Bashing Detectives on the head.

[Jakers457]

Alright, let me put it out there, I am a Detective player or used to be and I disagreed at first with what was suggested but it's time for me to support it and bring it up.

Remove lab access for Detectives. Why? Because they're a liability, they steal the CSI's kit and fail to get into their thick skulls that the crate from cargo lacks the gear to replace the kit. It's only caused issues, prevented CSI players from doing their job and jams a flaccid cock into an investigation's gears.

Detectives deal with witnesses, investigation and following leads. CSI deal with the forensics side of things, and this should be made clear. By a solid crack on their thick skull with a baton, covered in barbed wire and salt. Or preferably, keeping them the fuck out of the lab.

[Frances]

I do think the detective should be able to access the CSI's equipment if needed. I don't think they should be able to grab it without informing anyone then simply disappear.

Removing their access would ensure that they'd have to get the assistance of the HoS, AI, or an engineer to get the kit, one of which should hopefully be around to give it to them should the situation call for it.

[Jakers457]

Perhaps, but sadly I've witnessed the general shittery too many rounds and feel they lack the right to be able to fuck with the lab. I was against removing their access at first, thinking that they should learn to work together. But I've lost my patience personally and I feel bad for the CSI players who come to their labs, only to find their kit's gone missing because the Detective dragged it to the nearest dark tunnel so they can go brain dead.

[Guest]

I say, give them access to the crime scene kit crate if its restricted. Since it has the stuff to take prints, its enough for them to use without taking CSI's job

[Jakers457]

The crate from cargo lacks the more important kit.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why don't you punish the shitlers stealing the items instead of punishing everyone? I happen to utilize CSI access to great effect as detective.

[Guest]

GPS trackers on CSI kits when.

[Eliot Clef]

You could also just give Detectives their own CSI kit. Maybe one with only the contents you can get from a relevant crate, so they're not quite as well-equipped as a real forensic tech.

[jackfractal]

Why not just make the crate contain all the relevant supplies? Isn't that just an oversight?

[Jakers457]

Detectives aren't forensics, so giving them a kit would make them irrelevant and you may aswell have twO CSI's at that point. As for punishing everyone else? It's not punishment, Detective and CSI are two different roles, if you want to do forensics then by common sense you'll be choosing CSI over Detective. As for punishing shitlers? Why should we have to put up having to deal with a Detective stealing shit? Why should those playing CSI have to deal with not being able to do their job?

I used to think, no way, don't remove the access because that would suck. But after playing the HoS and an Officer having to deal with shitler detectives more often than not, has lead to me think that we should keep them separate by any means. You say why punish everyone? I say why do FT's have to suffer most of the time?

That's like going Medical Doctor and then hijacking the Surgeon's job. Or barging the HoP out of the way as a Captain to work his job. It's shitty for the guy who chose the job and it can causes tension in the department. Detectives should keep to their own roles, or be removed for the sake of two FTS with two kits. Even as a patron of the Detective role, I'm finding them to be quite useless at this point, even with the very rare decent Detective that shows up, it doesn't justify to me, all the issues that I've experienced.

[Tainavaa]

I agree that we shouldn't punish everyone because we have a few shitlers. So I think we should do as I always do as Anna. Street fucking justice.

[Frances]

That's like going Medical Doctor and then hijacking the Surgeon's job. Or barging the HoP out of the way as a Captain to work his job.

Except these are both positions that one can take over when the other isn't around. MDs and surgeons even have the same access as they're title variants of the same job.

Err, anyway.

The thing about MDs doing surgery and Captains doing the HoP's work actually got me thinking that the rest of these departments tend to have no issues with people filling in for various jobs until the personnel for these jobs becomes available. I've also rarely seen the detective fuck off with the CSI kit (unless they were in the process of using it, in which case it makes perfect sense), but IANAFT (I Am Not A Forensics Tech), so I can't really speak for how much of an annoyance this actually is or not.

[Jakers457]

It's an example, you wouldn't like it if you picked a role to play, only realize someone's hijacking your job and leaving you out in the cold. I don't play FT, but I'm trying to speak on their behalf. Often have I experienced the chase of trying to find the Detective who fucked with off the kit after the CSI calls out that his lab's been emptied of equipment.

There's also a flip side to this, CSI won't be able to go into the Detective's office to steal his gun and such. Which is more or less an equal compromise. If needs insist, the Detective can get access for the lab but I cannot fathom why you would choose Detective so you can play FT. If you wish to do forensics, then choose that job otherwise you're throwing logic out of the window in my opinion.

