keinto Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 Replace the current construction materials such as metal, plasteel, solid plasma, sand, iron, etc, with a Construction Device for every Engineer. Construction materials: -Become unusable on their own, except glass. Windoor option of reinforced glass becomes available only with CD's. - Normal glass keeps its current functions. The Construction Device: - Starts out inside Engineers' backpacks with 10 units of metal, enough for about 2 walls. Once they take it out, it cannot go back in, like secure briefcases in the custom loudout. - Cannot instantly build floors/walls/airlocks, and does not have a deconstruction setting like the current RCD. - Can hold all current construction materials and build all items respective to each material, with a small delay for each item once it starts constructing them. - Can either hold 50 units 2 or 3 different materials at once and user can switch between desired material through the menu. Or only one material at a time, which would make it more tedious. - When emagged, gains all the functions of the current RCD/Builds contraband items? - Is a bulky-size item that can only fit in your suit storage if you are wearing a hazard vest. - Can be ordered through Cargo for a fairly high amount of points. Maybe with an ID-locked crate as well. - Can be constructed by Research. The current RCD: - Keeps the same name, or becomes the Superior Construction Device. - Keeps all of its current functions, along with the new ones. - When emagged, builds contraband items? - Stays a normal-sized item/Also becomes bulky-size? It would be a huge change for Engineering. Some of it could be taken out, like the emagg function, or being able to have 3 different materials at once. Aside from that, it makes it less immersion-breaking when an entire gas canister or airlock assembly is pooped out from someone. It also stops people whose profession isn't anywhere related to Engineering from building entire walls or metal/plasteel bats out of nowhere with the stupidly easy and quick way we have now, unless they have an CD with them, which should make them look suspicious. It also promotes more departmental cooperation with Engineering, even Atmospherics. I don't think Atmos should start out with CD's.
Guest Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 This is a pretty neat idea, actually. I'd like to see it put into practice.
Jamini Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 Honestly, don't like this idea at all. While I do like the idea of a construction device instead of pooping out metal bits with our hands. I can't support something that will utterly kill anyone except engineers from construction or remodeling at all. SS13 has been designed and constructed with the intent to have building be fast and easy. It's a major draw for the game. The only way I can support this is if this device was plentiful, easy to attain, and fits in a backpack. (I'm talking 5+ in tool storage, one for every member of engineering, two in research, two in cargo that can be built in an autolathe, and no more expensive than a stack of metal for cargo) Restricting construction too much to engineering cuts out assistant's ability to assist quite a great deal, and also would drastically reduce the amount of work that engineers have (which is a bad thing, since we already get lots of SSDs in slow rounds!) We need construction to remain fairly easy to perform. ------------------- Another alternative is to look into having tools make parts, instead of making them from the sheet itself. I.E. Wrench > Metal sheet >Menu -Table Parts -Chair -Rack pats Welder > Metal sheet >Menu -Rods -Floor Tiles -ETC
Crescentise Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 This whole thread is a very good because objects pooping out of nowhere kills my immershuns. However, Jamini has a fair point. I do like his alternative, as long as the menu was easy to use and well-designed (R&D needs this too, hohmygod).
PoZe Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 The other point of device is means that it's a 3d printer. So every assistant can use it, because it's 2457 with good interface, that will kill the purpose for calling the engineer if you need something build make. We need to make this tool more complicated, so it will require specialist knowledge's, skills. Maybe add some lore and description like you need to draw the material, choose their molecular structure on the device screen, etc.
