Remove/Tweak blood boil.

[Guest]

See title. Blood boil is a pandora's box that can be opened in any instance should a few cultists decide to do so. And the thing is, blood boil has either the capacity to instacrit or kill absolutely instantly. There is no way you can possibly react to it when this rune is cast, it's based on line of sight. (More accurately, based on area, but you get the point.)

Blood boil's entire design was focused on killing noncultists in an absolute instance, whether it be security, engineers or even mere doctors who are doing nothing but their job.

And the worst part is that blood boil can also be put onto a talisman and used without any drawbacks or prerequisites.

It's a highly powerful gank tool that doesn't do anything but take up to 20 people out of the round if put onto a rune or talisman. It's much riskier on a rune because two or three people could be clicking the blood boil rune at the same time, thus stacking and spamming the blood boil and causing over 200 combined health damage. That means, with one cast, it can put anyone into a -40 to -110 health percentage range within a single server tick.

This is highly unbalanced and it's not fair to anyone afflicted by blood boil at all. It has the capacity to instantly take several players out of the round without warning.

There is no reason this spell should exist on a roleplaying server.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Guest

[Hackie]

Eh, I dunno how to feel about this. Seeing as we've as cultists have A LOT of tools to kick ass and chew bubblegum. Instead of destroying it, we should nerf it in some way? Make it damage cultists more, lower the damage overall. But, you do understand that other people have awesome tools for killing cultists? I mean, lasers... bullets.. tasers... or, Sniper rifles? I dunno, it depends on Skull's opinion.

[Tainavaa]

I do not support this suggestion.

Blood boil is hardly used and takes effort to coordinate a blood boil cast, or get it on a talisman. If you're caught out on it, chances are you walked into a trap mindlessly or a well-done trap in part of the cultists. I would prefer it kept. Cultists aren't given guns or any ranged attack really. This is an alternative to it, and a creative one I feel.

[EvilBrage]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves by throwing out numbers without knowing what we're talking about. So here's the relevant code entry for the blood boil cult rune:

 

bloodboil() //cultists need at least one DANGEROUS rune. Even if they're all stealthy.
/*
		var/list/mob/living/carbon/cultists = new
		for(var/datum/mind/H in ticker.mode.cult)
			if (istype(H.current,/mob/living/carbon))
				cultists+=H.current
*/
		var/culcount = 0 //also, wording for it is old wording for obscure rune, which is now hide-see-blood.
//			var/list/cultboil = list(cultists-usr) //and for this words are destroy-see-blood.
		for(var/mob/living/carbon/C in orange(1,src))
			if(iscultist(C) && !C.stat)
				culcount++
		if(culcount>=3)
			for(var/mob/living/carbon/M in viewers(usr))
				if(iscultist(M))
					continue
				var/obj/item/weapon/nullrod/N = locate() in M
				if(N)
					continue
				M.take_overall_damage(51,51)
				M << "\red Your blood boils!"
				if(prob(5))
					spawn(5)
						M.gib()
			for(var/obj/effect/rune/R in view(src))
				if(prob(10))
					explosion(R.loc, -1, 0, 1, 5)
			for(var/mob/living/carbon/human/C in orange(1,src))
				if(iscultist(C) && !C.stat)
					C.say("Dedo ol[pick("'","`")]btoh!")
					C.take_overall_damage(15, 0)
			del(src)
		else
			return fizzle()
		return

 

So what does this mean?

 

2. The rune does not, in fact, send people into crit instantly. It does 51 burn damage when invoked, despite the initial post. It also damages all cultists for 15 damage.
4. You cannot place this rune onto a talisman, despite the initial post's claim.
   
6. The rune has a ten percent chance to explode, and considering the individuals who will be standing next to said rune, it is incredibly risky to invoke.

 

The rune has the potential to be be incredibly damaging, yes - but using it over and over again ensures not only broken bones and organs, but also a very real chance that it will explode and seriously harm the cultists around it. It is limited to a rune, so its use as an offensive weapon is almost nil, and good luck convincing your brothers to sacrifice their health for a very unstable chance at killing the opposition. The coder who put the rune in has already summed up my thoughts on the matter:

 

//cultists need at least one DANGEROUS rune. Even if they're all stealthy.

[Guest]

Why does it need to exist? Give me one good reason why it needs to exist.

Also, no. The code displayed does not accurately show what happens in-game. I've medscanned someone before who got blood boiled as a cultist. They were inflicted with 51-56 burn and 46-50 brute.

That put them into crit instantly.

The code is not indicating what is actually applying in-game. Something is not working as intended.

In addition, why does something like this need to exist? It's free damage (or kills.) for a really small requirement of needed cultists.

[EvilBrage]

Why does it need to exist? Give me one good reason why it needs to exist.

 

I understand your antipathy towards antagonists, but as you may note in the above few posts, there is literally no other weapon in the cult arsenal that can do damage at range.

