks, "Wolff, we'rrrre coming to you. What's yourrr location?"

Phoebe Essel (Lab Assistant) [science] asks, "Wait. Do we have cool extracts?"

Jo'Zah Saani (Cargo Technician) [supply] says, "She rrreally wanted those shotguns.."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [supply] says, "Any damn thing, girl."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [supply] says, "Damn call."

Phoebe Essel (Lab Assistant) [science] exclaims, "Oh my gosh, do you have gold ones? I've gotten the most glorious biopsies out of those!"

Clarke Owens (Security Officer) [security] asks, "What is the code?"

Phoebe Essel (Lab Assistant) [science] says, "I mean, it's a /little/ trouble containing them, but it's all worth it."

Alice Wilson shrugs.

NTAI-X (AI) [security] states, "Alert. Bomb. Location: Prison Wing."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [supply] says, "Maybe if I damn gather enough damn plasma, we can-"

Jo'Zah Saani (Cargo Technician) [supply] asks, "What will Aarrron do, give them a sterrn look?"

Kiera Wolff (Security Officer) [security] says, "No idea at the momment. Ill try and get to arrivals"

NTAI-X (AI) [Engineering] states, "Alert. Bomb. Location: Prison Wing."

Alice Wilson (Warden) [security] says, "The prrrison wing is empty."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [supply] says, "Well, there is some damn bastard out there, I damn think."

NTAI-X (AI) [security] states, "It's outside."

Jo'Zah Saani (Cargo Technician) [supply] asks, "At mining?"

HELIX (Cyborg) [Engineering] states, "Unit HELIX routing to Prison Wing."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [supply] says, "Damn outside."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [supply] says, "He has a damn gun."

Jo'Zah Saani (Cargo Technician) [supply] says, "Come back then."

Aquila (Atmospheric Technician) [Engineering] says, "Be careful. You may die."

Victor Kaipov (Security Officer) [security] says, "Wolff. Go to medbay."

NTAI-X (AI) [Engineering] states, "Bomb is EVA."

HELIX (Cyborg) [Engineering] states, "Unit HELIX acknowledges."

Stein (Unknown) [145.9] says, "Hmm..."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [supply] says, "Well, he is damn trying to damn speak damn something, I damn think."

NTAI-X (AI) [145.9] states, "Bomb has detonated."

Stein (Unknown) [145.9] says, "That was not me."

HELIX (Cyborg) [Engineering] states, "Unit HELIX acknowledges."

The door bolts have been dropped.

The door bolts have been dropped.

The door bolts have been dropped.

The door bolt lights have been disabled.

The door bolt lights have been enabled

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [145.9] says, "A damn question."

The door bolts have been dropped.

Phoebe Essel (Lab Assistant) [science] says, "Another thing, Lacon."

Victor Kaipov (Security Officer) [security] says, "I'll just scout ahead."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [145.9] asks, "Am I damn alone at the damn asteroid?"

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [145.9] says, "There is a damn bastard out damn here."

Phoebe Essel (Lab Assistant) [science] says, "You will not command me as if you have a right."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [145.9] says, "With damn guns."

Aquila (Atmospheric Technician) [Engineering] asks, "Helix, dispense rods?"

Kyla Lacon (Xenobiologist) [science] asks, "What?"

HELIX (Cyborg) [Engineering] states, "Unit HELIX acknowledges."

NTAI-X (AI) [145.9] states, "Unknown intruder detected. ID: Reaper. In possession of a Nuclear Fission Explosive."

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] shouts, "Please get back to the station!"

Kiera Wolff (Security Officer) [security] says, "At medbay"

NTAI-X (AI) [145.9] states, "Location; Prison Wing."

Aaron Hawkins (Shaft Miner) [supply] says, "I don't damn know, girl."

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] sputters.

Karen Hawke (Medical Doctor) [145.9] asks, "Is that....is that bad?"