Frances Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 I can't support something that will utterly kill anyone except engineers from construction or remodeling at all. Jamini is right. A tool like this would mean no antags outside of engineering building impromptu stuff. In general, it'd either limit construction to engineering exclusively (the device being too complicated to be used by non-engineers), or overcomplicate the building process for the sake of "realism" while bringing little else (if anyone can get it and use it anyway, and it has little bearing on gameplay, why even have it?).
keinto Posted June 14, 2015 Author Posted June 14, 2015 Honestly, don't like this idea at all. While I do like the idea of a construction device instead of pooping out metal bits with our hands. I can't support something that will utterly kill anyone except engineers from construction or remodeling at all. SS13 has been designed and constructed with the intent to have building be fast and easy. It's a major draw for the game. The only way I can support this is if this device was plentiful, easy to attain, and fits in a backpack. (I'm talking 5+ in tool storage, one for every member of engineering, two in research, two in cargo that can be built in an autolathe, and no more expensive than a stack of metal for cargo) If all of the departments you listed start out with a CD, I can't help it but to compare it to giving all of them a flash as well, or any other Security defensive tool. Why don't they get flashes or batons? Because it makes you call for Security. Why doesn't every department get an autolathe? Because it makes you get Cargo. Why doesn't every department get a sleeper like Medbay? Afterall, accidents can happen in any department, right? Because it makes you cooperate with Medbay, and your character should have little idea of how to use it. If you need protection, you get Security. If you need treatment, you get Medbay. If you need complicated devices, you get Research. If you need construction, you get Engineering. With the way construction currently works, engineering tasks are not only the most immersion-breaking when done by an unqualified person, it's also one of the quickest and so easy to get away with that people don't care or notice. Restricting construction too much to engineering cuts out assistant's ability to assist quite a great deal, and also would drastically reduce the amount of work that engineers have (which is a bad thing, since we already get lots of SSDs in slow rounds!) We need construction to remain fairly easy to perform. I think you mean it reduces the amount Assistants have, and not Engineering? Even then, most rounds in Engineering consist of people sitting in the lobby, waiting for something to break, until they also get SSD. You were telling me that attitude is the core of this problem, and I agree, but the current mechanics make Engineers almost needless when when it comes to anything that is not fixing breaches or big projects. Let them do the more subtle things, like instantly building a table or a chair where people need it. With a lot of time, and a proper guide, someone could indeed build a table with materials. But the game makes you do it instantly, and we all know no one is ever going to emote an entire hour of building a table. If you are an Assistant, then help with the more basic tasks like moving things from point A to B, or organizing paperwork, or cleaning, or helping the Bartender serve drinks, or helping the Chef keep the Cafeteria decent. I think you are allowing Assistants and other personnel do things way too advanced like using a CD. Another alternative is to look into having tools make parts, instead of making them from the sheet itself. I.E. Wrench > Metal sheet >Menu -Table Parts -Chair -Rack pats Welder > Metal sheet >Menu -Rods -Floor Tiles -ETC Before commenting on this, allow me to quote you on what you said over skype regarding this suggestion: Keep it to one item, maybe add some flavor text about the buildingSo it is just the welder, but you get some flufftext... Roy Wyatt starts building a canister! Roy Wyatt places some metal on the ground! Roy Wyatt scores the metal, bending up the sides of the canister! Roy Wyatt welds the seams of the canister shut! I like this suggestion a lot as well. It doesn't make Engineers as necessary, but at least people need to get tools beforehand. My main issue is big and complicated objects coming out of people's hand and simple metal sheets. Your idea makes it enjoyable to watch and with some proper delay, more immersive. Regarding France's reply on antags, then make it orderable through tele-crystals, and make it fit into a backpack. The bulky-size was to counter the fact that it can hold 50 sheets of multiple types of materials, which should make it a big device.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 I don't really see the necessity of this. It completely throws out the core aspect of construction, and removes that from the hands of anyone without the specific tool. I /do/ like the idea of using tools on metal sheets to get different builds, though.
jackfractal Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 I realize that I'm rapidly becoming 'the robot guy' but any implementation of this needs to remember our tiny robot pals. No hands mean that they can't use one item on another, and they can't directly drop metal sheets to use them on the ground. I do really like the idea though. I've seen a ton of 'lets make construction more interesting' idea threads on various SS13 forums, and Jamini's idea is the most functional I've seen.
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