 

The code displayed does not accurately show what happens in-game.

 

The code displayed shows exactly what happens in-game. It's literally the code referenced when the rune is invoked, so unless you were there from start to finish and were able to isolate all other forms of damage from the individual in a controlled environment, then something else happened to them to give them that brute damage or you're misremembering the facts. "Randomly apply extra brute damage" is not something that just happens to a code.

Also, you have no idea how difficult it is to get three cultists to surround a rune at the same time someone is barging into your cult hideout. It's a stroke of wonderful luck to even get nine out of twenty cultists to assemble to bring about Nar'sie.

[Guest]

I understand your antipathy towards antagonists, but as you may note in the above few posts, there is literally no other weapon in the cult arsenal that can do damage at range.

 

So why do it to everyone? Even to those you don't intend to kill?

 

The code displayed shows exactly what happens in-game. It's literally the code referenced when the rune is invoked, so unless you were there from start to finish and were able to isolate all other forms of damage from the individual in a controlled environment, then something else happened to them to give them that brute damage or you're misremembering the facts. "Randomly apply extra brute damage" is not something that just happens to a code.

Also, you have no idea how difficult it is to get three cultists to surround a rune at the same time someone is barging into your cult hideout. It's a stroke of wonderful luck to even get nine out of twenty cultists to assemble to bring about Nar'sie.

 

No, I do not think you've actually experienced a cult round where blood boil was used. I, as a scientist, security officer, engineer, with varying levels of armoring even though it doesn't even matter, have been afflicted by blood boil before. Each and every time, I have been floored instantly, given sufficient enough damage to the point where my screen goes almost entirely white and the only thing I can see is the blur of my mob, from 100% health to -80%, and then hastily dumping down to -100%.

I asked serveris to check my vars at the time of my death earlier today. He stated I had 50-50 burn/brute ratio right after blood boil was used, and I distinctly remember being at 100% prior to the encounter. The logs stated that only one cultist had actually tapped the rune.

In addition, with the combined efforts of Duck, myself and Alberyk, we managed to instantly kill half of the 16 noncultists in the escape wing with blood boil on the first cast. The second cast sentenced them to absolute death.

[Eliot Clef]

Just some quick input:

I've only seen Blood Boil used a couple of times. Generally Cultists find other ways to murder everyone.

On the rare occasion that it has been used, it killed everyone immediately. Braces/DuckDuckNoose even got a tempban for using it and killing everyone in escape instantly. People's heads melted instantly. So, it may not make sense with whatever the code describes, I've only ever seen it to do what I've described just now.

It was also used once today, in a recent cult round. Same result, as far as I could tell. Damn near everyone near it dropped dead, if not everyone.

[EvilBrage]

Oh man I can't believe I missed it.

 

M.take_overall_damage(51,51)

 

51 burn, 51 brute. Okay, so I didn't spot that 51 was repeated twice. The brute damage will, more likely than not, cause fun broken bones and organ damage that will indeed contribute to the continued degradation of the individual. Still, it can't be used in a talisman and it's not versatile or safe for the cultists in the slightest. If you're using it twice, sure you're killing everyone around it, but you're still looking at a 19% chance that you're going to be blown up along with your rune. The risk/reward management comes into effect there in a similar vein to the revolver thread; if you've seen blood boil happen or heard that runes can kill people, it's really your own fault for getting anywhere close to it. If you haven't and you fall victim to one, well, better luck next time.

Maybe this thread will need revisiting when Blood Boil becomes the go-to rune for murderboning, but considering that you only ever see that rune once in a blue moon, I don't think we need any changes.

[Guest]

Maybe this thread will need revisiting when Blood Boil becomes the go-to rune for murderboning, but considering that you only ever see that rune once in a blue moon, I don't think we need any changes.

Delta, you and Duck are the only people I have known to use this rune.

 

Braces/DuckDuckNoose even got a tempban for using it and killing everyone in escape instantly

Because the reason they did it was just for the lols in escape, and it was casted twice or three times that event.

[Guest]

I don't know what duck knew, but I didn't know it would do this:

 

M.take_overall_damage(51,51)

 

To everyone in the surrounding area, I mean. From what I read in the wiki, it looked to me like it was an easy incapacitate rather than a death sentence to all nearby noncultists involved.

In addition, Duck was given the 3 day ban because it was EoR grief.

[Jamini]

I'm fine with the damage on it, myself. It's not an easy rune to use by any means.

If anything, I'd suggest a simple short delay with a warning included. Something along the lines of...

