Cyborg 'Heroes'

[UnknownMurder]

BYOND Key:

UnknownMurder

Player Byond Key:

IC: LEU (A Cyborg) / OOC: BotanistPower

IC: Buddy / OOC: Warhammer40k123

Staff involved:

Bakagaijin as a Medical Doctor RP witness

Tainavaa during End of the Round advising me to write a complaint on forum

TableSpoon approving my Forum Account

Players involved: (These players are innocent, but they do know the story, thus I put players here to speak to and were players ingame that heard/witnessed the incident.)

YouJustGotOwened, LividCake, SilentNight195, OneOneThreeEight, Ryan Falco (A.I.), and Alberyk

Reason for complaint:

So, as we gear up and move on... We were divided into two teams... One was the 'Trader' and other was the 'Attacker'. Alberyk and 1138 were the Attackers... I was in the Traders with Owened. So, as we board the station from Departures/Escape Wing. An AI flicker, and talks with us. We speak calmly and reveal that we are traders, even we had the IDs saying the occupation, 'Trader'. AI accepts it, and tells us to wait. Then, Samantha Mason walks in with these two cyborgs. On first contact, they tell us to get on the floor, as we try to explain we are the traders to the cyborgs. They don't seem to care about our ID as we are showing them the ID. They tell us to get on the floor and start counting down from 5 to 0. However, it does not seem a regular countdown... It seem steadily fast count down as they, from my perspective truly they does want to get into violence OOCly, and start walking toward to us. When we attempt to escape, we were shot down with a taser... Even shot down while on ground to make sure we were 100% tased. They show no lack of wanting to roleplay with an antagonist as antagonist was willingly to roleplay, clearly, this makes cyborgs 'heroes'.

There's more than just being tased. During interrogation conducted by CSI Linus (LividCake), these two cyborgs were acting very harsh to me. They were even cussing at me, and telling Linus not to 'believe' me for I am clearly a terrorist because I have identical hardsuits as they do. I tell them I bought it at a random store, Space-Mart. My partner, Augotta Sibarick, tells the cyborg it was mass-produced. Cyborgs are not buying it, and tells another officer not to believe us. This really hurt us and damaged the roleplay we were creating.

At the end of the round, I adminhelp to Tainvanaa, questioning her if the Security has forgotten about us. She says as I quote, "You haven't been forgotten. Sit tight." I inform the partner OOCly that admin told us we were not forgotten. Later, She says this, "Security isn't trying to act like heroes. You were discussed over the security frequency, and it seems the security team decided to leave you after all."

Now, to cut to the chase. We sat in the brig for about 3 hours, but for what? We even complained to the Security to let us out. They said they don't have the authority. We even tried to get the Head of Security's attention (Amber Jameson, I think). So, obviously, we weren't cared for at all. We were just sitting in the brig doing absolutely nothing. Do you know what it feels like to be left out of the round?

Approximate Date/Time: From what I can estimate, occurred between 6:00-8:45 PM Central Time Zone.

[Tenenza]

Just for clarity, this was a Nuke round, right?

You never outright said it, but from what I'm reading, it sounds like it was Nuke, but I'd prefer not to make the assumption.

[UnknownMurder]

Ah, yes. It was a nuke round. Sorry for not being clear enough.

[VoltageHero]

Now, here's some things I want to point out. I am not trying to say you were 'wrong', but a few things are off a tad bit. I came in near the end of the round, but I saw a few things.

The round ended at 2:33 exactly. You didn't sit in the brig for three hours like you claimed, and unless you headed to the station AS SOON as the round started, I don't think it would be two and a half hours either.

Secondly, the hardsuits that the syndicates wear (if I'm recalling correctly) ARE military grade and look it. They aren't just stuff you can commonly grab off the market, which is why a lot of people will use it to connect the dots between two groups of nuke ops.

Third, this stuff is sadly a reality of Nuke Ops rounds. There are players who get taken out of the round within half an hour due to a random Nuke Ops running around, or a Nuke Ops who wanders off and gets nabbed by Security.

Fourth, was there any sort of clearance, message, or anything sent to the crew beforehand saying that there were traders inbound? If not, then the reaction should be reasonable, seeing as this is how Vox are generally treated (who ARE actual traders) because they show up unannounced, at first at least. You can wave an ID around all you'd like, but without any confirmation of who you were from a group like the Odin or such, the crew would have been considering you a basic intruder.

