Losing interest.

[Guest]

I'm getting burnt out, folks.

And it's mostly because of time and enthusiasm that, when lacking together, tends to make people lose interest and faith in things.

I've done a lot of talking with some old players lately, asked questions. Had short-to-medium-to-long discussions with them. Mostly discussing the future of Aurora, the current state of it, and its projected outcome for the near future.

At first, I disagreed with them. I had sufficient enough faith to believe that Aurora was worth seeing through until the end. That, possibly, they were wrong and that they were frustrated for different reasons besides just what was going on here.

But then I realized that for every time I tried arguing against their criticisms, I kept contradicting myself, and the goal/original scope for the server. It got to the point where I was lying to myself so I could be satisfied with what Aurora still has left.

And I also realized it's not Aurora that keeping me here. A long time ago, prior to the winter months, the administration just about thrived on its goal and only enforced the rules to assist in a fun experience, not so much immersive or otherwise realistic or practical. That has changed.

It was the people like Nursie. Serveris. Valkrae. And so on, that I enjoyed roleplaying with, that I could not only connect with in an IC sense, but honestly, in an OOC sense as well. People I just absolutely enjoy interacting with on or off. Probably one of the few best friends I've ever really had over the internet.

The old people left for their own reasons, I saw maybe one or two come back and then just head out again, grumbling about the same problems they saw with the server before. I noticed this discrepancy, and tried talking to them about it.

Turns out, they were right.

It sounds pretty pathetic and otherwise melodramatic to say the server is doomed or otherwise going down a path that would doom the rest of the community and completely warp its original intent, to provide a fun Heavy RP experience for anyone who wanted in.

But there are a lot of signs that are pointing that way, in that things aren't turning out the way they should. And I really don't feel like going down with the sinking ship.

These aren't problems anyone can fix, because the 'problems' themselves aren't something that can be changed overnight or just dispelled altogether, pretending they never existed. Hell, these are still the same problems we had in the winter months. We're still in a shitty slump.

I'll be deciding whether I stay or whether I go by the end of this month. Thanks for reading.

[Frances]

Aurora has changed!

For the better? For the worse? I don't know. I know I was happy with the way things were before (though some aspects of the server were horrible, and we improved a lot on several fronts), and now I don't know if I'm happy, but I'm certainly not dissatisfied or horrified.

I miss the old players, but I've met new ones (and some really great ones are returning). As far as saying that Aurora is doomed (to go down a different path from the one its creators originally envisioned), I don't know about that. People change, constantly. Both staff and players come in and out. If the state of the server is something you're not happy with, either bring your own change, or wait it out.

As I think I've said once, a long long time ago, the internet is a wonderful place, but nothing on it is perfect. And the best way to enjoy it is to take in the good with the bad, and not truly worry about the terrible things, because, y'know, they're gonna happen, but it doesn't mean more great things won't come to follow in the future.

[Guest]

I feel very much the same way.

I spend more time off-screen RPing than I do on Aurora. It's very hard for me to get decent RP, play command or generally enjoy the game. However, a lot of players don't have such issues. There are those who still have fun in it, play and RP. This alone makes me think that the server will survive, regardless of how many people come or go, because most of the staff are very dedicated.

I've been wandering it's not really the direction that the server is going to that is causing the issues, but rather the pace. Everyone is pushing for changes based on their own ideas on how it should be. No one has any idea what they want anymore, other than that untangable concept of good RP, which varries person to person.

For me personally, this is causing a lot of issues as I really have no idea what's going on anymore. This has only effected my trail mod performance in a negative way, as I have no idea what constitutes as what anymore. What is powergaming and what isn't. Griefing or not.

Either way, I'll admit I really can't grasp what's going on anymore, I can just say what made me stay on the server in the firstplace. It was the events, the creative antags and rounds, plus awesome people I've had a pleasure of playing and talking with. The good stuff.

These same issues have always been here and always will be, but they haven't bothered you that much. Probably because the net of your positive experiences outweight the bad. If you can't seem to enjoy the game anymore, I guess the only question left is why.

[mrimatool]

As pretty much the oldest(in terms of being here the longest) player on the server I've got to agree Aurora has changed, the staff tend to be less tolerant and a bit more miserable(Jokes on you you staff losers) but it has changed for the better in some ways like antags and development. I can understand why you want to go, and I'll say my goodbye. But you might be back one day...