 

bloodboil() //cultists need at least one DANGEROUS rune. Even if they're all stealthy.
/*
        var/list/mob/living/carbon/cultists = new
        for(var/datum/mind/H in ticker.mode.cult)
           if (istype(H.current,/mob/living/carbon))
              cultists+=H.current
*/
        var/culcount = 0 //also, wording for it is old wording for obscure rune, which is now hide-see-blood.
//         var/list/cultboil = list(cultists-usr) //and for this words are destroy-see-blood.
        for(var/mob/living/carbon/C in orange(1,src))
           if(iscultist(C) && !C.stat)
              culcount++
        if(culcount>=3)
           for(var/mob/living/carbon/M in viewers(usr))
              M << "\red The air around you grows hot!"
              wait(50) //I believe this should be about five seconds? More than long enough to BOOK IT
              if(iscultist(M))
                 continue
              var/obj/item/weapon/nullrod/N = locate() in M
              if(N)
                 continue
             if(M in viewers(usr))
                 M.take_overall_damage(51,51)
                 M << "\red Your blood boils!"
             else
                 M << "\red You feel a blast of heat at your back!
              /*if(prob(5))
              *   spawn(5)
              *     M.gib()
              */
              //This is terrible. Kill this bit of code with fire.
           for(var/obj/effect/rune/R in view(src))
              if(prob(10))
                 explosion(R.loc, -1, 0, 1, 5)
           for(var/mob/living/carbon/human/C in orange(1,src))
              if(iscultist(C) && !C.stat)
                 C.say("Dedo ol[pick("'","`")]btoh!")
                 C.take_overall_damage(15, 0)
           del(src)
        else
           return fizzle()
        return

 

Also, get rid of that fucking gib chance. 5% chance of ranged unavoidable permadeath for a rune is shit. Utter shite.

[Guest]

I've another idea, actually.

 

bloodboil() //cultists need at least one DANGEROUS rune. Even if they're all stealthy.
/*
        var/list/mob/living/carbon/cultists = new
        for(var/datum/mind/H in ticker.mode.cult)
           if (istype(H.current,/mob/living/carbon))
              cultists+=H.current
*/
        var/culcount = 0 //also, wording for it is old wording for obscure rune, which is now hide-see-blood.
//         var/list/cultboil = list(cultists-usr) //and for this words are destroy-see-blood.
        for(var/mob/living/carbon/C in orange(1,src))
           if(iscultist(C) && !C.stat)
              culcount++
        if(culcount>=3)
           for(var/mob/living/carbon/M in viewers(usr))
              M << "\red The air around you grows hot!"
              wait(50) //I believe this should be about five seconds? More than long enough to BOOK IT
              if(iscultist(M))
                 continue
              var/obj/item/weapon/nullrod/N = locate() in M
              if(N)
                 continue
             if(M in viewers(usr))
                 M.take_overall_damage(0,80)
                 M << "\red Your blood boils!"
             else
                 M << "\red You feel a blast of heat at your back!
              /*if(prob(5))
              *   spawn(5)
              *     M.gib()
              */
              //This is terrible. Kill this bit of code with fire.
           for(var/obj/effect/rune/R in view(src))
              if(prob(10))
                 explosion(R.loc, -1, 0, 1, 5)
           for(var/mob/living/carbon/human/C in orange(1,src))
              if(iscultist(C) && !C.stat)
                 C.say("Dedo ol[pick("'","`")]btoh!")
                 C.take_overall_damage(15, 0)
           del(src)
        else
           return fizzle()
        return

 

Instead of giving surrounding noncultists instant broken bones and organs, I'd suggest giving them immense (but not instantly lethal) amounts of burn damage to put them into instant paincrit instead (thanks to how burn afflicts halloss). Now, the cultists can do whatever they want with whomever got floored. They can tap twice if they so wish.

[Jamini]

That would make blood boil less lethal overall. Perhaps decent. I'd still like a bit of a wind-up (which you didn't remove) and removal of the 5% chance of instagib.

[mrimatool]

I'm perfectly fine with how it is. I've used it once to summarily execute someone who refused to convert, and it was bloody brilliant. It's rarely used and I think because of that it doesn't really need a nerf, if it becomes the primary weapon of the cult then maybe - but currently as it stands I feel like it's fine.

[Frances]

There is nothing wrong with a 5% instagib chance, given how rarely the rune is used. It adds a small factor of randomness and can result in some funny or unexpected events (yes, people dying unexpectedly all the time is terrible. People dying unexpectedly once is hilarious.)

[Tainavaa]

While I don't agree that the 5% instagib should be in place, I do agree that dying unexpectedly once in a while in - in fact - hilarious.

[Guest]

Dying unexpectedly in a horrible way? Yeah, I could totally be onboard with that. However, a full gibbing completely takes you out of the round with no chance for recovery other than the 30 minute wait period.

So, maybe tone the gibbing down a bit as well, but change it so that, yes, you do die because of that off-chance of God hating you. But instead of turning into a pile of unrecoverable gibs, merely make it so that all your limbs fly off your body instead.

*nod