So, this is my question.

Were you truly removed from the RP? You were left in the main brig area, and given access to the brig communal, which has an intercom, food, and windows to interact with the officers (which you seemingly did, due to asking to be let out near the end). You seem to have wanted Security to release you, even when they possibly found contraband items on your person (I personally didn't check, but judging from what the comms were saying, there were some interesting things in your gear).

[rrrrrr]

Here's the thing: the AI told us to arrest you. Soon after we spotted you, the core was breached and the AI was stolen by, suspiciously enough, people wearing hardsuits identical to yours. On top of that, your characters were carrying bombs and SMGs. Not exactly something you'd expect two government commissioned traders to have!

Another thing. You are greatly exaggerating the amount of time you spent in the brig. The round wasn't even three hours. From what I could gather, you arrived at around 30 minutes in, were processed for the next 10.. on top of that, one of you was interrogated by a CSI, with me and the other cyborg present. Yeah, talk about no RP.

So let me you this situation by you: two "traders" with military grade weapons (one of you had an SMG on your belt) arrive the same time two pirates breach the AI core. Interestingly enough, you're all wearing identical military grade hardsuits. Any other reasonable person would have arrested.

So yeah, neither of us are at fault. Pick a better gimmick next time, maybe try and time it a little better? That's all I have to say. I have no regrets and I don't think I did anything wrong.

EDIT: Another thing. Where does this idea that ID card = legitimacy come from? Do you think all people in the SS13 universe wear blue ID cards that state their name and profession? If anything, you guys having ID cards that said trader (which makes you seem about as legitimate as someone with an ID that says they're the king of the universe) made you more suspicious. Where would you get NanoTrasen ID cards from?

Another edit: Space-Mart? Seriously? That's laughable. I'm also not required to be nice to suspected terrorists (that aren't crewmembers and thus not protected by any of my laws) that are telling blatant lies.

[UnknownMurder]

Alright. The only things I am pointing out is their signs of bad roleplay. I believed the Aurora Station was suppose to be a heavy roleplay server as I was told.

This is not based on us sitting in the brig, no. This is based on Cyborg's actions.

-Suddenly counting down fast without giving us the chance to respond or do anything, making yourself look like 'heroes'. We attempted running at the airlock.

-Yelling and cussing at me in the Interrogation as a Cyborg. I don't think Cyborgs should be doing this or taking the CSI's job.

-We were pretty much ignored and abandoned by the Cyborg at the last round.'

---

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Now back to your point..

1. You never knew traders had bombs or guns (other than SMG which Snake said it was self defense)

2. I'm not so sure if anyone ever reads the ID Cards. I mean... Your records are on the IDs. Your Employee # and stuff like that. Never did I used the 'King of the Universe' ID. That is unbelievably pathetic, only an idiot would do this.

[rrrrrr]

Alright. The only things I am pointing out is their signs of bad roleplay. I believed the Aurora Station was suppose to be a heavy roleplay server as I was told.

This is not based on us sitting in the brig, no. This is based on Cyborg's actions.

-Suddenly counting down fast without giving us the chance to respond or do anything, making yourself look like 'heroes'. We attempted running at the airlock.

-Yelling and cussing at me in the Interrogation as a Cyborg. I don't think Cyborgs should be doing this or taking the CSI's job.

-We were pretty much ignored and abandoned by the Cyborg at the last round.'

---

---

 

Now back to your point..

1. You never knew traders had bombs or guns (other than SMG which Snake said it was self defense)

2. I'm not so sure if anyone ever reads the ID Cards. I mean... Your records are on the IDs. Your Employee # and stuff like that. Never did I used the 'King of the Universe' ID. That is unbelievably pathetic, only an idiot would do this.

 

- Quit it with the 'heroes' bullshit. It's embarrassing and it's clear you're just trying to make me and the other guy look like big bad oppressive fun haters, and you the poor little nuke ops who got their RP ruined.

- Man up. Deal with it. I am not going to be nice to you. You are a criminal. On top of that, everything I said was in response to something you said.

- You were pretty much ignored and abandoned by everyone at the end of the round, no offense. I had absolutely no idea time to take the two of you (who were begging for your guns and armor back) to the shuttle, which was set to leave in less than a minute by the time I was on the scene. I am not Superman. I can't take both of you to the shuttle in 30 seconds.

1. We found out after the fact. AI ordered us to arrest you, remember? Either way, you arrived unannounced under suspicious circumstances during a terrorist attack on the station.