[Jboy2000000]

I know the feel, I remember when I furst started playing Aurora, and Id play for hours and hours ever day, and now on average I pop on maybe three to four times a day, and almost never see a round to a crew transfer. Im not going to lie, Im almost grudgingly coming to Aurora now, I don't find it anywhere near as entertaining as it once was, and the thought only crosses my mind when theres nothing else for me to do. I think the only reason I still do bother to check Aurora anymore is because I feel king of obligated to do so because I know people here, and my character have freindships here, but thats not the point. I feel like RP, on this Heavy RP Server, has been falling for a long time. I think this was marked by when Extended was the gamemode 75% of the time, and then later it was marked by when even admins would say they haven't seen a round of extended and days, and we'd sometimes have nuclear three times in a row. Im gonna tag onto what Baka said, and be optimistake and hope Aurora gets better in time again, and hope enough people stick around to keep Aurora alive until then.

[Frances]

I've been given it a bit more thought this morning, and honestly -

I see the "this place has changed" threads and the issues with people finding the server not fun to be linked as part of the same problem.

When I was playing my most, few if any people were worrying about the state of the server. Now there seems to be a constant stream of people wanting to set specific rules, define roleplay, address issues (which for the most part are not really issues), and there used to be a certain laisser-faire about the server that is completely, well, gone. Everyone is being super serious. Part of it comes from the fact that we're bigger than we used to be, but I still want to think Aurora is a small community where you can get to know everyone - and the fact that it doesn't feel like you're simply chilling with a bunch of friends anymore sorta irks me.

Even some of the staff seems to have lost a lot of interest in the server's "fun" factor. There's barely any events being run (I used to do tons, so did Covert, Pumpking, and other people who have left) and I feel like in general, there's less staff involvement in-game than before (remember when Skull used to rate bomb tests as CentCom? That was hilarious.)

I'd like to see a return back to that. Stop worrying, stop being angry at things or thinking if a thing isn't fixed urgently the whole server will go to crap. There's only one kind of issues we should really worry about fixing, and these are the issues of people being mean to each other. Be nice, be friendly, and try to do your best to help others.

I see some of the oldest regulars still try to live by these tenets. They're just chill people, who don't really mind anyone or anything and are simply looking for a good time and a bit of fun. And I honestly think if you adopt that attitude too, you'll have an easier time.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Guest

[Guest Menown]

#lobbycamping

Seriously though, I'm going through the same thing. Mostly because I'm getting burnt out on the game itself. I don't really ever get much RP, but I'm oddly one of the people that plays for the game itself, not the RP. I've also got the attention span of a gnat, so that doesn't help.

[Tainavaa]

Now there seems to be a constant stream of people wanting to set specific rules, define roleplay, address issues (which for the most part are not really issues), and there used to be a certain laisser-faire about the server that is completely, well, gone.

[swat43]

Hoo dear. And i thought i was the ONLY one who thought like that.

Has the server changed? Yes. completely.

But what really changed in my honest opinion is.. the people themselves, through this game, if we are honest to.

I will tell from my personal experience why i do not play lately on Aurora, it is due to a fact that, there is nothing new to gain, no immersion, different characters, but played by the same people, no matter how good you roleplay you will be the same and you will gain nothing new, even if you do make 100 characters, you will lose interest of those, correct me if i am wrong of course, but that is unavoidable.

The first time i found out about Space station 13 is when i watched youtube about a guy who played as a traitor chaplain, killed captain and survived escaping alone on shuttle. It was at that moment i knew if i learned the game mechanic i would be such a bad ass like he was, running from the law and killing people with ease, but still having that awesome adrenaline rush.

As the time came by, i could never get better at being robust, and at that point, i said to myself, i will not be an antag, and if i was, i would be either a boring pacifist, or just ask admin to remove me. Because i know i will fail my objective/plan and then get brigged, the fear that there will always be more supperior people than me. And that's why i chair-rp or roleplay as a roboticists 24/7. Quiet and sometimes you get a decent ammount of rp from the job slot. And it kept me going on.

Over the years as my knowledge of the game gained, my interest slowly dwindles. Mind you this was while i was at AD13. That server was more or less deserted 20-24 people 24/7. But at least you had some sort of freedom there, and admins trusted you, that you wont be an ass hat and wont do anything dumb, you can do what ever you want, roleplay how much you want. But even then it was midiocre. Untill admins started to become ass hats them selves and had a small riot against them with other people.

I told Walter that time, that, with his attitude what he gives towards us, will make his server down. Guess i was right.

After that, i left it for good, sometimes poked my head inside how things changed, but it was going downhill. Untill i found this gem, a new home. Aurora. When i met you guys, i thought i could be something again, have a purpose again, and old symbol (Fortune) being revived again and show my potential.