NTAI-X (AI) [145.9] states, "Very."

Kyla Lacon (Xenobiologist) [145.9] asks, "So, Stien, do we have a deal?"

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] triess speaking but fails.

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] says, "WHAT"

Priority Announcement

An emergency evacuation shuttle has been called. It will arrive in approximately 10 minutes.

Victor Kaipov (Security Officer) [security] says, "Get them and leg it, Wilson-"

Alice Wilson (Warden) [security] says, "Arrrmorrry is securrrre."

Victor Kaipov (Security Officer) [security] shouts, "Recall!"

Stein (Unknown) [145.9] says, "Im sorry to say. I was not in any position to make a deal."

Victor Kaipov (Security Officer) [security] exclaims, "They have bombs!"

Stein (Unknown) [145.9] says, "I apologize, I rather not see you all die."

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] shouts, "UH!"

Kyla Lacon (Xenobiologist) [145.9] says, "Well, you were sorta just getting them."

Victor Kaipov (Security Officer) [145.9] yells, "Recall the shuttle!"

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] shouts, "OH GOD!"

Phoebe Essel (Lab Assistant) [145.9] says, "I don't like dying."

Victor Kaipov (Security Officer) [145.9] shouts, "Situation has not been handled. /Recall/!"

NTAI-X (AI) [145.9] states, "The shuttle will be recalled if the Nuclear Device is dealt with."

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] exclaims, "Recall the shuttle!"

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] shouts, "RECALL THE SHUTTLE!"

NTAI-X (AI) [145.9] states, "It is blinking."

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] shouts, "FUCKING RECALL THE SHUTTLE!"

Phoebe Essel (Lab Assistant) [145.9] says, "..And I sort of have someone to come home to."

Victor Kaipov (Security Officer) [145.9] says, "Where. AI"

Stein (Unknown) [145.9] says, "My intention was not to kill you all. Please, know that I am sorry and will send something nice to your families."

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] yells, "WHERE!"

NTAI-X (AI) [145.9] states, "Prison Wing."

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] says, "OH my god where okay JUH PHOEBE"

Phoebe Essel (Lab Assistant) [145.9] asks, "What?"

Lachina Green (Medical Doctor) [145.9] asks, "We're fucking getting out of here you have science access right?"

Victor Kaipov (Security Officer) [security] shouts, "Get a toolbox to prison wing!"

[Frances]

Yeah, that does help clear up the situation. The one thing I was missing from this was your point of view, and now that that's a lot clearer I find it hard to blame you for any of what happened, given that the situation seemed like a lose/lose either way.

If anything, I think it was rather bad for the nuke ops to detonate the nuke this early. If the nuke was detonated as a direct result of the shuttle being called, it would have been nice if they had clearly stated they wanted the shuttle recalled, thus giving the crew a chance to continue the round, rather than ending it there.

Otherwise, it's sort of like holding someone hostage, never fully explaining to the people you're trying to coerce that you have a hostage or what you expect them to do/not do, then shoot the hostage the moment anything goes wrong. If the nuke ops had explained more clearly their intent, they could have easily gotten the shuttle recalled.

[Killerhurtz]

Okay I want to make a clarification. There was ONE head of staff (barely) alive outside of the station which may have been retrieved and repaired.

[K0NFL1QT]

A nuke op rushed for the disk, stole the Spare ID and blew up the Captains Office as they fled. Crew efforts were focused on not being caught in depressurized areas and performing repairs. I wasn't able to spare the time to monitor Sec activity, but I don't think Sec and the Ops ever really crossed paths. Stein decides to say hello and do his taunting over comms. Meanwhile Reaper blows his way into the prison and detonates the nuke.

It wasn't a bad nuke round, in that the Ops COULD have controlled the station a LOT more aggressively, making ridiculous demands, killing innocents and non-combatants, etc. But it wasn't really a good nuke either, because they had relatively no opposition on the station and instead of actually playing with a station at their mercy they just rushed for the disk and detonated. The Nukies seemed disorganized and lacked an actually creative plan for the antag role they were filling.