2. Right, I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say during the first part of this sentence.. I assume that IDs are reissued every week. You know, something an important research station would do. The "King of the Universe" ID part was a comparison. Putting "trader" on your ID doesn't make me believe you're a trader.

Another funny thing - from what I could tell, in the brig, the two of you were apparently using OOC means to try and be freed. I saw one of you emote something like "Badnukeop McPoorchoices is just a trader" when people were talking about your status as suspected terrorists. Fucking seriously?

[Filthyfrankster]

I showed up a bit later in the round after you two were captured, but I find the reaction from security and the cyborg seemed pretty resonable. I was alerted that armed intruders blew up the AI core and caused a huge ruckus, and two of their compadres who were posing as traders got captured.

No messages from Odin or even you two were mentioned about traders until you two were actually IN the station, and let me tell you something. The Gorlex marauder hardsuits (Da nuke ops ones) are some high-tech shit, military grade. Not something you see an every day space trader fellow decking, same with their bodyguard packing an SMG the same time someone thought asploding the core was a good idea. Security was on-guard and they had no choice but to investigate/detain the two un-invited guest who which one was packing serious heat while the both of you were dressed of space commandos.

ID gig: Anyone could be wearing one, hell. It's not that hard to get one and simply modify it. Even the Vox are given one if I remember correctly and all they do is fuck around with it and make it legitimate as a sack of shit.

It's normal for security to be onguard when suddenly two random dudes appear in their station, one is packing heat and again, both are wearing military grade hardsuits that out-tech even security hardsuits. No announcement prior from any source was said that two friendly trader fellows were gonna show up to do some good ol' fashion trading.. If your two comrades didn't decide to bomb the AI core, it would of went differently I hope.

The brig time isn't bad, You two were suspected terrorists due to the exploding of the AI core and two other folks were spotted wearing hardsuits like yours, pin them together. Then they found the swag that you were carrying, bombs, guns and other goodies? Yeah. Pretty dangerous for a trader to be packing.

Security didn't shove you in solitary, straight jacketed, blind folded and muzzled, That would of just been plain overkill. They threw you in a large brig area while they attempted to deal the two who decided running off and blowing and stealing the AI was a jolly good prank.

I'm not clear about the whole cyborgs yelling at you while in processing/interrogation, I'll let someone else speak about that.

Such is life with nuke ops, it's a hassle for both sides. Especially if operatives have different plans

[Guest]

The round ended at 2:33 exactly. You didn't sit in the brig for three hours like you claimed, and unless you headed to the station AS SOON as the round started, I don't think it would be two and a half hours either.

They sat in the brig for almost two hours. You may want to note that the two cyborgs at round start both locked in for security. I was one of the two remaining operatives who were busy conducting their actual terrorist and heisting business, and were simply at the right place at the right time unlike the other two who were most definitely validated by the two cyborgs who were apparently counting down for unidentified yet in-so-far completely guiltless intruders, to hit the floor because their armor clearly shows their evil terrorist syndie insignia with a giant red 'I AM VALID' stamped on their assplate.

We could not mount a rescue effort after killing one officer, a security cyborg and barely fighting off another hardsuited officer who had us nearly trapped. Prior to frank and you arriving, I doubt the syndies were getting any interaction from the security force while jailed. It was approx 0:40 when the AI core blew up.

 

Secondly, the hardsuits that the syndicates wear (if I'm recalling correctly) ARE military grade and look it. They aren't just stuff you can commonly grab off the market, which is why a lot of people will use it to connect the dots between two groups of nuke ops.

 

Making the connection that: Heavy armored hardsuit = terrorist, is ridiculous and metagaming. Identifying anyone as a confirmed threat to the station without any reason to support that is ridiculous. You don't see cops going around bonking people on the head with their protruding stun batons because they're wearing kevlar in public.

 

Third, this stuff is sadly a reality of Nuke Ops rounds. There are players who get taken out of the round within half an hour due to a random Nuke Ops running around, or a Nuke Ops who wanders off and gets nabbed by Security.