It was hard at first, i was rather really childish as some people said. I was really carefree and people didn't liked it. So i changed my self. But then again, i think i changed up to much that, i feel out of energy, bored, and just simply grey and gooey. As if something drained me dry like a bloody sucking vampire, sitting on my back and just laughing sucks me and showing a thumb up my ass to keep moving. I think the seriousness that the server is going towards is probably to much. What if probably we limited the server to be serious and more realistic made was towards this road? It is only my thought, and i for one, wish it go down hill like that.

What's more important in my honest opinion is, we all, do not have any interests towards each other. As in, we are a big family, yet, we are just mainly strangers towards each other, another person to deal with and then forget once two-three months went by and get replaced by other new stranger.

All i have to mostly say is, the server is taking a really cloudy and dangerous road now. I would call it one of the crisis moments and we will have to do some big changes, i just feel it in my guts, and i always trust my instincts. They most of the time have not failed me. But what worries me most, is, how the big change will affect us all, the big family.. Us Aurorians.

*Jesus christ.. i never realised i can write that much.. T-T*

[Baka]

Let me ask you two question. Feel free to be honest.

What do you want? What do you expect?

[Tainavaa]

I just want to fucking play. That's what I expect.

[Guest Menown]

Let me ask you two question. Feel free to be honest.

What do you want? What do you expect?

 

Honestly, I want to be happy with my own choices. My issue isn't really like others' here, as I literally don't play much anymore. Just getting bored, I suppose. I've experienced all of the jobs this game has to offer, and I'm just burnt out. So, I don't have any issue with how anything is going. Just me being bored, and a dumb mew.

[Frances]

I just want to fucking play. That's what I expect.

I guess what Baka is asking, though, is more like "what is it you would like that you feel like you are not getting right now, and why?"

The "Aurora has changed" complaint is pretty common, but we generally get nothing more than very vague explanations about how "things used to be". It's hard to tackle a problem that has nothing concrete to it.

[Conservatron]

maybe im not as invested as a lot of you but the way i see it is ss13 is a game, play it if its fun, don't play it if its not. I only play a few times a week however, not like some of you who are on damn near all day from the looks of it.

[Tainavaa]

I guess what Baka is asking, though, is more like "what is it you would like that you feel like you are not getting right now, and why?

 

But here's the thing. "I just want to fucking play" answers that question just fine. I can't just play. I have to second guess everything I do because I might just get bwoinked. I can't just play. That's what I want, but I'm not allowed.

[Frances]

maybe im not as invested as a lot of you but the way i see it is ss13 is a game, play it if its fun, don't play it if its not. I only play a few times a week however, not like some of you who are on damn near all day from the looks of it.

I'm here to have fun too, even though I post a lot, and I believe it's the same for many other people who post (and fight, and argue) a lot. The thing is there's nothing wrong with being passionate, and we shouldn't look at people negatively simply because they take issues to heart.

It's the content of these discussions that's important. Not how much people talk about it, but whether they talk about it at all, or whether they don't.

 

But here's the thing. "I just want to fucking play" answers that question just fine. I can't just play. I have to second guess everything I do because I might just get bwoinked. I can't just play. That's what I want, but I'm not allowed.

It's they "why is this a problem" that people need to expand on. Share stories, give examples of how you feel the administration has gotten tighter, make the problem a concrete, observable one, so that it can be addressed.

[SgtSammac]

I'd like to see a return back to that. Stop worrying, stop being angry at things or thinking of a thing isn't fixed urgently the whole server will go to crap. There's only one kind of issues we should really worry about fixing, and these are the issues of people being mean to each other. Be nice, be friendly, and try to do your best to help others.

 

This, please this.

IT IS SO FRICKING BORING seeing five new complaints and incident reports for the most fucking minor of things every day, I remember the old days when it might have been one or two angry posts and then it was dropped, possibly after an admin intervention and then nothing happened. I remember a round with Sue where as HoS they jumped straight to lethal force, things got heated and LOOC ended up muted, I know I threatened to post a complaint, 5 minutes later? Situation was over and dealt with.

Serious incidents? Rule Breaking? Grief? Yea sure definately complaint time, but if its something that really isn't a big deal? Oh no you died, oh no this person insulted me. Boo dee hoo, its minor and it ain't the end the world

Peace out driving lesson time.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Guest

[Tainavaa]

It's they "why is this a problem" that people need to expand on. Share stories, give examples of how you feel the administration has gotten tighter, make the problem a concrete, observable one, so that it can be addressed.