EDIT:

Sorry killerhurtz. The Research Director never responded again, on any channels, after screaming 'HELP'.

[Guest]

A nuke op rushed for the disk, stole the Spare ID and blew up the Captains Office as they fled. Crew efforts were focused on not being caught in depressurized areas and performing repairs. I wasn't able to spare the time to monitor Sec activity, but I don't think Sec and the Ops ever really crossed paths. Stein decides to say hello and do his taunting over comms. Meanwhile Reaper blows his way into the prison and detonates the nuke.

 

This is kind of powergaming, isn't it?

And I don't mean abusing crazy, unthought-of methods to win. I just mean they only played so they can get dat fukken disk, run back to the shuttle, grab the nuke, set it up on the station and blow it up. It wasn't original in the slightest, it's the classic, cookie-cutter 'robust' nuke ops scenario in which they're actually nuclear operatives and not anything else.

In an RP perspective this looks like this wasn't remotely interesting or interactive with the crew at all.

1AM in the fucking morning is pretty damn close to dead hour. Hell, it pretty much began last night at 9 o clock when we finally voted extended for some chill time and everyone fucked off. There's no security, no command staff, nobody to even counter this. There's little to no resistance and you decide to forego the challenge of antagging and doing something interesting for once?

Hell, if it was dead hour and there was nobody in security online and I was a nuke op, I'd just go and try mercenary/bounty-hunter roleplay by just asking around the crew and kidnapping whoever I please.

But, back on-topic. How is what I'm saying related to this discussion?

Because what the AI did was reactive. And it was perfectly sensible. It was also adhering to its laws.

What Meow outlined earlier was pretty much every way you can play it out, with high-risk outcomes that nobody wants to really take. The AI made a decision in the best interest of the crew.

The nuke ops however, did not make a decision in the best interest of roleplay. It sounded like they went from "meh, roleplay?" to "nah, nukes" pretty fast.

[Baka]

The time of the shuttle call through the time of the first raise of this topic, Scopes and I both unanimously agreed that the AI tried it's best to minimize damage to the crew by trying to get them to safety. There was no possible way that the AI could had saved everyone because of the scenario at the point and time with the nuke ops. In this case it was a lose-lose situation, with No Heads of Staff, the station in entire shambles, taunting terrorist, death, and overall confusion.

[Erik Tiber]

Yeah, I'd personally agree with that analysis. Sorry for some of my comments on OOC Konfliqt, I let my frustration bleed over. I'm more wondering at why the Nuke Ops decided to detonate the nuke when they did. I heard it was due to the crew not following their demands, but I don't know what those demands were, and they didn't seem to be communicated very effectively. I could see how they'd be annoyed at all the people talking back to the heavily armed terrorists over comms of course, but still.

Also, as a side note, I thought it was absolutely hilariosu when I saw a nuke op walking by medbay. I decided to have Lockie not notice at all, because I thought that would be absolutely hilarious, and just lol'd so hard when I saw a janitor pass by them. It was like they were going full Bolivian Fire Drill. And when I laughed about it in LOOC apparently nobody around me noticed the person in the blood red hardsuit. Oh god their reactions were hilarious.

[Baka]

So, given the explanation of the player in question, are all satisfied with the response of the AI?

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the Nuke Ops's actions of the round, rather the AI's calling of the shuttle.

[Frances]

Yes, I'd consider this settled.

I'd like to see the operative who chose to detonate the nuke talked to, at least? I don't know who it was and don't really want to bother making another complaint for the same thing, but I believe they should've given a clearer warning that a nuke was just about to blow up, or at least adminhelp their plan.

[Baka]

Excellent.

I will be locking and archiving this now. Do feel free to contact me for any more questions or comments regarding the topic if you feel this needs a re investigation.