The only other options I can see is removing detectives completely and creating a two piece team in forensics with a kit each. Or locking the kit in a locker that only the FT has access to, as with the revolver. The Detective has no business doing forensics, neither does the FT with a gun. It's not entirely punishing everyone, it's giving Security a break from having to deal with the constant bickering, if anything it spares a lot of trouble and energy.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

... If you don't even play forensics tech how can you possibly know how this is all affecting the FT job.

Like I literally play detective/sec quite a bit (though not recently) and I've never heard more than the rare complaints from FT about detectives getting their shit, and even then the detective was a poor player in general and had other factors that made him a bad one. FT's and detective's even benefit from the access, and stripping it away again would just be frustrating and solve a minor problem with a tactical nuclear warhead level response.

[jackfractal]

Could someone tell me whats' missing from the cargo crate? I can add it really easy.

[Jakers457]

Because when you play the Hos or a Security Officer, you usually have to deal with the problem. And it's a problem we simply shouldn't have to deal with because people insist on having an identity crisis with their job and want to be apparently self sufficient. I've had to deal with shitler Detectives, a few of them are repeat offenders mind you, and I've also had to deal with CSI sitting in the Detective's Office going 'is my office cus i has acces m8.' The Detective isn't the FT and the FT isn't the Detective, yes they are a team but that only reinforces the point they should rely on eachother's abilities and training, not cover the other's role. The FT relies on the Detective to question the people linked to the case and going out on the field to follow up on the leads, and the Detective relies on the FT to find leads and potentially suspects through the crime lab. In a way, giving them separate access gives them more a reason to lean on each other.

And perhaps this thread will make me the most unpopular guy, but I'm sadly going to be pushing this case as far as I can. Because as I've said, I've lost my patience with it. Hell I was on your side of the river but now I can't really see the entitlement of having the lab access justifying it all. Like I said, if you want to play FT, then choose FT.

[Susan]

Hi.

As someone who did this rework from the ground up with Skull,

The forensics crate only has certain items for a reason. The detective does not need his own kit or tools and has no business using or taking the CSI's tools without the knowledge on how to use them and there being an immediate pressing need to do so, IE murder with no active CSI.

A police detective and a Crime Scene Unit are two utterly different things in two utterly different fields. Stop fucking touching other people's shit. Stop trying to justify them touching other people's shit. Stop trying to add shit to make it okay for them to be dual detective-CSI.

[jackfractal]

So, wait. The forensics crate purposefully does not have the things needed to do forensics, because people who need to do forensics might order them?

And in the event that the CSI kit is stolen, lost, blown up, or disappears into the lands of SSD, it's better to be unable to replace it, then for people who are not the forensic tech to be able to order more?

That's... an interesting choice.

[Jakers457]

So, wait. The forensics crate purposefully does not have the things needed to do forensics, because people who need to do forensics might order them?

And in the event that the CSI kit is stolen, lost, blown up, or disappears into the lands of SSD, it's better to be unable to replace it, then for people who are not the forensic tech to be able to order more?

That's... an interesting choice.

 

Now do you see why I'm adamant about my argument?

[Guest]

Originally they were split apart, people complained that they were separate. I don't know why they were merged again. Then again I didn't touch forensics apart from bugfixes.

[Susan]

The forensics crate carries refills for swabs and other assorted miscellany. Yes, if an antagonist is smart enough to dispose of the forensic tools, much like how they could C4 the scanning computer in the past, they shouldn't be shit on and have them just go order more expensive equipment.

[K0NFL1QT]

Why don't you punish the shitlers stealing the items instead of punishing everyone? I happen to utilize CSI access to great effect as detective.

 

I'm sure the EMTs could greatly utilize the surgery tools, or the barman could greatly utilize the chemists chem dispensor. That's not the point, Jackboot. You want to play Detective, play Detective. You want to play Forensic Tech, play Forensic Tech. Not both at the same time. The Forensic Tech lost their autopsy table without any discussion. Now, more than before, we need to stress the differences between Detective and Forensic Technician by separating their access.

 

FT's and detective's even benefit from the access, and stripping it away again would just be frustrating and solve a minor problem with a tactical nuclear warhead level response.

 

No, they don't. Unless it's on the rare occasion when the characters have a natural tendency to respect each others boundaries and job roles. Which is exceedingly rare. The access was removed after a long discussion, and then recently reinstated without any discussion or community input.

[K0NFL1QT]

Bumping this, seeing as Detective-CSI access is still open.