 

I think you're already well acquainted with the "hardsuit redistribution" thing. I discussed this with Skull last night and I trust he'll keep his word on opening it up to admins for deliberation, and I hope the administration can agree that the situation isn't black and white after.

There is also the complaint from Skull about how Tina behaved as HOP after - as Rechkalov describes it - THE THING.

The past few days, I've played Anna Lee quite a bit. There are many situations where prisoners were just being pieces of shit and constantly pushed Anna's buttons. I would LOVE to have abused them, possibly killed one in particular just because how much of a shit they were being. She even made threats to him vaguely alluding to it. However OOC, I was very careful not to invoke the ire of the admins. I was certain even if I harmbatoned one that she was angry at and they were being ornery, I would get bwoinked. You played one of those shits, which I'm sure was your intent. I know you were an antagonist but even if you weren't I thought it was fine roleplay. Nothing wrong with it. Anna just wanted to hit you, and I was afraid to OOC because of administrative intervention.

Then there is the incident where I DID get bwoinked after throwing a flashbang. Anna Lee is a mission-oriented, results-driven person. Refering to the bare-knuckle boxing ring in the bar, there were quite a few spectators that were equal to in number - or greater in number than - the officers present. They all wanted the fight to go on. Honestly I wish it was allowed, I was going to try and hold bets under the table and I think that would have been awesome. But it wasn't. Two fighters still trying to fight. Spectators trying to argue to let it go. So I did the first thing you do in that situation. You assert control. Flashbang. "GRIEF!" they screamed in LOOC. "Wow," says an expert. I ignore it, and continue my business. I was bwoinked soon after about what I did. Thankfully the admin was understanding about it and let it go. The point is, I was bwoinked about something that should have been dealt with entirely IC.

I can't just play the game.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Guest

[swat43]

Let me ask you two question. Feel free to be honest.

What do you want? What do you expect?

 

What i want is not to be afraid of my actions that some one will not like it and then mob of people will mow me down with insults, warnings or just goes into a one sided argument where i won't be able to defend myself from the actions i've done myself. It reminds me of the one round where a player just LEFT the game when i Emaged him. It was my personal objective to subvert its laws, but then again i felt guilty of what i did, and feared if the guy will ever have fun roleplaying with me or not. Hell, i get afraid of any serious thing i have to do, HOPING no one will get on my ass and then tell me where i did wrong and then leave me with a bad ache in my heart.

I want people to understand, ANYTHING can happen, and EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME IS UNFAIR, DEAL WITH IT. We are trying to subvert this game to the realism which is NEAR THY IMPOSSIBLE! Stop it! The main proof are the damn character complaints! Thank god i see LESS of them, but i can still feel the hostility around the server, just waiting for the perfect time to get its prey and then try to wreck him in complaints.

What i expect is nothing. Not because i do not want to expect anything, but because i have not yet experienced the true feeling on Aurora that have made me felt good. I hope this answers your two questions, Baka.

[Tainavaa]

Thank you, Swat. It seems you and I are in a similar predicament.

[Frances]

-snip-

Sometimes staff simply needs to assess a situation (if a group of people gets flashbanged and people start complaining, you probably want to understand what's going on so at least you can explain it to the people complaining.) As long as you don't actually get punished or take crap over it, it's all good.

Some of these other things, however, I will have to agree are not okay. I've actually engaged in overpolicing myself, and have vastly reconsidered my stance since I was headmin. I think staff have started telling people how the game should be played, and that's not what staff should generally be here for. On one hand, we've got DOs now, which can engage in some IC character policing. So it's good that issue was mostly taken off the staff and put back in-game. But unless the case is a clear-cut one (such as a 19 year old geneticist), if there is any doubt as to whether a character's actions were questionable or not, then matters should be handled ICly as much as possible, not OOCly.

The hardsuit debate, for example, ended up being mostly staff trying to impose their own gameplay viewpoint upon other players, while trying to justify it with IC/lore reasons that were tacked-on. (I was guilty of this too. I hadn't thought about it much back then.) It bugs me that players are given less freedom than they used to have, either for the sake of realism (if we went the full, 100% realism route, that'd be boring, so realism shouldn't be a be-all end-all goal), or sometimes for the sake of absolutely nothing. Just this morning, Baka told me the staff had a debate over whether "Flashman-Adler" was an acceptable surname or not. Like, wat.