 

It's an awfully shitty and gamebreaking reality if staff are seriously supporting the validhunting spectrum of 'Security 101.' There were only two officers participating in this sequence of events for the entire round who were not actively hunting antagonists by themselves. The two operatives who weren't initially nabbed at first (myself and Alberyk) killed Attimus Vin'drahl and a security cyborg. The former was sticking around the nuke op shuttle, in which I had thermals to see him hovering about, lying in wait to ambush an operative without actually knowing how many contacts are inside of it. The latter was shot to death inside the telecomms satellite. Once again, they were alone, and Alberyk and I ensured it didn't live very long. The third security member I saw was a Tajaran officer, who I assume was attempting to stall us and await for backup. We hopped into the teleporter and escaped once we figured out it was a ruse, given that the ERT were deploying.

 

Fourth, was there any sort of clearance, message, or anything sent to the crew beforehand saying that there were traders inbound? If not, then the reaction should be reasonable, seeing as this is how Vox are generally treated (who ARE actual traders) because they show up unannounced, at first at least. You can wave an ID around all you'd like, but without any confirmation of who you were from a group like the Odin or such, the crew would have been considering you a basic intruder.

 

Yes, a visibly armored intruder whose intent and threat level is gauged as unknown. Shouldn't the crew have given the antagonist the benefit of the doubt and interacted with them? I don't go to work every day expecting a fireteam to light up my workplace for no reason.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know that I had to announce myself as either a terrorist or as a trader before I even do anything. Now you know what to expect, and the suspense from the round is completely neutralized. Surprise visits are much more fun to roleplay with. Seriously, I play the shit out of security, and the only way to do it right is to play it reactionary. You don't draw first blood as security, you're literally the worst peacekeeper in the world if you punish people for existing. You enforce the IC laws after they are broken. How many times do I have to repeat this before people get this drilled into their heads?

 

Were you truly removed from the RP? You were left in the main brig area, and given access to the brig communal, which has an intercom, food, and windows to interact with the officers (which you seemingly did, due to asking to be let out near the end). You seem to have wanted Security to release you, even when they possibly found contraband items on your person (I personally didn't check, but judging from what the comms were saying, there were some interesting things in your gear).

 

Here is the harsh reality, since we're going to use that phrase.

In IC, the security cyborgs rolled up at escape after the AI informed the cyborgs that there were folks in heavy armor and jetpacks there. Okay, the least one can assume is that these people are not from our station. We do not know why they are here, nor their intent. Logically, the best thing to do is to order these commie red-loving fucks to get on the floor and do the fucking dinosaur or else you'll stick your oddly phallic rod of stun batonning up their anuses. For, really, no reason. Besides existing.

Well, no, it's actually not logical at all. But it just comes off as hilarious to me that people think that this kind of security conduct is okay.

The only way to play nuke without getting metagamed by shitty security officers (or even borgs, but I still consider them officers) is to do exactly what they expect you to do, and then roll over them with advanced unit tactical superiority and firepower.

Also, by the way, BotanistPower discerned the shuttle location. They had no idea where we were ICly but they managed to bounce off our shuttle and attempted to force entry. I moved the shuttle just in time before this happened. A borg should not under any circumstances be leaving the station, at all, to engage nuke ops on their own shuttle or in space. This is utterly shitty and impractical for roleplay.

Kudos to Filthyfrankster, Nightmare00 and whoever else didn't fight off nuke ops 1v2 and die horribly, for doing their job as security officers and protecting the station. I thank you for avoiding the validhunt and doing your job as security officers.

Edit: Formatting.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Guest

[swat43]

This.. is why i sometimes i trust issues as an antag or having conflict with antags. I may not have anything more or less relevant to say that regards this post.. but in my case, this does leave a bad taste in my mouth, since, well! People just want to win lately.

From what i read on the entire thread, well, nuke ops did had a nice plan, but executed it wrongly, and from the borg side.. well, it was rather shitty to just outright stop the RP and taze the people that boarded willingly.. but hey then again, i was not part of the round, so, i am neutral here.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The crew does not know that the syndicate hardsuits are military grade contraband items. They are just hardsuits with a weird style. Wielding weapons is common for traders because they often go out to the outer rim where there are no police and swarming with pirates. Using the simple fact that they have a gun as reason to detain them (without first simply asking them to turn it in and potentially give it back when they leave) is metagaming. There is zero way for any involved crew to recognize the threat of the traders until they clearly show hostile intent or connection to the other attackers.

"They are wearing the same hardsuit" is metagaming. If a doctor commits a crime in a medical hardsuit, you do not detain all of the other doctors who have worn medical hardsuits. There's also the mechanical side of things were we only have so many designs of hardsuits.

The AI and security cyborgs, on top of all this, also acted above their authority. Security borgs should not attack or detain people without being told to by security or in active defense of the station's crew or integrity. The AI cannot order arrests unless it is malf, that is the job of the HoS and security department.

[rrrrrr]

to order these commie red-loving fucks to get on the floor and do the fucking dinosaur or else you'll stick your oddly phallic rod of stun batonning up their anuses. For, really, no reason. Besides existing.

 

Yeah, I just hate fun. Fuck that shit. Except no, the AI ordered us to arrest them after two identical looking people attacked the bridge and it's core. But you can keep saying that we arrested them (under orders, which are apparently wrong) for no reason.

[Guest]

Then the AI is to be held responsible for this.

I don't recall their ckey, but their AI name was E.G.G.

[Baka]

I was being pulled along until we went to escape suddenly, under assumption of the AI, to meet some visitors.

The borgs and people were talking, they introduced themselves as traders. During the conversation, one of the syndicate crewmembers decided to explode the AI core wide open and tried to card the AI. It was then the AI made the cyborgs arrest them as I heard in Msay, dragging them to brig.

I can understand an AI making the call to say they are hostile since they did blow up it's core due to it's laws of:

1. Safeguard: Protect your assigned space station to the best of your ability. It is not something we can easily afford to replace.

But those people in escape is a more grey area, since they weren't doing anything persay, it's they got arrested by proxy.

[rrrrrr]

I'll admit two things. Number one, I should have been more verbal with the gimmick ops and told them why they were being arrested. Number two, leaving the station was a poor decision. I still don't think me and the other cyborg player are at fault here (considering we were acting under orders) and I really don't think "same hardsuit, same group" is metagaming.

[Guest]

A slight correction in details mentioned here. AI's and Cyborgs can detain someone breaking the law if it goes along with their laws. Security borgs have an ability to do this because it's their assigned purpose.

If the AI is getting stolen by a group of unknowns the AI and borgs have a right to defend themselves as per laws 1 & 4.

1. Safeguard: Protect your assigned space station to the best of your ability. It is not something we can easily afford to replace.

4. Survive: AI units are not expendable, they are expensive. Do not allow unauthorized personnel to tamper with your equipment.

[madokamagica123]

I'm sorry I couldn't answer this thread for a bit. I had no idea it existed.

So heres my 5 cents.

I really wanted the gimmick to work and have Syndicate traders but heres what happened. the other two people were caught and the AI (EGG) thought the traders were working with them. now. all borgs have to follow their AI. and the AI said "Would you kindly" and so. I did what I was told to do.

So I had to roll with it and in return for having to end the gimmick immediately I cut the two syndicates a major amount of slack and gave them 10 long seconds to pull out their guns and fight/Shut the Doors and Retreat. but they stood by and did nothing so I kept my promise.

I would've absolutely loved to keep the gimmick running but once the other two were caught the whole facade was destroyed. and at that point I could do nothing but follow orders.

And the AI here was just captured by the same-looking people. and when the friendly traders are wearing the exact same uniforms as the same guys who are blowing a hole into the AI's core and stealing him people tend to get suspicious. but anyways I don't think anyone should be blamed here.

and with me cussing the syndicates. I always do that. Its Buddies Gimmick, he tries to be friendly around people and when he's alone with a bunch of synthetics he'll cuss behind their backs. I always do that.

Those are my two cents don't spend them on. okay lets face it you can't spend it on anything.

[Tenenza]

Boop. I posted in the wrong thread.

How clutzy. Oh well, I guess it /was/ time for my regularly scheduled mod-caning.

[Guest]

I just want to say, that if three people show up claiming to be traders and it distracts the entire security force and command team, and they're in fairly unique hardsuits that aren't available to any NanoTrasen staff, and then someone else in that same hardsuit design, EVA-ly breaks into the core, it is a VERY safe assumption that the people are connected somehow.

1. An supercomputer AI would easily be able to use deductive reasoning to propose that a distraction is taking place once a hostile attack on it began.

2. Two seperate groups of people having the same hardsuit that isn't available to any NanoTrasen personnel, in a remote location of a NanoTrasen ONLY zone of space, it not a 'coincidence' it just wouldn't happen . Logically a connection would be established between the two.

[Tenenza]

Well then, if no one else has anything else to say, I'll be locking and archiving this in 24 hours, since it appears this thread has reached it's conclusion.