I remember that round where I was trying to get the warden to lose her shit (well it wasn't the warden, I had other motives, but I took the opportunity to do the exact same thing that another person had just done to her to get arrested because I thought it'd be hilarious). And the fact that you thought you couldn't beat me up or be a bit of a shit over it, I dunno, I don't get that? I don't understand what anyone gains in forcing players to show absolute restraint. Conflict is one of the biggest aspects roleplay thrives on. If security is destined to play an endless game of cops-and-robbers while acting all prim and proper, I dunno, that's just, sad.

I get that there's a fear of shitters, abusers, powergamers, etc. But the baby is being thrown out with the bathwater here.

[Tainavaa]

Things, and other stuff.

 

It's a relief to me that you see what was happening back then, because that's how I saw it and still see it. And it still pisses me off.

And it was hilarious what you did. But I was almost certain that I would get in trouble as well as LOOC rants as I'm accustomed to when doing something in security somebody doesn't like. And nobody gains anything when a closet sociopath can't do shit about someone not just fucking off after repeated warnings and even doing what I could LEGALLY and them STILL being a shit.

And I agree, that's what administrators should be for. Things like you described. But it's not what they're doing, and people can't just play the game.

I just. Want. TO PLAY. PLEASE? CAN I DO THAT?

[Frances]

And it was hilarious what you did. But I was almost certain that I would get in trouble as well as LOOC rants as I'm accustomed to when doing something in security somebody doesn't like. And nobody gains anything when a closet sociopath can't do shit about someone not just fucking off after repeated warnings and even doing what I could LEGALLY and them STILL being a shit.

I remember Jason Sanders, and how once HoS Milo Hachert, along with a mob of people, beat him to near-death in maintenance because he had pissed everyone off this much (and Milo got in deeeeep trouble for it if I recall correctly). He used as justification that "his loyalty implant commanded him to seek out the better good of the station, and since NanoTrasen wouldn't fire Sanders, he actually had to take the matter in his own hands".

That's the HoS, along with security, giving an outright mob beating to someone because that person slept around too much and no one liked them. Brilliant.

And yet, the sole justifications I hear being used to restrict players' actions would, by that same logic, absolutely prevent things like that from happening. Yes, the HoS beating someone is terrible, terrible. But if they have a reason? And there's leadup? And it makes sense? And it's cool, or funny?

The leading rationale behind any decisions taken OOC should be "is it cool/fun, and can it bother/harm anyone?" Nothing else.

[Tainavaa]

I completely agree. And I remember that particular event being a huge deal on the station and everybody was talking about it IC. It was cool, and it felt like the station had an ongoing story and their actions meant something.

But I still feel the need to restrain myself from anything that might be improper because I am CONVINCED I'm going to get in trouble. So. Swat has a similar issue, and I'm sure others do as well. To those who are reading, do with that information what you will.

tl;dr

ADMINISTRATORS AND MODS ARE PISSING ME OFF

 

To put it in a blunt, black-and-white manner.

[Eliot Clef]

I'd like to offer a few examples of non-bwoink instances of people just not being able to Do Stuff without fearing of getting hassled, because it's something I think is pretty prevalent:

#1: In a recent round, Security witnessed the QM modifying his console pretty much immediately. What ensued was a good half hour of security harassing this guy over and over, supported by the AI performing lockdowns on QM. Internal arguing on what to do with the QM lasted for a good hour, and I (as IAM) eventually went to the RD (only Head of Staff) to get her to assign an acting HoS to stop the infighting.

#2: Genetics in general. A good amount of what a Geneticist can and should do in a round is completely disallowed due to "player" testing requiring paperwork. And you know what? I don't have a problem getting permission for this. But I've also seen people denied self or human testing permits solely because the RD didn't like it. We don't want rampaging Hulks for a reason, but is the threat of rampaging Hulks really so massive that Genetics should be a boring, crippled department at the whim of whichever Head of Staff is around? Research isn't DISALLOWED from researching weapons, even if they're not allowed to use them, and it's not uncommon for Stun Revolvers to get distributed to security.

#3: Modification of station areas. Even overhauling places like the Vacant Office, which are 100% useless and exist almost for the sole purpose of traitor shenanigans or modification, will get you arrested if you didn't do paperwork for it.

#4: Right now, there's a thread discussing ERT chain of command and making ERT subordinate to on-station Heads of Staff, because on the occasion that ERTs are called it is believed that they are sometimes chucklefucks. I can at least understand where heavily-armed all-powerful chucklefucks might be a problem, but I feel that the knee-jerk "You're doing it wrong!" mentality being objected to in this thread is present in this suggestion as well.

Hope I didn't slide too far off-topic with this, and I don't mean to put words in anybody's mouths. I'd actually appreciate knowing whether or not my perception of the problem is in line with the rest of you.